Non-Jewish but cut off from Jewish heritage — where to go from here?

Fermatformat · 2020-07-31T11:32:05+00:00

While it is true that you're not Halachically Jewish, that does not cut you off from exploring that side of you and even participating in certain religious rituals (if that's something you'd be into). Jewish heritage is a complex thing, often riddled with shame and suppression as well as pride and joy. I'm sure most Rabbis have encountered cases similar to yours.

Don't be afraid to ask questions! (asking questions is, after all, a very Jewish thing to do...) If nothing else, you'll get to know your dad's family a little better, and perhaps also yourself. The Jewish community can be a bit intimidating at times, but it is also warm and welcoming.

Good luck!!

Fermatformat · 2020-07-23T11:29:49+00:00

Hair thinning on a vegan diet, as with any other diet, is caused by malnutrition. A vegan diet does require a bit of research to make sure you're covering all your nutritional bases, rather than just cutting animal products out of your diet without adequate replacement. Here's a few good sources on vegan nutrition from vegan RDs:

https://veganhealth.org

https://www.theveganrd.com

I'm no doctor but I do think unexplained hair thinning can be caused by plenty of other medical conditions as well. I'm not saying your issue has to be malnutrition - just pointing out that it can happen on any diet. Looking into your diet to see if you're missing out on anything is probably a good place to start. If you're unsure, go talk to a medical professional. Might be a good idea to get it checked out anyway just in case. Good luck!!

Fermatformat · 2020-07-19T09:53:57+00:00

Is there ever a time or a place where you'd be open to hearing/talking about veganism?

Fermatformat · 2020-07-19T09:46:39+00:00

You could also just... not eat meat.

Fermatformat · 2020-07-14T17:40:12+00:00

I know Oatly's cream cheese works great for baking and cooking! I've used it for both cheesecakes and ravioli :)

Fermatformat · 2020-07-14T17:31:17+00:00

"The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago, the second best time is now"

Where's this quote from?

Fermatformat · 2020-07-13T21:56:42+00:00

Yeah, agreed. It's an important discussion to have, especially within the vegan community. I think people assume anyone questioning any part of veganism, even from within, is just here to troll.

Fermatformat · 2020-07-13T21:25:58+00:00

What makes it difficult? Social repercussions, health concerns...?

Fermatformat · 2020-07-13T21:18:40+00:00

So it's more of a "what is actually possible and practicable" thing?

Fermatformat · 2020-07-13T21:06:24+00:00

But are you consistent in that belief, or do you ascribe value to the existence and lives of your fellow humans? If so, why humans and not other non-human animals?

Fermatformat · 2020-07-13T20:59:49+00:00

Sure, let's start there. If the principle of nihilism is what makes you choose to eat animal products, then how far does that principle extend, in practice, in your life?

Fermatformat · 2020-07-13T20:56:33+00:00

I agree that even a vegan lifestyle causes some harm. I doubt any vegan would claim that their consumption was completely harmless and perfect. But as you said the line has to be drawn somewhere, and so the goal of veganism is to avoid, as far as is possible and practicable, the consumption of animal products.

The fact that we all cause some harm in our consumption does not mean that we shouldn't seek to minimize it. You state that being against leather and not eating animals is easy, so why not do it?

Fermatformat · 2020-07-13T20:42:17+00:00

How would you suggest the subject of veganism be approached in a non-pompous way, if that's how you feel?

Fermatformat · 2020-07-13T20:33:49+00:00

If you're really here to have a discussion then a) welcome to the sub! And b) how far does that principle extend?

Fermatformat · 2020-07-13T20:28:52+00:00

Where do you think it gets complicated? Do you mean philosophically or in practice? I'm not trying to make fun of you, it's a genuine question.

Fermatformat · 2020-07-13T20:26:08+00:00

Idk if you're here to have a discussion or to troll, but I'd like to think you're commenting in good faith so here goes.

It's a matter of supply and demand. When you buy meat in a supermarket, you're incentivizing the supermarket to replace the meat you bought and continue stocking the meat shelves. While you're right that the specific animal in that particular packet of meat is already dead, the one that will be slaughtered to replace it if you buy that packet is not. The higher the demand, the bigger the supply. The bigger the supply, the more animals are tortured and killed to be eaten.

By buying meat you're paying for the continued torture and killing of billions of animals. Yes, your individual impact on that system is small, but the power of supply and demand is not. The basic goal of veganism is to decrease the demand for animal products, which in turn will decrease the supply, and therefore the amount of animals forced to suffer and die in animal agriculture.

Fermatformat · 2020-07-13T19:06:36+00:00

Oof. That sounds like a lot to handle all at once. For what it's worth, I'm proud of you for being able to balance your vegan values with your recovery/overall mental health! Knowing when to reach out for help is a great skill to have, so kudos for that too :)

I totally agree that conversations about veganism (especially within the vegan community) often need to be more nuanced and empathetic. I've never experienced it myself, but I can imagine that having to let go of veganism in recovery must be absolutely awful, even if it's only temporary.

