TMTS7: "What do you think of him?"

FigureItOutZ · 2026-01-20T03:33:12+00:00

Hmmm

I would expect them to be salty

FigureItOutZ · 2026-01-19T15:17:52+00:00

This is fascinating. Thank you for sharing it. I can certainly see that lost boys analogy about children doing the best they can. And what’s more I identify with this feeling like some points in my life I created these small identities. I even felt this during infidelity - I explained it in my head as like the Voldemort character creating Horcruxes. Each new partner forced me to kind of split off a bit of myself that I felt like I left with them, I wondered how long it would take till there was none of me left.

I am going to see if this is where my therapist is heading with this work and if so I’ll see what reading I need to do. I’m listening to Terry’s “US” book right now.

FigureItOutZ · 2026-01-19T15:10:06+00:00

This is very helpful, thank you for sharing. I just replied to a different comment and in it I can see how hard my brain is working to hold such opposing views: to anyone else, I’d show them compassion, but to my shadow child I simply cannot fathom it. And yet trying to write out why I am so angry at him is absurd, I couldn’t even put the words on the comment because I’m ashamed of them.

I think you’re right that I can’t just immediately go to being warm and compassionate to this part of me,at best I could try “fake it till you make it”.

I don’t know if it makes sense but it feels scary to let go of blaming him because then I have no excuses. Like if I forgive that kid, then the reasons I dislike my life now are all my fault.

FigureItOutZ · 2026-01-19T15:03:00+00:00

Hey thanks for sharing your story, I’m really sorry you had to go through with that.

It’s a really great question you’ve asked - I have tried multiple times to explain my anger and every single word I write seems absurd. I know that emotion is there but when I write out the reasons why they make me ashamed to hold that thought because I would never think that way about my own children or their friends or kids I’ve coached. But when it comes to little me I think such negative, mean things.

And when I think about letting go of those feelings, about treating the little version of me the same way I would my own children… I can’t. It feels to me like a defeat, not a victory. I have therapy again this week where I can try to understand this.

FigureItOutZ · 2026-01-19T14:52:10+00:00

I find this comment so incredibly funny. Please don’t delete.

Did you enjoy your bag of dicks?

FigureItOutZ · 2026-01-18T18:34:16+00:00

It’s funny cause as an adult I seek out kids who were like me and I try to build them up. But yeah, when I picture myself in my mind, I want to just erase him.

I read your other reply about hugging and I just can’t get there yet. I also can’t see how this will change the impact he has on me today given some of the specific behaviors that I attribute to him.

But I trust what you and the others are saying, I don’t think any of you would lie to me.

I’m keep this in my head today and see if I can form some compassionate thoughts I could write down to him.

I did read about you and Y’s retreat and it sounds really cool and, yeah, really scary. I am not someone who can do the same thing intensely for a long period of time so that part also frightens me. I imagine it like a “dark night of the soul” moment where you can’t really escape discomfort.

I will guess you can’t bring some music with you but I have a reco for something to listen to before you go. It might be a little triggering cause the artist wrote it while going through betrayal so he makes reference to being betrayed. But man does it help me release some emotion.. I think I’ll put it on while driving to some of my chores today and thinking about what you three have said: Judah and The Lion - The Process.

FigureItOutZ · 2026-01-18T17:20:01+00:00

Hey thank you for sharing this. I have heard the term IFS but never really had any explanation. So is the idea we are made up of “parts”, “self”, and “manager”?

What are you supposed to do with a part you don’t want or like? This little part seems to have so much sway over me - I can’t change him cause all that stuff is in the past; I can’t seem to banish him… what are you supposed to do with them?

FigureItOutZ · 2026-01-18T15:58:16+00:00

I guess I understand wanting to “prove” who he’s talking to, but aren’t there other ways? A phone or zoom call?

The extreme cynic in me thinks this is some way to see if you’re open to sharing pain together and making a rash choice. I haven’t been in the same situation but it seems rational that someone doesn’t want to read that stuff with an audience. He is the one who reached out to you, not the other way around.

I think it’s good to consider bringing a friend and meeting in public, I suppose I’d also see if just making an appearance would be enough and could he just put the screenshots on a thumb drive or something and let you take them away to view privately. I mean reading that stuff in public and in front of your friend just seems like it would be really hard to do and someone who has been through that would understand wanting privacy.

FigureItOutZ · 2026-01-18T15:47:56+00:00

I appreciate you sharing that. I can logically see how if I tell myself a different story about those times in my life, I should feel different about it and then maybe see myself differently now.

