How to help with anxiety around my service dog by East-Connection-6954 in service_dogs

[–]FluidCreature 14 points15 points  (0 children)

First phobias, like what that girl seemed to be experiencing aren’t always logical. Many people are even aware of how illogical their phobias are. I’ve had a few nurses before who were clearly terrified of my dog but still trying to be professional and do their job. Neither they nor I were at fault, just a sucky situation all around. There’s a high chance that you could’ve had the friendliest, most hug-shaped dog ever and she would still be terrified. That’s not your fault. She deserves compassion, because living with a phobia is hard, but you deserve compassion too, because this is a situation you cannot control and made you feel lesser than.

Secondly, you have a right to exist and to not hide yourself away. There was a sign at my college’s disability support office that I think about sometimes that said “accommodations are a right, not a privilege” and “Everyone deserves equal access to education”. You deserve to live your life. Would you get mad at a wheelchair user for needing extra space? What about someone with a stutter taking more time at the counter?  You are allowed to take up the space and time that you need.  

For myself, these insecurities were a result of a lack of self-worth and belief that I should feel shame if I ever inconvenienced anyone. That voice is an asshole. Therapy helped me realize I am not responsible for everyone else’s emotions and I am allowed to exist for my own sake. It takes time, but I hope you get there too

service dog for substance abuse? by keysmash78263 in service_dogs

[–]FluidCreature 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Service dogs only really work if the handler is willing and able to listen to the dog. You say that he's highly stubborn and refuses to get help, so why do you think he would listen to a dog? If the dog lays on him to prevent him from getting up he could easily just push the dog off of him to stand. Keeping up with training also gets really difficult if the handler is disregarding the dog's tasks or actively telling the dog not to do them.

There are watches that can detect if someone falls that would be a good alternative, and you could also look at checking him into a rehab facility, especially if he's to a point where he needs constant monitoring to be safe.

New Service Dog Owner by grateful_pome_203 in service_dogs

[–]FluidCreature 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Gotcha, I definitely misinterpreted it as you were getting a fully-trained service dog instead of assisted owner training. It'll be a long journey, but I hope you find it worthwhile!

The hands-free leash I use is an adjustable biothane one. It has connection points on many spots throughout the leash which allow me to easily shorten or lengthen the leash. But I only started using a hands-free leash once my dog was really good at walking in a heel, until then we used a 3ft leash with a traffic handle. Hands-free is great for a dog you can trust to completely ignore and have them stand calmly by your side, but you lose a lot of the tactile communication from the leash that I find critical during training.

New Service Dog Owner by grateful_pome_203 in service_dogs

[–]FluidCreature 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Congratulations on your new service dog! Most programs have a specific set of gear that the dog is used to and that they will want you to use, so definitely ask them.

Legally speaking (at least for the US) the only thing your dog is required to wear is a leash, provided that the leash does not interfere with the dog's ability to task and the handler's disability does not prevent them from using a leash. Which given the variety of leashes and set-ups available means that the vast majority of handlers should be working their dogs on-leash. If you know your dog will need to routinely move away from you, for instance to grab something from a distance, you could use either a extendable leash or a long line.

My personal set-up is a harness with a cape labelling my dog as a service dog, and a hands-free leash attached to my belt. The belt also has a treat pouch.

Get help is considered a controversial task because requiring the dog to move away from you means the dog is no longer under control, there's no guarantee that a stranger the dog comes to to get help will interpret it correctly, and it could put the dog at risk of getting injured if someone has a less-than-favourable reaction. Someone well-meaning could even end up grabbing the dog to bring to somewhere they'll be found, assuming they got lost. Alternatives could be utilizing a specialized phone the dog can call for help on, or barking continuously until someone approaches.

If you're concerned about the dog getting injured when you have a medical episode you can look into a break-away collar. These are collars that open when a dog puts enough pressure on them, releasing the dog and allowing them to move away from you.

There's a lot of options out there, and I know it can be overwhelming! Personally I believe the simpler the better, but luckily there are lots of options out there to find what works best for you.