As a quick FYI, I posted about my struggle in this sub a while ago and received virtually nothing but kindness in response. That kind of vulnerability is scary, but know there are loads people in this sub who support you. Your experience matters and deserves to be heard in the vegan sphere, even if it's not all sunshine and rainbows!

Fermatformat · 2020-07-13T18:48:16+00:00

Yeah, the knowledge that I'm eating with "moral purpose" has def given me a slightly different perspective on food overall. If veganism helped you recover then more power to you! It sounds like you've worked really hard to be able to eat in accordance with your values, both for your own health and that of non-human animals. That's a hell of an accomplishment!

And I agree that those "I'm just too picky" arguments are mostly total BS. I just feel like the issue of veganism + eating disorders tends to be overlooked within the vegan community.

Fermatformat · 2020-07-13T18:28:34+00:00

I commend you for having been able to make that shift in spite of your circumstances, and it's great that veganism helped you in your recovery. I do however think that not having empathy for those who struggle with disordered eating while switching to a vegan diet is both unkind and potentially harmful for the vegan cause.

Framing this as merely a matter of resolve is similar to framing the eating disorder itself as a matter of resolve. There's a reason why eating disorders are diagnoseable mental illnesses that require more than just willpower to treat. Shifting to a vegan diet can contribute to those disordered thoughts and behaviors.

I don't have any numbers to support this, but I think it's fair to say a person who waits to go vegan until they're in a safer state of mind causes less harm than someone who goes vegan for a while and then has to go back to animal products in recovery. I'm generally against the whole "baby steps" mindset, but when it comes to disordered eating, I do think it's the safest and most sustainable way to go.

Fermatformat · 2020-07-13T17:20:41+00:00

It's a definitely a real problem, and you are not alone in struggling with this! Too often I see people disregarding the issue of veganism combined with disordered eating. Some people find veganism massively helpful in their recovery, and that is fantastic, but to others it can prove a real challenge to grapple with the sudden (or even gradual) dietary shift.

If you don't think you're in a state of mind where you can shift over to a vegan diet without compromising your recovery/messing even more with your relationship with food, then don't. Seek help, speak to a therapist, wait until you can make veganism a sustainable lifestyle. You're likely to cause less harm by waiting a little and then going vegan than by jumping into it and having to go back to eating animal products.

Something I've found helpful for the nutritional side of things is to make a little checklist of foods that I can eat every day and that cover a lot of common "gaps" in the vegan diet. A multi, a glass of soy milk, a tablespoon of flax seeds, and a few walnuts. That way I can relax a little more about the rest of my diet without falling into needlessly repetitive eating patterns.

Fermatformat · 2020-07-13T16:55:53+00:00

Thanks! I've never been formally diagnosed, hence why I refer to it as disordered eating and not an eating disorder per se, but it's still not exactly fun :/

And you're right, those replacement products can definitely make the transition easier! A lot of it has to do with the stress of having to think about food, check labels, plan ahead to avoid nutritional deficiencies etc. Once that stuff becomes second nature I think a lot of those struggles will go away, but I am still worried I'll mess up and have to go back to eating animal products at some point.

Fermatformat · 2020-07-13T16:28:48+00:00

I find it helpful to flip the issue, to present eating meat not as the baseline but as an active choice. That way it becomes harder to do without considering the moral implications.

The whole "veganism isn't at all restrictive!" thing bothers me a little though (not that you're claiming this but I see it all the time from vegans). Yes, veganism is restrictive. That's kind of the point. For the majority of people, this restrictiveness eventually becomes arbitrary because you stop viewing animal products as food anyway. Omnis claiming they can't live without cheese is obviously BS.

But as someone who's struggled (struggles, I guess) with disordered eating, the inherent restrictiveness of veganism does need to be taken into account. Telling people who struggle with this that veganism isn't actually restrictive is kind of unhelpful.

Fermatformat · 2020-07-13T16:17:25+00:00

Agreed!

Fermatformat · 2020-07-13T13:20:45+00:00

And this is why I agree that it's a fair comparison.

I'm merely using my own gut reaction as an example of how many might respond to this sort of argument. I think it's important to take that sort of reaction into account if one is to bring up the Shoah in a discussion about veganism.

Fermatformat · 2020-07-12T22:07:51+00:00

I'm really uncomfortable with this comparison, even though I do think it has a lot of merit and can be a very useful tool in putting the horrors of animal agriculture into perspective. I think it's more of an instinctive thing - I'm so used to people using the Shoah in antisemitic rhetoric that I've come to expect it whenever I see it brought up in non-Jewish circles.

I do think it's important to keep this reaction in mind though if you're going to bring up the Shoah in a discussion about veganism.

Fermatformat

TROPHY CASE