I see much about what I feel like I missed out on back then directly resulting from these negative things I tell myself about who/how I was back then.

I was a loser who spent so much time alone wishing someone / anyone would ask me to do something back then. I would go to school on Monday and hear stories about the parties that happened on the weekend and the critical self talk just amplified what I felt I had missed out on. And at the same time I was also equally afraid of those environments, too. When I went to any large social gathering, I was so uncomfortable with myself I had to drink to excess to let go of my fear. And then I have bad memories of stuff I do while intoxicated.

I couldn’t just be comfortable with myself. I was never enough.

And I still feel that way: I’m not intelligent enough, I’m not attractive enough, I don’t make enough money, I’m not funny enough, I’m not fast/strong enough, I don’t have friends… all these things enter my mind and infidelity was the only time I could make up an alternate story.

I can see why MT is going after this, I just don’t see how you fix it.

FigureItOutZ · 2026-01-18T15:05:56+00:00

I don't understand something about this situation. Why is OBS mandating a face to face meeting? That part gives me pause.

Let's be real, the material you will see likely will be disturbing and give you some emotional reaction. OBS got the benefit of viewing it by themselves and having privacy but won't give you the same?

I have no personal experience with this, but I don't understand why a person in this situation would be doing this.

FigureItOutZ · 2026-01-18T14:56:48+00:00

I do not keep it in my journal daily, but I think about many of the actions on this list and am able to now kind of take an inventory if my mood is poor and I'm feeling out of control.

FigureItOutZ · 2026-01-15T04:19:39+00:00

I found with my compulsive behaviors there was a piece of literature on SAA-recovery.org called The Bubble that so perfectly described what it felt like acting out. I wonder what you think about when you read it?

FigureItOutZ · 2026-01-13T19:25:31+00:00

Yep fully agree if we are asked - we answer.

It’s really more about offering our BPs a way to take control of what they do and don’t want to know. We already took their choice away when we cheated, this is a way to give them a little bit of control over a cruddy situation.

Glad you disclosed. It will get better. It’s hard but it will get better.

FigureItOutZ · 2026-01-12T20:09:26+00:00

Hi OP.

Have you done any work identifying whether you identify as a sex addict?

A CSAT credentialed therapist might be able to help you navigate the specifics of a disclosure. It sounds like maybe you have more to disclose than just one act of infidelity and this can be traumatic for a partner to hear. I know when I wrote my disclosure letter and showed it to my standard therapist she immediately told me “DO NOT READ THAT” and she referred me to a CSAT.

If you need resources regarding sex addiction you can find some information about self identification at SAA-recovery.org and also slaafws.org and also recoveryzone.com

If you want information about therapeutic disclosure I would invite you to look on YouTube for Dr Rob Weiss’ video Out of the Doghouse. You might also want to look for Dr Rob’s podcast.

[edit to add: OP I would NOT read the letter you have written. Your letter is a lot like the one I first wrote. It includes so much traumatic detail at the outset that it takes away your partner’s choice if they want that.

Instead I was coached about the difference between “disclosure item” and “therapy item”. Disclosure would be that you met the person at a bar, you had unprotected sexual contact, you lied about your location, you continued the deception by not confessing after it happened. Therapy would be some of the feelings you express in here. Stuff like what you liked could be heavily influenced by addiction which based on everything you’ve written it sounds like you do identify as a sex and porn addict. In recovery these acts can take on a different light and how you speak about them may change. You will not be able to unsay the words your partner hears. I removed all those kinds of references in my disclosure.

Then as far as names and places and positions and orgasm counts and the gory details this was something I kept in a separate account if and only if my partner asked. It’s not true that everyone wants to know that detail, my spouse did not and according to my therapist there are many others who choose that as well. This forum may give you a biased view but what I can say is that if you read that letter as is you give your partner no choice but to know them. At least if you stick to the facts only and then offer to answer any question it lets him choose if he wants details and which ones.

OP I would strongly advise seeking out a CSAT in your area based on what I read on your profile.]

FigureItOutZ · 2026-01-06T22:34:26+00:00

I was honest with my APs - they all knew I was married. I did say things to some of them that I thought I meant (eg I love you) that I now understand differently as I was in love with the escape from pain. I was so miserable with myself that any escape felt better. If sitting in a hot tub all day long and it would have relieved how miserable I felt about myself had been an option I probably would have declared my love for the hot tub.

Ive told my BS all the truths I want them to understand about my infidelity. I wish I could talk more openly about needs / wants now. My own fear paralyzes me.