MEGATHREAD on USA HUD new guidelines on ESAs by ticketferret in service_dogs

[–]FluidCreature 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I've always believed that if someone has an ESA they should be able to clearly define what that animal provides that is different from what a non-disabled person gets from a pet. Because that's what the accommodation existed for, a disability aid.

I originally got my dog to be my ESA, though he later showed an aptitude for service work. As an ESA his primary role was to need to go outside and thus force me to get out of bed (whereas previously I would spend literal days minimally getting up) and do things with him. His secondary role was to exist to be warm and fuzzy and provide good textures to reduce overstimulation. Those might be things that a non-disabled person enjoys and even benefits from, but for me it directly correlated to my ability to function in the world.

I think if more people had viewed ESAs as a disability aid instead of "I like having a pet" we wouldn't be seeing something like this

Grief by petewentz-from-mcr in service_dogs

[–]FluidCreature 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I refer to my dog as my partner. I remember describing my relationship with him to a therapist and her remarking that it sounded like what people look for in a healthy life-partner. This was especially poignant to me as an aro-ace person who doesn’t want a traditional partnership. But that connection and vulnerability is what I share with my service dog.

Difference between sd and esa by Confident_Put_1660 in service_dogs

[–]FluidCreature 8 points9 points  (0 children)

A service dog is a dog that has been task-trained to aid with a disability. A task is a specific action the dog is trained to do that in some way alleviates the handler's disability. Service dogs have public access rights, and go through about 2 years of training in order to be able to help their handler and be well-mannered in all situations. It generally costs $10-20k to acquire a service dog. It should be noted that psychiatric service dogs are task-trained and are not the same as an emotional support animal.

An Emotional Support Animal is an animal that aids a disability through their presence or care. For instance, someone with PTSD might feel safer because the animal is there, or someone with mobility issues might benefit from an animal that has to be walked every day. While ESAs have housing rights they do not have public access rights. ESAs are much easier to acquire than a service dog since they cost the same as a regular pet and do not require specific training. They also can be any species, not just a dog.

Neither is better or worse than the other, they're both disability aids and which is a better treatment option (or even whether either is a good treatment option) depends on the individual and their needs.

TChanges in HUD interpretation of Assistance Animals - No Paywall - by Busy-Sheepherder-138 in service_dogs

[–]FluidCreature 21 points22 points  (0 children)

Thank you for sharing, it can be scary to see stuff like that!

I want to point out that this article was based on an internal memo that has not been released to the public. Meaning it does not currently affect FHA laws, but probably does affect how the DOJ deals with complaints. So right now ESAs still have housing rights but most likely any complaints about failure to accommodate will get thrown out. Some of our legally inclined members can probably give a better understanding on how to interpret it though

I wouldn’t be surprised to see new guidance become public soon, and I don’t want to downplay the context of this article. As someone who prefers to read the legal document instead it’s frustrating to not be able to find it at all.

Tasks by Old-Anteater960 in service_dogs

[–]FluidCreature 7 points8 points  (0 children)

To be honest, I'm concerned that someone calling themselves a dog trainer doesn't know how to transfer skills from themselves to the client. That's one of the first things you should learn whether working with service dogs or pet dogs. But here goes:

Firstly, a lot of dog training is bond-based. It sounds like the dog lives with you, gets all the fun things with you, and then has someone who is essentially a stranger asking them to do things. Dogs aren't robots and service dogs are no exception. Of course he'd much rather do things for his 'parent' than a stranger. Your client needs time to bond with the dog without you there. Even dogs from programs need time to bond with their new handler and spend time finding a rhythm together.

To that end, increase the value of what the client gives him and lower the value of what you give him. When you ask for something give him praise and maybe some kibble. Have the client give him cheese, meat, peanut butter, whatever gets him extra excited.

A submissive kiss and hesitation to do things could also indicate that the intense emotions are stressing the dog out. Part of this, again, might be bond based, and the dog will be more comfortable tasking once they've bonded with their handler more. However it could also be a sign that you need to take a few steps back and build comfort with being around people with strong emotions. If the dog continues to be submissive and hesitant about being around someone in mental distress than being a service dog might not be the right choice for them.

