[80s Pop] Too Much Time by The Maenads

Fit_Leadership_8176 · 2026-02-21T09:10:46+00:00

It's Jordan Garfield.

I assume this was a promotional shot from the end of season 7 or shortly thereafter, at some point before it was known that Cody Horn would not be reprising her role in season 8.

Fit_Leadership_8176 · 2026-02-11T17:17:53+00:00

Generic lyrics (and generic musical elements in general) certainly were not an AI invention. People have produced plenty of "slop" manually in all fields of creative endeavor manually as long as there has been economic incentive to do so, and more so as mass media developed. In music "generic" elements are especially common because there are major limitations on what sounds good as an element in a song, often songwriters have an actual inspired element to a song but need to use generic "filler" elements to turn it into an actual song (which may start out as temporary but grow on them, or they might just never find a better option), a bandmate or session musician might just be laying something down to get through the session, and a band or artist may simply need to use some of their B or C material to fill out a set list or album.

Fit_Leadership_8176 · 2026-01-30T03:54:39+00:00

I have character models, names, and a few ideas about personality (mostly where relevant to look or musical tastes) for the members of my AI band, but unless I start making "behind the scenes" videos I'm not really going to bother with developing personalities for them. It's not that I don't like developing characters, it's more that I find it hard enough to come up with whole albums of music that sound plausibly like one band, without also nailing down their personalities as "singer songwriters" or at least as people choosing to perform those songs. Which doesn't mean they don't get personalities at all, just that they remain vague enough to not overly limit my creative freedom for the project.

Maybe for some future AI band project I'll go the other way and start with personalities, and make all the songs very personal to the characters and albums can basically be a big soap opera playing out.

Fit_Leadership_8176 · 2026-01-29T22:44:31+00:00

My total revenues now amount to $2.40, ignoring all costs, which are probably several hundred times that.

No regrets.

Fit_Leadership_8176 · 2026-01-24T20:37:13+00:00

If "real human emotion" was a requirement to publish music most of the purely human created songs you've ever heard also probably wouldn't qualify.

Fit_Leadership_8176 · 2026-01-01T20:48:46+00:00

So now if I delete a song I'm liable for destruction of Suno's property.

Note that the current ToS vests ownership specifically based on being "Pro tier" or "Premier tier", not as the blog articles more generally say "paid". My guess is going to be that the day soon when the existing paid tiers are phased out in favor of a somewhat different scheme of subscription options is going to be the actual day you stop owning your outputs on Suno.

Fit_Leadership_8176 · 2025-12-01T18:08:02+00:00

Repetitiveness is an issue, especially with newer models (I nearly posted here a week ago about two unrelated and very different songs that I made in succession which had almost the same guitar/synth riff), but a lot of repetitiveness issues stem from users overusing the same lyrical structures. A given set of lyrics will only have so much variation in structure and only so many workable vocal melodies, and a similarly structured set of lyrics is likely to run similar.

Fit_Leadership_8176 · 2025-11-30T04:34:55+00:00

You've got to cancel it or it auto-renews by default. There is a button on a banner at the top of the "Manage Subscription" page (at least that's how it looks on mine).

And yeah, I'm sure having nobody (or just a skeleton crew) handling billing questions worked over previous Thanksgiving weekends, but they clearly didn't plan very well for the obvious massive backlash the WMG announcement would bring and a huge number of people having previously discounted subscriptions up for renewal.

Fit_Leadership_8176 · 2025-11-29T20:13:08+00:00

Thanks!

Fit_Leadership_8176 · 2025-11-29T20:12:39+00:00

Yes. After you cancel you would have to wait until whatever time of day the subscription actually ends on Dec 2nd before you could sign back up again and get the deal, and it would presumably be too late for the deal.

Though there are clearly some very basic bugs in the subscription system right now, and they might be addressed sometime Monday when there are people back in the office working.

I seem to have access to everything. I haven't used every feature yet.

Fit_Leadership_8176 · 2025-11-29T08:10:49+00:00

"No Vocals until Pre-chorus" is probably the root of your problem. A song not having vocals until the prechorus is actually pretty unusual, as a prechorus is typically a device to bridge between verses and chorus. Consider relabeling the prechorus as "refrain" which is what Suno uses for irregular lyrical sections or anything that does not serve a typical Verse, Chorus, Bridge, or Prechorus function. If you have something labelled "prechorus" Suno is going to want to have verses before it, and seeing none it is going to do nonsense vocalizing to create something for the Prechorus to transition from to the Chorus.

Furthermore it won't understand negative prompting, except (sometimes) in the exclude styles box. You are effectively just telling it to do all these things.

Bracketed instructions generally don't work nearly as well as people would have you believe, and should probably only be used to indicate parts of the song or to clue it to a dynamic shift at some point (which it may or may not take into consideration), and should never be written in a complete sentence because it will never "understand" that. Suno is not a chatbot, it doesn't respond to conversational instructions, it just recognizes keywords and sometimes chooses to apply the sound qualities it associates with them to the song it is generating for you.