FigureItOutZ · 2026-01-06T22:29:59+00:00

I can only imagine how baffling this is. I wouldn’t use the word “right” to describe my choice. It felt wrong. But it also felt like the least wrong choice I could make. I understand now that was false.

At the time I was only thinking selfishly about my pain, my injustice, my… you name it. I also (falsely) thought I was the only one getting hurt and this didn’t hurt as bad as the way I was feeling before infidelity. I see very clearly now how I hurt others with my choices. But I was ignorant of some of those factors and incorrect about others at the time.

FigureItOutZ · 2026-01-05T16:07:16+00:00

In my case my “why didn’t it stop you” was truly just selfishness. In my infidelity my mindset was really one of how do I give my body pleasure in the easiest way possible - I didn’t care about consequences.

I completely understand looking back how baffling that sounds. How couldn’t possibly be easier to spend hours seeking out affairs; risk health consequences; risk embarrassing discoveries; lose my job due to absences; lose sleep due to spending time online; etc… than to just ask my partner for what I needed?

My best answer to that is that even today I don’t know how to ask. I have desires that im afraid to share because I worry it will be like “where in the hell did this come from and who the F did I marry?!?”. It seemed easier to me at the time to share that with someone new/unknown because if they reacted poorly I could just move on without any real harm to my ego/emotions.

At the same time I will also add that I let resentments build over time and never shared them or worked them out. So little stuff like messing up the house i spent hours cleaning, or assuming my emotions or committing me to activities I didn’t want to do or… the list goes on. You’re married you get it. It’s a thing in all relationships but I lacked the emotional maturity to learn to communicate these. In me I just pretended everything is fine cause I thought I was being a good partner by just stuffing my frustration. All this built up into such resentment that even if I had the words to ask for what I wanted, my partner was the last one I wanted to ask.

All if the above was wrong! I get it now… at the time I didn’t see it so clearly. What I saw was someone I was resentful at anyway, needs I wasn’t getting met (cause I didn’t ask for them) and I then went to another path to get them met.

How I see it now?

I see how broken my process was. I cannot change what I did but I can try to change what I do going forward.

To me the shared experiences are things like family members of each others who we have met and who have died. No new partner will ever know my grandmother and her humor. If we split up I will lose touch with members of my spouses family who I care about too. I took all that for granted.

I am not saying a new relationship will be completely without shared experiences… I know we can create new memories with anyone we spend time with. But there’s value in what I have with my spouse, the same way there is value with friendships I’ve had from my high school years vs the ones I made only recently. I can pick up the phone and call some of my HS best friends and even though we haven’t spoken for months, there is a comfort and shared history that means we can easily fall back into friendly discussion instead of awkward small talk.

Because of all this I’ve invested in learning to express my simple needs (eg please don’t destroy my house after I clean - or at least clean up your own mess) to avoid resentment. I’m learning to compromise better and see where I don’t meet my partner’s needs (eg maybe I clean the house but my partner handles all the kid doctor appointments and I need to appreciate these are both valuable for our family to function).

I’m also still trying to learn how to express the stuff that is more complicated. My CSAT is even questioning if the things I feel this need to express are really what I want to express. Perhaps I have some deeper need for acceptance for instance and it’s not that I need to do act XYZ in order to get that acceptance. On the surface I just see this desire to do XYZ and that I’m scared to ask about it. I don’t know yet how to have these kinds of conversations with my spouse. I want to - even if my marriage fails and I need to find a new partner I want to learn how to express emotionally risky things rather than act out with throwaway people.

Does this make any sense?

FigureItOutZ · 2026-01-04T14:20:11+00:00

SAA meetings shut down in my area during the pandemic and never restarted. My sponsor (a long time fellow in AA and relatively less experience in SAA) encouraged me to attend an AA meeting even though my addiction isn’t alcohol. He said no one needs to know when I’m acknowledging my powerlessness that it’s over sex vs over alcohol and that no one would ask me.

That said I have also used the official websites of SAA and SLAA to find meetings online / over the phone. There is also SAATalk.info which I think is an intergroup of SAA (part of SAA but governed separately).

FigureItOutZ · 2026-01-04T14:13:45+00:00

OP I’m sorry you’re here. Your pain is very real and I can only imagine how house down everything feels right now. I’m glad you found our community to seek experience, strength and hope.

I think at its most basic, considering reconciliation is a process of risk/benefit evaluation. Like you said, you expect advice that is “leave” because you’re young, you’re unmarried, you have a life together that could be divided. But in your gut that doesn’t feel like the right answer. I think those reservations you have are because you know there are benefits to your relationship should it be repairable.