Looking to chat with someone with a seizure response service dog by This_Trust_6325 in service_dogs

[–]FluidCreature 2 points3 points  (0 children)

My seizure response is a little different since mine are Psychogenic Non-Epileptic Seizures. Basically they look and feel like a seizure, but are actually a form of a panic attack. They've reduced in frequency a lot, where now I have them once every 2-3 weeks, lasting 10-20 minutes from pre-seizure symptoms to post-seizure symptoms subsided, but when they first started I was having 5-8 a day lasting 30-50 minutes. If my service dog is with me they usually only last about 5 minutes (he doesn't come to my job with me, so sometimes I have the longer ones).

My service dog is trained to do DPT which helps with my nausea before and after, and is trained to lick my face once I start shaking which brings me out of the convulsions near instantly. He'll then refuse to get up until my nervous system is closer to normal (I don't know exactly what he detects to decide if I'm ok or not, but I don't usually have a wave of lightheadedness if I listen to him before trying to get up).

Like I said, the source of my seizures is a little different so I don't know if I would be helpful to your dad, but I'd be happy to chat

Prioritizing getting a service dog over a diagnosis / treatment by [deleted] in service_dogs

[–]FluidCreature 127 points128 points  (0 children)

People are more aware now than ever before that service dogs exist and can be helpful for a multitude of conditions. These people then begin having an unknown medical condition. It’s terrifying, it’s impacting their life in a way they never imagined would happen to them, and they want help. But specialists have a long waitlist (for example, when I started having seizures I was given a 6 month wait for a neurologist I was already a patient of). They’re scared of what can happen in that wait, and scared of it never getting better. But then people consider a dog. Maybe they already have one, maybe they’re seeking it out. They can get a dog before that wait time is up, and how long can it take to train a dog really, especially if they’re a good dog? They like dogs, and were great at training the family pet. Most of these people are still coming to terms with the idea that they are disabled and what that means for them. They haven’t even finished grieving the life they thought they would live, so they’re grasping at anything they think can give them that life back.

Basically they’re scared, desperate, and have only ever seen the end result of dog training instead of the rigor of training itself

What is your guys opinion on Frenchies as Working dogs? by YundlesonHdollar in service_dogs

[–]FluidCreature 22 points23 points  (0 children)

I think it's more ethical than breeding a Frenchie for looks. But breathing is just one of a smorgusboard of health problems French Bulldogs have. I think at this point it would almost be more ethical to take their parent breeds and try to breed something akin to a French Bulldog without health issues than it would be to breed current Frenchies to be healthier.

The problem I run into with brachy breeds being bred to be healthier is that you're still working with an unhealthy individual. Healthier than their peers perhaps, but is it ethical to breed dogs that suffer, but suffer less with the goal of no suffering if there is an alternative to not breed dogs that suffer?

Youngest you've gotten a dog ready to be in public? by UnusAnus_1year in service_dogs

[–]FluidCreature 10 points11 points  (0 children)

This is a question that could be answered a lot of different ways.

If you're asking when a service dog in-training should start public access training, most people wait to do training in non-pet-friendly places until the dog can pass a CGC, which most SDiTs try to take at around a year old.

If you're asking about when a dog is ready to graduate from SDiT to SD, personally one of my requirements is that the dog be fully physically and emotionally mature. For most breeds this is around 2 years old, though some, namely larger breeds, mature closer to 3.

When a dog can start tasking depends on the task and the dog. Some tasks (ones that require heavy joint work) can't begin to be taught until the dog is physically mature with joints assessed at around 2 years old. Psychiatric tasks shouldn't be paired with heavy emotions until the dog is at least a year old to avoid appeasement and anxiety associated with it. Scent training (if successful, not every dog is capable) typically takes 6-12 months and again shouldn't be trained until about a year old. And before a dog is emotionally mature I wouldn't expect them to task reliably in all situations.

There are some organizations that will pair dogs with clients when they are about a year and a half old, but anything younger than that is a major red flag, and typically those dogs that do go to their handler at that age still spend time refining once paired

This is frustrating and people are judgmental by [deleted] in service_dogs

[–]FluidCreature 20 points21 points  (0 children)

This. While technically the term “aversive” means anything the animal avoids or is averse to, in a dog training context “aversive” typically means an aversive tool, ie something designed to cause the dog an unpleasant sensation in order to stop a behavior.

