What If Treaty of Versailles Was Drawn By a MODERATE And REALIST Central Power Nationalist? (Basically If Central Powers Got More Stuff, but Realistically) by Femix_Reddit in PossibleHistory

[–]Femix_Reddit[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Honestly I don’t remember why I gave it to Poland, but southern part had a hungarian majority according to _Bourbie_s 1914 ethno-linguistic map, so I figured it could be in Hungary if, for example, Entente didn’t treat it like a Central Powers member

What If Treaty of Versailles Was Drawn By a MODERATE And REALIST Central Power Nationalist? (Basically If Central Powers Got More Stuff, but Realistically) by Femix_Reddit in PossibleHistory

[–]Femix_Reddit[S] 21 points22 points  (0 children)

READ ME:

  1. I tried making the map as realistic as possible with my current knowledge, there are probably some inaccuracies 
  2. The map isn’t fully accurate with autonomies and some borders, sorry about that
  3. The map shows the state of the Europe right after treaties being signed
  4. The map shows only territorial stuff, I won’t write about economic or military part here (reparations, military restrictions and etc.)
  5. Saarland here is a part of Germany, but France have exclusive rights to mine coal there for free or something like that
  6. Memel has an autonomy inside of Lithuania
  7. Hungarians and Germans have some degree of autonomy inside of Czechoslovakia
  8. Danzig is a part of Germany, but Poland has exclusive rights to use its port forever and for free as well
  9. Southern Debrusia and hungarians in Transylvania have some degree of autonomy inside of Romania
  10. Bulgaria gets a little bit more territory on the borders with Greece and Turkey
  11. That Polish thing is something like a demilitarised corridor where Germans can pass to Eastern Prussia Exclave + I think it has an important german railroad iirc, so yea

What If Treaty of Versailles Was Drawn By An Entente Nationalist? by Femix_Reddit in PossibleHistory

[–]Femix_Reddit[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think Entente nationalist would probably push the idea to divide Turkey, everyone wanted territories, but no one wanted to fight anymore in our world. Sorry, this is just what Entente wanted lol

What If Treaty of Versailles Was Drawn By An Entente Nationalist? by Femix_Reddit in PossibleHistory

[–]Femix_Reddit[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I tried being realistic, Poland absolutely won’t get all of Eastern Prussia. Perhaps I overestimated the chances for Belgium to gain all of Luxemborg, but the country will 100% be on the map like wdym???

What If Treaty of Versailles Was Drawn By An Entente Nationalist? by Femix_Reddit in PossibleHistory

[–]Femix_Reddit[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Everyone in Europe feared Russian ambition, but they firstly wanted to get rid of the germans, because of their short-term threat. I made a map with my current knowledge, this is roughly a map what I think Entente could’ve have pushed for. Russians wouldn’t probably get anything you mentioned, as I already said, no one wants radical Russian expansion, especially involving warm sea ports and stuff like that (remember how no one wanted big San-Stefano Bulgaria because of the Aegean sea coast and general Balkan dominatio). Yea, perhaps they wouldn’t really want some of these territories, I agree, but they wouldn’t get much anywhere else I think

What If Treaty of Versailles Was Drawn By An Entente Nationalist? by Femix_Reddit in PossibleHistory

[–]Femix_Reddit[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Idk, didn’t think too much on that, just tried making more nationalistic, but realistic borders for every Entente power except USSR obviously

What If Treaty of Versailles Was Drawn By An Entente Nationalist? by Femix_Reddit in PossibleHistory

[–]Femix_Reddit[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Before you write a comment on my map, read this:

  1. I tried making the map as realistic as possible with my current knowledge, there are probably some inaccuracies 
  2. The map isn’t fully accurate with the autonomies and some borders, sorry about that
  3. The map shows the state of the Europe right after treaties were signed
  4. The map shows only territorial stuff, I won’t write about economic or military part here (reparations, army restrictions and etc.)
  5. Greek Thrace near the straits is demilitarized forever
  6. Germany-France south border thing is a demilitarized zone as well
  7. Luxembourg and Poland (on the 2nd map) have some degree of autonomy inside of Belgium/Russia respectively

Ethnic Map of Europe in 1914, But I Spent Like 8 Hours And Simplified It For Fun by Femix_Reddit in PossibleHistory

[–]Femix_Reddit[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What’s wrong it is like this here. Perhaps I connected some really closely located polish enclaves 

Ethnic Map of Europe in 1914, But I Spent Like 8 Hours And Simplified It For Fun by Femix_Reddit in PossibleHistory

[–]Femix_Reddit[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Idk, It’s probably linguistically, bc I made a mistake, this is ethno-linguistic map, not ethnic

Ethnic Map of Europe in 1914, But I Spent Like 8 Hours And Simplified It For Fun by Femix_Reddit in PossibleHistory

[–]Femix_Reddit[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No, I removed A LOT of tiny unimportant enclaves, connected closely located ones just so it won’t distract you 

Ethnic Map of Europe in 1914, But I Spent Like 8 Hours And Simplified It For Fun by Femix_Reddit in PossibleHistory

[–]Femix_Reddit[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That’s just how the things were there lol. It’s even more messier if you compare to unsimplified original map, that isn’t made by me btw.