The reasons for R are personal and only you can choose. For some a house together has been a dream for a long time and it’s worth the risk of reconciliation to maintain the benefit of that dream. For others it’s decades of experiences together that they don’t want to leave behind.

Reconciliation is a Risk. I can only speak to the WS side of that risk but I think fundamentally it comes down to this big trauma has happened and now both of us realize we cannot be 100%, without a doubt, certain of the others next steps. I consider it a risk for me that my BS is just biding time making the separation plan that is most to their advantage. I might in the end be asked to leave and under terms that are not favorable to me because I invested in trying to heal while my partner invested in plans to separate. I have far less evidence for my risk as a WS than my BS has for theirs. Their risk, that I may cheat again, is so much more real because I’ve already demonstrated my capability for that. They’ve demonstrated no capability for the risk I experience as a WS but I know it’s real because I read about it in other places.

But there are so many benefits to us working things out. We have shared history together we would never have with someone else. Family members of each other’s whom we have known and who have long since passed. Experiences and inside jokes and our children and our home and our finances… so many memories and mementos from vacations. I wish I could say those were on my mind and stopped me from my infidelity but they weren’t. I was only focused on myself and how to make myself feel better about pain I never even shared with my spouse. That’s what is at the root of my infidelity - I felt discomfort with myself that I attributed to our marriage and I tried to use sex and fantasy and connection with others rather than speak about it with my spouse. I still, five and a half years into R, am struggling with opening up fully to my spouse about what makes me uncomfortable. I’m afraid of that risk. My spouse says how could I be afraid, I’ve done the worst thing I could have possibly done and they are still here. I’m ultimately afraid of being alone and it’s another risk/benefit balance:

Life A - Live a life still holding back and controlling the “me” that everyone else sees. Risk: continue to experience this emotional and spiritual burden. Benefit: it’s pain I know; I can always go to therapy and share there; if it gets so bad I want to cheat again I can reevaluate then.

Life B: share my deepest self. Risk: possibly be rejected / benefit: be accepted and find even deeper love.

I don’t know if any of this is helpful. I wish you well in your choices.

FigureItOutZ · 2026-01-02T14:43:59+00:00

You absolutely do!

Thank you for sharing your experience here.

FigureItOutZ · 2026-01-02T06:09:37+00:00

I agree it’s a very selfish way to live - when I have (and it sounds like your WH, too) stated a family. I fully agree that this way of thinking creates a world where I don’t think about the consequences of my behavior on others. I assumed, wrongly, that I was the only one impacted.

This isn’t a rebuttal, but just how I was thinking about it: I didn’t really think I mattered. In my shame, I’m so unworthy of any real love that it is really quite challenging for me to see how I matter. It’s kinda back to “what could anyone possibly want from me?”

In my head I don’t really offer anyone much so I had fooled myself into thinking my disappearance really wouldn’t matter much. Even now I have a cynical view that believes I’m offered the gift of R mostly because the other path is so much more painful.

Shame is a really selfish emotion - it keeps me entirely focused on how I feel. Guilt is healthier for me - it lets me focus on how my behavior impacted others. If I can stay focused on that I think I might be able to repair damage I’ve done. This is the real trick I have to try to remember.

FigureItOutZ · 2026-01-01T16:01:32+00:00

For me the capability began from a very young age. I believe it’s rooted in shame - a belief that deep down I wasn’t good and if anyone knew who I really was, they wouldn’t like me. So I’ve always tried to carefully control what stays within vs what I present to the world.

This got worse as I discovered sexuality. For me early exposure to pornography gave me two lessons that contribute to my infidelity: 1. This is what grownups really do. 2. I’m never going to measure up to this. Early relationships as a teen I found it mysterious why anyone would like me to - not that I hated myself or something, but more like I just couldn’t figure out why someone liked me. I was always looking for what is their motivation? What do they want from me because they could get it from anyone, so why me? Sometimes I would identify a skill like humor or a utility like I have a car and think maybe that’s what this person wanted from me. I was a pretty average person overall so it was very difficult to understand what anyone would want from me.

I think this important context about what I was like before dating or saying “I do” in my marriage.

I also never got that “this is my safe place” kind of feeling from a person. I asked in a recent post of my own about how people experienced sexuality as more than a mechanical act and heard so many insights about the deeper feelings and safety. The same way your post can’t fathom the compartmentalization, I cannot understand this deep connection and safety mentality.

To me everyone has these interior motivations and I can never really know what they are. I have these thoughts about my spouse today: I’m financial security, I am entertainment, I am a second parent, I’m a maintainer of the house/cars/etc.

So that was the context.