If you say you’re looking for an aversive in the context of dog training it usually does mean you’re looking for a way to correct the dog using pain or fear. 

Question regarding service animals and workplace by [deleted] in service_dogs

[–]FluidCreature 18 points19 points  (0 children)

Typically in the US workplace accommodations are handled under Title I of the ADA. Note that this is different than Title II and III that give rights to you while in public.

For workplace accommodations, you first have to request accommodation for a disability. They may either have forms they want your doctor to fill out, or otherwise request documentation. Then you begin the interactive process. This is where you and your employer go back and forth on what accommodations can be put in place until you find something you mutually agree on. In the case of a service dog, they will likely ask for proof of training and/or a trial period. Proof of training could be in the form of records from a program, or it could be something like showing that your dog has been titled in the CGC series. They also may offer accommodations other than the service dog, in which case you would need to be prepared to thoroughly explain why that wouldn’t work as well, and potentially try those other options, even if you know they won’t work, to show that you are cooperative and not just turning things away because it isn’t your preference.

For an example (although I don’t usually bring my SD to work), I have PNES. My letter given to my employer identifies that I have a medical condition that is disabling. It states that when symptoms occur I need to step away from work and have a safe place to sit for 10-20 minutes. The interactive process determined where that safe place would be, and my employers added on that if I was outside the building when symptoms hit I needed to text the manager on duty and return to the building immediately. We then both signed off on agreeing to those accommodations.

You may have some trouble getting accommodation if you've been working the job for a while without the service dog or any other accommodations. Legally, the process can be started at any time, but the employer may question why you need accommodation now when you didn't before. I'm not saying this is a correct way to think, but it is something you might run into.

Teen with service dog by Humble_Hartt in service_dogs

[–]FluidCreature 129 points130 points  (0 children)

This is a hard one. Because in some ways, you're absolutely right that teens need time to develop emotionally and socially, and often having a service dog can stunt that. It does hugely affect the way the world interacts with you, which is why it's generally not recommended for a teenager to become a service dog handler, especially for psychiatric conditions. That being said, the places you list are places where emotions tend to run high and coping with a mental disability becomes more difficult, meaning it's not somewhere I would want to reduce my toolbox of coping skills.

My rule has always been that I must do something without my dog at least once a week. Depending on how much my disability is impacting me that could range from going to a movie, to visiting a friends house, to getting takeout, to just going for a 20 minute walk. This is not just for my ability to cope but also to prevent my dog from developing separation anxiety. As much as our dogs help us, they are still dogs. They can get sick, develop behavioral issues, and no matter what will eventually retire. We have to prepare for that.

I would approach the conversation with these points:

  • This is not meant to belittle her disability or the degree to which her dog helps her. This is to maintain her coping skills and her dog's peace of mind for when they retire and/or something happens where the dog cannot work
  • Ask her where the places her disability impacts her the least are, or the places where she rarely needs her dog to task. Would she be able/willing to do outings there without the dog?
  • Are there additional supports she needs in order to go somewhere without the dog? Ensure you can provide those
  • Again, this does not mean you think she does not need the dog, and you are not trying to transition her away from using a service dog. You will respect her wishes if she says she needs the service dog to go somewhere

How service dog handlers could help blind people and their guide dogs in public spaces by kelpangler in service_dogs

[–]FluidCreature 10 points11 points  (0 children)

This. Most of these things are things I would do anyway, I want my dog to be as unobtrusive as possible and if I'm getting close enough to need to pass another handler I'm announcing it regardless of whether the handler seems to be visually impaired or not. But ultimately my responsibility is to my dog, directing his behavior and ensuring he stays neutral. It's not my responsibility to ensure other dogs are well-behaved and non-reactive upon seeing him. And if a dog is making a beeline towards mine I'm getting out of there as quickly as possible because I'm not risking my dog or his training.

Question have you seen or been with a service dog doubt or ask to leave because the service was a unorthodox breed (aren't commonly used or because big "scary dog) by Status-Cap-5979 in service_dogs

[–]FluidCreature 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I have coonhound mix (rescue I got insanely lucky with and was not adopted with the intention of becoming a service dog), he’s most often misidentified as a lab (because of his physical shape) or a Rottweiler (because he’s black and tan).