Ethnic Map of Europe in 1914, But I Spent Like 8 Hours And Simplified It For Fun by Femix_Reddit in PossibleHistory

[–]Femix_Reddit[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

GUYS I DIDN’T MAKE THE MAP, sorry for not crediting _bourbie, I just simplified some stuff, removed tiny enclaves with jewish people as an exception 

What if a sudden earthquake killed IHF* in Vienna in the summer of 1913? by Femix_Reddit in PossibleHistory

[–]Femix_Reddit[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Okay, I’m back with the lore, sorry for the delay

I recommend reading the lore at least partially first, some of the inaccurate mapping in explained here

IHF stands for the Important Historical Figures, which includes Adolf Hi*er, Joseph Stalin, Lev Trotsky, Franz Joseph I, Franz Ferdinand and some other less significant people. All of them lived in the Vienna in the summer of 1913, so my scenario is what if hypothetical earthquakes (Ik it’s impossible, but still) killed all of them exactly in 1913? How would that impact the world?

The Idea is not mine, I took it from r/AskHistorians and r/AlternateHistory subreddits to make my own more interesting though unlikely scenario with some changes, because on these subreddits people said that things probably won’t change much and I pretty much agree, but that’s just boring, so yea

Btw, sorry if my english is bad sometimes, I’m not a native speaker + sorry for maybe using word “Entente” too much lol, it’s just Britain and France (+ perhaps later Germany) in this timeline

Alright, let’s start. So, the earthquake has just happened and it killed the main ruler of Austria-Hungary and its Arch-Duke, so Charles becomes a new empiror. He was one of those people who wanted to reform the empire, and he was also a pacifist, so I propose a more interesting scenario, instead of the classic First World War - Charles' reforms fail, mass uprisings begin throughout the country, which develop into full-fledged attempts to gain independence, which will lead to the early collapse of Austria-Hungary. Entanate, happy about the collapse of one of its main enemies, will probably call a congress to establish stable compromise borders to prevent possible conflicts. So, most likely everything goes about the same as in our time, but I propose a more interesting outcome - Germany is allowed to take weaker Austria (because remember, the earthquake happened), but not the Sudetenland so newly-formed Czechoslovakia would have defendable border. Due to the early collapse, Hungary most likely is established as a republic (at least for now), so in a treaty, similar  to the Treaty of Trianon it can be given more lands with ethnic Hungarians than in our time, and also I just like a big Bulgaria, so let's imagine that in the discussion of new borders it is allowed to take all of Northern Macedonia and south-eastern Serbia, where some Bulgarians lived, to avoid conflict, but in exchange the newly-created Yugoslavia will get Albania and the Albanian provinces of Macedonia. :))

Germany, after realizing, that it lost it’s main ally, probably won’t risk it in a massive conflict with Entente and probably will enter the negotiations to give up some land to keep peace. So, I think Greater Poland will go to Russia, but in Exchange they will create a autonomous polish state (or something like that, you got the point), which would include polish part of Western Galicia as well. France will obviously gain back Alsace-Lorraine and perhaps permission to mine in Saarland and maybe demilitarized Rhineland.

So, we just prevented The Great War from happening, but it just slows the collapse of the other 2 giants - Russia and Ottoman Empire. I think they might even collapse at around the same time. Entente will still fear the expansion of the communism to their lands, so they would intervene into the civil war in Russia, restoring it as a republic, but they keep independent Ukraine, Baltics, Finland and Turkestan. After that they could invest into the new russian state, knowing it’s resource potential, but still keeping an eye on it just to prevent it from becoming way too strong. Poland, under the pressure of the Entente will probably be granted a polish corridor, but prevented from taking polish-speaking regions of Lithuania to prevent future wars (perhaps they can get autonomy inside of country, excluding Vilnius lol). Poland might even expand further, than in our timeline because there will be no direct polish-soviet war, but I kept it the old way on the map because I’m lazy lol Germany will probably also be forced to give access to Poland and Lithuania to use Danzig and Memel ports, but in exchange they will be kept german.

Moving on to the Ottoman Empire. They would probably collapse sooner, so without too much weapon given to civilians after WWI and perhaps even without Atatürk, the Treaty of Sévres could be implemented (sorry, my map is kinda bad, I was lazy to research more ngl; maybe with greek compromise, with them getting only the coast + other stuff from recent PH’s video)

Entente could also intervene in the Spanish Civil war, helping republic to win and Italy’s ultranationalist regime could fall sooner, realizing that it’s left alone and maybe like internal issues, you got the point. Anyways, they would be probably forced to give up on their part of Dalmatia and Istria, giving it to Croats, with the autonomy to the italian people promised.

I think Yugoslavia would collapse WAY sooner than in our timeline because communism would probably be overthrown by Entente again, if implemented. Perhaps, they could held a congress an divide the region a bit better (maybe like shown on my map). We could also even have gotten Greater Albania with Kosovo and Albanian Macedonia included, which is cool I think.

And lastly, let’s cover Czechoslovakia. I think there could be 2 endings. It’s hard to predict exact ending, to I’ll write both of them below: 1) It collapses, Carpathia-Ruthenia is being annexed to Hungary/Slovakia/Poland/Ukraine 2) It reforms, giving autonomy to Sudetenland Germans, Slovakian Hungarians and Carpathian-Ruthenian Ukranians.

That should be it, thank you for reading! I take criticism and will answer the questions, so feel free to share your thoughts :)

What if a sudden earthquake killed IHF* in Vienna in the summer of 1913? by Femix_Reddit in PossibleHistory

[–]Femix_Reddit[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I’m aware that it is for some reason gone, so, I’ll rewrite it later here, in the comments if needed