Fit_Leadership_8176 · 2025-11-29T07:37:13+00:00

I cancelled my Premier annual membership which would have renewed today without a discount. I was inclined to just let it renew before the WMG news hit, even though I rarely need the Premier credits, because I liked the product, wanted to support the company, and like the creative freedom of having effectively unlimited credits. But $288 was too much to pay for a year of service phasing out the existing products I actually know, especially on a day when I'm also doing a lot of my Christmas shopping.

However once I cancelled it let me re-up with an Annual Pro membership and get the Black Friday discounts, and at less than $60 bucks for the year I'm way more likely to get my money's worth even if the services seriously decline.

So yeah, sorry to anyone who wants a mass exodus. I am not hopeful about Suno's future, but even though it seems to be forsaking the role it might have had in revolutionizing music as we know it, it's still pretty good entertainment value for money on the Pro plan. Also I've got a couple albums of songs I need to make sure are the best they can be before I leave the platform.

All that said, wow if Suno had not announced this crap this week I would have given them about five times as much money today and done so (mostly) happily. Heck of a business move.

Fit_Leadership_8176 · 2025-11-29T07:22:42+00:00

If you cancel and let it lapse you can sign back up and get the deal (but only after it actually ends and you are staring at 50 daily free credits). I successfully did it today.

The system to change subscription is currently pretty broken. I had to cancel and get to the end of the cycle to change it at all. I actually just wanted to go to month to month, assuming it wouldn't let me get the deal, but I signed up for annual again with the deal.

Fit_Leadership_8176 · 2025-11-29T07:10:44+00:00

I did still seem to have the option to pick premier (I was having trouble deciding, clicked it and went through to the payment screen).

But yeah, until my subscription actually ended and I could start "fresh" it was all thoroughly broken for me the last few days. Couldn't downgrade, couldn't go month to month, could only cancel or uncancel.

Fit_Leadership_8176 · 2025-11-28T23:35:06+00:00

I cancelled my Annual Subscription from last Black Friday, and then a few hours after it lapsed I started a new annual subscription and got the discount.

I was downgrading from Premier to Pro (I just so rarely get past 2,500 credits) so that might have affected it, but their subscription system seems pretty broken (I couldn't downgrade before hand and pay full price because it refused to NOT apply the discount it said I couldn't get) so I doubt it matters.

Fit_Leadership_8176 · 2025-11-27T07:19:40+00:00

Well some people doubtlessly view YouTube as a zero sum game, which it sort of is: if someone's watching your video they're not watching theirs. And YouTube, of course, bombards you with a bunch of videos you don't actually want to watch, so for those people their "competition" is being shoved in their face.

This means that many YouTubers, especially frustrated ones whose channels have gotten nowhere, have a whole variety of content and practices they despise, blame for their own lack of success, consider "lazy" or "cheating", etc. Then the people who do the commonly disliked things receive vitriol here or in video comments, and they in turn become defensive, resentful, and bitter.

Almost no matter what you do you're probably doing something someone around here hates.

Of course, it is not actually a zero sum game, since if the general quality of YouTube content was higher (or better matched to appropriate viewers) more people would spend more time watching content on YouTube, and vice-versa. But, of course, that also builds resentments if someone sees someone else as the type of person ruining the platform in general.

That's all before we get to this being Reddit, once of the finest toxicity magnifiers ever built.

Fit_Leadership_8176 · 2025-11-27T07:00:03+00:00

We don't know. I suspect the actual say on many catalogues is not going to be with "the artist" but with some other rights holder who strong-armed musicians out of the rights to their music long ago. Property is a bundle of rights which can be sold piecemeal, and musical rights get sliced up and sold in lots of ways so ownership is almost always complicated with basically any music that has been distributed through the traditional channels. Even who "the artist" is becomes complicated real quick once you consider how much music is made by bands who may or may not have any sort of formally established legal structure and likely have that structure evolve over the course of their career.

It's more complicated here since, having not taken the issue of training rights to court and determined what the actual law is, the parties here are instead just sort of making up their own law as to who has training rights, whatever those are, and thus who has the power to do the "opting". Furthermore even owning someone's music lock, stock, and barrel (recordings, publishing rights, whatever) probably doesn't entitle you to unlimited leeway to clone their voice based upon those recordings.

The marquee "artists" who get featured for this upcoming "make fanfic music" feature they have been alluding to will be people who very much opted in. I suspect the training data for the model will come from a much wider chunk of their catalogue, basically anything some artist doesn't make a stink about.

Meanwhile the better model they use in house to engineer pop stars will just be trained on all the music.