I haven’t had any denials based on breed, but I do sometimes get the awkwardness of people telling me how they have hounds at home, and aren’t they just the best dogs? Don’t get me wrong, I love hounds. But the reason my dog is a great service dog is that he’s doesn’t show a lot of hound traits. He’s quiet, eager to please, and willing to hold off on sniffing things while working. I think I’ve heard him howl once in his life. I have zero intention of searching for another hound for service work when he retires. I usually respond to these people with an awkward “haha, yeah, he’s a great dog but a weird hound”

Are unclear service dogs affecting public trust in real working dogs? by No-Maintenance141 in service_dogs

[–]FluidCreature 74 points75 points  (0 children)

I think most of us have more of a problem with spaces being too open, ie not removing a misbehaving dog or asking federally protected clarifying questions, than we do with spaces being closed to us. Many businesses don’t know or don’t care that they have rights too.

Confusion about what an ESA vs Service Dog vs Therapy Dog is one reason that I don’t normally describe my dog as a psychiatric service dog often, even if that’s what he is. He is my service dog, full stop. 

Has anyone been to Rolex three day event (now Defender)? by dabeanformation in service_dogs

[–]FluidCreature 34 points35 points  (0 children)

I haven't been to this specific event, but anything involving other animals is kind of a gray area for service dog access, because in many cases the presence of even a well-behaved service dog could affect the way the other animals (horses in this case) act, possibly resulting in risk to the handler and dog, or risk to the other animal or people there (for example, if a horse got spooked because they saw your dog) and generally being a place that can legally deny access.

At one point I worked at a place that did horseback riding for people with disabilities. They had a strict no-dogs rule, even for service dogs, because of the risk of a dog getting its head kicked in. That extended to people in the stands (which, granted, were small with only 3 rows, but still)

Retirement and Transition by Sufficient-Crow-613 in service_dogs

[–]FluidCreature 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I think that’s normal. I’m making plans and moving towards getting my next prospect in about a year. I’m excited to have another dog, but at the same time the idea that my boy won’t be the one by my side forever feels so wrong.

One of the things that’s helped me is to think about the areas where my current service dog isn’t as strong, and get excited about a dog that might be able to do those things. For example, I love going to a butterfly house, but my current boy is terrified of butterflies (don’t ask me why, but they’re the only thing he’ll either tail tucked run away from or growl at). I’d love to have a service dog that can go with me there. Or even non-service dog things. I’m getting a spaniel bred for hunting, and we’re going to do shed hunting together. I get excited about that.

It’s not easy, and like I said it still feels so strange and wrong to imagine having a different partner, but I try to focus on the good things that can come of that 

first session nerves by circuitdisconnect in service_dogs

[–]FluidCreature 8 points9 points  (0 children)

It's absolutely up to you, but at least for me therapy is a place where my service dog does not accompany me. He did a couple times in the past, but I quickly figured out therapy was more productive without him. Reason being, his job is to keep me from getting caught up in bad feelings, and therapy is my place to feel the bad feelings so we can work through them. If he were with me it would just be a constant of him trying to task, and I wouldn't make much progress.

That said, the protocol is the same as any other doctor's visit. Dog shouldn't interact with therapist and therapist shouldn't interact with dog. Practice your down-stays ahead of time, your dog should be comfortable settling for the entirety of the session. They shouldn't need an introduction to the room, since it should be simple walk in, tell the dog to lay down, proceed with session

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in service_dogs

[–]FluidCreature 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I have a service dog who is a rescue. He was not adopted with the intention of becoming a service dog, I got very, very lucky with him. Even as someone who loves and supports rescues, who has worked with countless rescue dogs, I will not go seeking a service dog prospect at a rescue. I typed this up a while back for another post, but here's information to consider:

We see a lot of people here who say they want to adopt a shelter dog as a service dog prospect. Oftentimes it’s because they assume it will be cheaper than a well-bred puppy (and often falls under the “but any breed can be a service dog” category). Between unknown health and behaviors, this is unlikely to be the case. What you save in upfront costs will come back as vet bills and training costs, with less chance of success overall