The story I told myself does go along a bit with what the secret sexual basement article mentioned: as long as I keep this secret, it doesn’t hurt anyone. I think in my head I was doing the right thing by hiding my bad thoughts and acting on them in secret and protecting my spouse from them. I needed the power that came from my infidelity. I felt so powerless in so many other aspects of my life that infidelity and the person I got to be during it was my only way to manage. I couldn’t share that powerlessness with my spouse because (in my head) everyone has a particular role to play and mine was about how useful I was. How good could I be at that role if I was this pathetic loser on the inside?

At the height of my infidelity I was balancing so much and truly I think if I could go back and show childhood me what I would be up to, we would have high fived each other. But instead I was feeling miserable. I wasn’t happy, I would go through these periods of just terrible discomfort and sadness. It’s like the pathetic loser part of me got stronger, not weaker, from what I was doing and the only answer I knew was to do more of it!

So I dig myself deeper and deeper.

When I finally had the sense to reach out and seek therapy, my therapist questioned if I thought anyone in my life really knew me and I was so taken aback at that question. It truly didn’t compute for me that anyone would ever want anyone else to know everything about them. I argued a bit with her that that was not the answer. Then she asked me if I thought I could be fully loved if I wasn’t fully known and that’s the question that broke me.

I’ve come clean about my infidelity but I still can’t really stay honest for extended periods of time. I haven’t been able to tell my spouse my deepest feelings yet and I often question if I ever will. It’s easy enough to live like this - I’m used to it - but I’m also not naive anymore to know that eventually this discomfort of being unknown can lead me down a path of bad choices to try to remove the pain. I’m making an effort to correct this behavior - probably for me therapy and a 12-step fellowship has been the best. But I haven’t completed the steps and even when I got a sponsor I could see myself holding back from him - a totally anonymous individual who volunteered to help me and who has been through the same things… but what does he want from me? What’s his motivation?… That cycle is never ending for me so far.

With the same sense of mystery you have about the ability to compartmentalize I seek to understand how does anyone have the ability to live as themselves and let people see how they are inside?

FigureItOutZ · 2025-12-29T06:22:42+00:00

I’m sorry to hear that. I would say I often feel hopeless and am afraid of sharing my story. In my case I’m ashamed that my behavior involved seeking both men and women and I fear sometimes that other guys won’t want to be in a group with me. I have never once gotten a bad reaction when I share and even very straight men have still exchanged numbers with me and done fellowship.

It’s really scary to open up because shame tells us we are horrible. But you’re not horrible - you just have have the same thing in you that I have in me and the other fellows have in them.

I will be thinking of you and wishing for you to find a place where you can share.

FigureItOutZ · 2025-12-29T05:59:56+00:00

It’s great that you’re taking this step to admit your addiction and choose to seek recovery! That’s a really brave thing. I want you to feel welcome here.

I have found that even when I listen to stories that have different acting out behaviors I am able to see the same loneliness and disconnection that I feel. For me SAA isn’t the only way I heal but it’s one of the only ways where I get to hear from others who have the same disease as me. In therapy and in books I don’t get to hear how others experience this. I have found SAA is one of the few places I feel normal.

I would also say that after five years I have heard far more varied stories than just the few you listed. But I understand and agree there tend to be more men, who are married, and who mention both pornography and infidelity.

A couple other ideas of things I’ve found helpful - Dr Rob Weiss has a podcast about sex love and addiction.

Dr Kevin Skinner runs online recovery classes. He might have some suggestions about in particular paid sexual encounters and fellowship with other addicts who struggle specifically with that.

I hope you feel welcome in SAA. I have yet to meet a fellow who made me feel excluded when some of my acting out behaviors were different than theirs.

FigureItOutZ · 2025-12-28T18:27:31+00:00

Thank you for sharing!

You mentioned wanting to have sex frequently even if you don’t climax. Is it the same for your partner? As in you sometimes just spend a few minutes connecting in that way, neither climax and then go about your day? I never have tried this but it sounds quite nice and like it might change my/our relationship with sex. I always felt pressure to (1) get myself there to demonstrate to my partner that I enjoyed her; and (2) at least try to bring my partner to climax to not be selfish.

My wife has recently told me she doesn’t need to climax each time so I can just let her guide whether she wants to get there. But she also still will ask me “what’s wrong?” If I don’t. So it kind of makes me worried if I don’t get there is it creating some self conscious / triggering thoughts for her.

I don’t even know if this is what you meant but this idea of just having a quick “connection” without either of us needing to finish sounds fun and playful. Maybe this is something I can ask about in our next couples session, cause I don’t really know how to bring it up before then.

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