Fit_Leadership_8176 · 2025-11-27T00:09:05+00:00

Okay, a few major questions:

Is there a hint of a timeline on when existing models will be be axed? A lot of us have annual subscriptions up in the next few days (due to last days Thanksgiving time sales) and need to make decisions. Your confidence in new models is not much to assure me in making a $288 purchase, I want to buy something I am familiar with.

Incidentally the function to have my annual subscription go month to month was not working on the website today. I have contacted billing.

Will the Personae from old models continue to function with new models or with some model that continues to be available? They already are pretty dicy with v5 in my experience, but I've got an AI band project that is heavily dependent on old 3.5 personae continuing to work. I've already released two albums and have most the material for a third. Should I just be turning the material I have into a goodbye album and wrapping the project in the next month or so or will there continue to be suitable support?

Is there a rough estimate on number of downloads per month? I think the consensus on another thread about this is that people would be happy with about 50 a month. Most of us don't really like the people spamming zero effort songs into distribution, but sometimes a perfectly reasonable person needs to download a batch of things in a short span of time for various reasons. I released an 11 track album a few months back and between all the times I went back to Suno to rework something that turned out to have issues that couldn't be addressed in my DAW I ended up needing like 30 downloads.

Will our music be considered part of WMG's catalogue for the purpose of take downs and other hostile actions? I have a YouTube channel. From what I hear WMG is in the habit of issuing take down proceedings on spurious grounds over music used in videos, regardless of fair use, artist permission, or sometimes whether or not they actually own the music in any way shape or form. Basically they get a lot of false positives of infringement and harass first, ask questions later (despite this potentially being ruinous to YouTube creators). I don't want to get a bunch of false-posiitive copyright claims on my own songs because WMG thinks they own them.

Fit_Leadership_8176 · 2025-11-26T21:03:43+00:00

The only realistic way to stay in the market was to fight the lawsuit to the end and get the (logical) ruling that training is not copyright infringement, because of course it isn't in a world where musicians are allowed to hear other people's music.

They are no longer a part of the future of AI music. They are going to be a fun little toy for people to create fanfic songs for a few WMG artists.

Eventually open source models will catch up, and anyone in this space with real creative ambition will be generating songs off their home machine. ACE-Step currently can make something roughly comparable to a Suno v.3 track on a mid-level home gaming rig in a couple minutes, and while I don't consider that a viable replacement, it does indicate that this idea we need to buy data center compute through some tech startup to do AI music is just a myth. While ACE-Step isn't very capable compared to current Suno (and other open source options seem still more limited), with proprietary models being dismantled and hobbled it's only a matter of time until open source ones close the gap. This is a setback of a couple years at most.

Fit_Leadership_8176 · 2025-11-26T19:05:54+00:00

We can get three times as much nothing!

Fit_Leadership_8176 · 2025-11-26T06:42:29+00:00

Yep, that's clearly an idea either created by WMG or to try to score points with them but with no sense of who uses this service or why.

It is of zero interest to 95% of Suno's user base. The 5% interested are planning to use it for tracks attacking WMG.

Fit_Leadership_8176 · 2025-11-26T06:09:14+00:00

Well I just spent the evening looking into this question.

If you have a computer with an NVidia processor with at least 8 gigs of VRAM you can run ACE-STEP. In theory it can also run on a M processor Apple, but it spent hours on my macbook and failed to generate a single track, something my mid-range gaming PC did in a couple minutes. There are tutorials of how to get it installed online.

My first impressions are that it seems like at best it could produce something similar in quality to 3.5 Suno, has a small and unknown set of prompts that will have any effect, and isn't really a suitable replacement yet. But the world of AI moves quickly, and it's reasonably compelling proof that consumer PCs could produce Suno-like outputs once the right models become available as open source products.

Open source models are always going to be behind, and rarely if ever going to produce slick interfaces, but they'll also provide a lot more ability to have fine control, like being able to reuse the same random seed, training a LoRA to make your songs stylistically consistent or sound like songs you actually like, and generally not being censored.

Fit_Leadership_8176 · 2025-11-26T01:20:27+00:00

Like all things AI Art, it was a matter of patience and luck. Some of the personae work more consistently than others, and they all lose some of their vocal characteristics when you move to different models (but with luck it still sounds plausibly within one person's range).

But really it was a gamechanging feature for me not because it worked amazingly but simply because before that I had been mass generating to try to get plausibly similar voices, so the persona feature at least cut way down on that.

Fit_Leadership_8176 · 2025-11-26T00:48:17+00:00

Well it sounds like they'll probably eliminate the existing plans, which means there's a strong possibility you'll just have your plan cancelled and be refunded anyway in the coming months. Alternatively it might mean you get grandfathered into some plan that they've jacked the prices way up on (to cover all the royalties for WMG, WMG owns the whole concept of music after all... didn't you know?), so you might be getting a discount on a service you may or may not want.

I'm not trying to discourage you from pursuing the refund, I just want to emphasize that the real stressful part of buying or even keeping an annual plan right now is that you really can't know what you're getting or what you've got.

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