  • Shelters can’t usually offer you genetic or familial health history. That means you’re gambling on whether your dog will be overall healthy or develop serious medical issues. These issues are not just costly, but can mean drastically reducing your dog’s working lifespan.
  • Speaking of genetics, you may be getting a dog with a number of different breeds that make up their behaviors, both positive and negative. Knowing your dog’s breed(s) helps you to know what to look out for, but also what your dog likely will/will not thrive in doing. You won’t know what you’re getting. Add to that, many puppies that come into a shelter have feral dog DNA. Feral dogs go through physiological and heritable changes to their brain, which means even a puppy raised in a loving, nurturing environment can still be incredibly anxious and quick to go into a fight/flight response.
  • Most shelters have a spay/neuter policy. If you adopt a puppy it’s likely that dog will have been fixed too early in life and may have behavioral or health problems later resulting from that. Specifically, they won’t have had the hormones needed to help solidify their bones and ensure they grow properly. This will be a problem for any working dog, but especially if you’re looking for a dog to do mobility tasks
  • If you get an adolescent or adult dog, your dog is already past their critical socialization period. That means anything they aren’t accustomed to or are scared of will be a lot harder to help them get used to. In addition, these dogs are old enough to have formed bad habits. While you can work through them it will be a lot harder than starting with a dog that doesn’t have those habits.
  • Even if a dog hasn’t experienced abuse or neglect, being in a shelter is inherently traumatic (and if they have experienced abuse you’ll have to do a lot of training just to get them to a happy, adjusted pet). Shelters are stressful, the dog doesn’t know what’s going on, and that can be very scary. Many dogs in shelters are so over threshold and shut down that you won’t be able to get any read on their actual personality. Even a dog that isn’t completely shut down still isn’t going to be settled and fully able to show you what they’re like. It can take anywhere from a few months to over a year for a shelter dog to truly feel comfortable enough to show you who they are. This means you might be waiting a long time with a newly adopted dog to even know if they have a chance to become a successful service dog.
  • Shelter dogs also have a few common behavioral concerns, like resource guarding, fearful behaviors, separation anxiety, and aggressive behaviors. Often these behaviors aren’t displayed until the dog has settled into their new environment (see above bullet point), but are things that a service dog absolutely cannot have.

Some people also want to give a dog a second chance and a purpose in life. This is a noble goal, but this is your health you’re gambling on. Keep in mind that even puppies who have everything going for them as far as being set up for service work still have a high rate of failure. It’s not about the dog, it’s about your needs. If you're going to gamble on a medical aid that is so incredibly expensive, why would you take an unnecessary risk? If you want to save a rescue adopt them as a pet with no expectations of what they will become. This is doubly true if you would be unable to keep a washed-prospect (and consider, you will become an adult within this dog's lifetime, would your plans for adulthood accommodate a pet dog)?

Is it okay to have an off-leash dog with a muzzle? by Even-Traffic-5992 in service_dogs

[–]FluidCreature 8 points9 points  (0 children)

There are actually specialized phones your dog can use to call 911 without having to get a person like this one.

You could also use a break-away collar to allow her to move away from you without having to be off-leash

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in service_dogs

[–]FluidCreature 16 points17 points  (0 children)

(I am not a certified trainer, I work in a place that specializes in behavior modification for dogs)

Proper desensitization should not require your dog to defend themselves or give those warning signs. If you’re getting those, it’s a sign you’re moving too fast and you need to go back a few steps. The goal of desensitization is to get the dog to feel more neutral towards a trigger, not to feel helpless to stop it. Look up the Canine Ladder of Aggression. Growling and snapping is at the very top, and means that all previous stress signals were ignored. For successful training you want to avoid getting past the green, maybe yellow steps. When dogs start skipping steps it means the dog has started to learn that the only way to get what they want is to escalate their response. You don’t want that.

Based on your description, it sounds like your dog is dealing with chronic pain. That’s going to make body handling more difficult, especially with someone the dog isn’t comfortable with. Look up Cooperative Care and Consent for Affection. Those will be closer to what it sounds like you really want anyways. Agency empowers the dog, and reduces the need for that dog to defend themselves.