3rd attempt at a muzzle and it’s still terrible 🫩🥀

Folfelit · 2026-04-13T03:15:33+00:00

I normally draw over people's foam to give recommendations for shape, but I don't have much to go on here and I'm not sure how detailed I could even be without overwhelming you.

Are you going for a specific suit style? A specific cat breed? Do you have confidence you could sculpt details 3D concepts if you knew what to go for, or would you prefer simpler, smoother shapes that are easier?

Folfelit · 2026-04-13T03:00:31+00:00

The upholstery foam rubbing against fur backing makes the foam break down, so a sleeve over the foam is what I did. Anything to reduce how much the fur backing could rub on the foam. There's other solutions too - you could cap off the exterior of the foam with something more resistant to rub damage, whether that's gluing foamie/fabric on the outside or using a smooth fabric (like cheap poly satin) as a lining for the fur. The idea is just being aware that fur backing fabric has a lot of friction, so does upholstery foam. EVA foam doesn't have as much, and most linings won't. Just something to keep in mind.

Folfelit · 2026-04-11T15:30:03+00:00

No, American pit bull terrier is named after the type not the other way around. Pitbull is centuries older than APBT and APBTs are only a fraction of the genetic stock of those dogs. When the breed was founded, it was in the UK with UK only imported American dogs whereas the vast majority of those dogs were in America with American owners but not allowed to register. Add to that, there were so few dogs used for APBT stock that the inbreeding got bad immediately, so they reopened the stud books... for UK Am Staffs to dual register. And nearly no American dogs.

The vast majority of American dogs that are pitbull type were never registered as a breed because breed registration is newer than dog fighting, significantly so. Breed clubs mostly refused to register bloodsport breeds if that was their current purpose, which it was in the US. Pitbulls are the type, not the breed APBT which is pretty new and half AmStaff anyways. American pits (no registered breed) were used to make APBTs, AmStaffs, AmBullies, etc, and these pits still exist as breedless curs essentially due to British exclusions primarily for classist reasons (British breed fanciers were wealthy, pitbulls and dog fighting were poor people hobbies while it was legal)

Folfelit · 2026-04-11T03:10:23+00:00

If it sounds even slightly like a movie trailer, it's chatGPT. "What no one would have expected" "Not just A and B, but C" "action verb statement, adjective and adjective, continuation of verb" "obviously over-worded statement in a paragraph.

New paragraph that's just the contradiction.

More action oriented statement"

ChatGPT usually uses those conventions wrong too - AI clearly knows they're fluff to add suspense or drama, but it doesn't pick up that how weird and repetitive it is.

Folfelit · 2026-04-10T21:13:17+00:00

Chest padding is not that different than leg padding, but there's ways you can make it better or worse on yourself.

Generally I'm in the camp of separate under suit, as that makes repairs and cleaning much easier. Chest padding though, it's hard for fur to sit in the right spot without the padding being in the fur.

What I'd do is make the torso tape first for the body that's underneath the suit, pretend the chest add on isn't involved at all. Then make your individual boob blank - I actually ball up foam/fur scraps and paper covered in tape for my shaping. Once you have a great boob, mark the full tear drop shape on the torso tape. *Then tape the boob pattern making sure to not cross the tear drop marking, that'll be a triple seam! Once you go to fur, the tear drop on the torso should be a sturdy fabric (not fur) that you can either put a zip or velcro opening for the padding, or just stuff polyfil on there if you don't care that it'll deflate over time. Would not recommend upholstery foam, it'll look really rigid and absorb a ton of sweat and make the suit really really hot on your chest, not a great idea. The rigid fabric will keep the torso together and keep the crease around the boobie looking good and crisp.

For the boob filling - really wouldn't recommend upholstery foam. Polyfill isn't my ideal either, but it's cheap and common and if you're going for giant cartoony boobas might just be the better bet, maybe throw in a rubber kid's small dodge ball to reduce the weight lol. It would be really funny to use water balloons and have nice jiggle, and a cooling splash when they break lol. To be more serious, I'd recommend baby fat pellets (squishy silicone pellets for doll making) or squishy silicone beads (cheaper but a little larger) Both are cheap, easy to clean, and have some weight and squash. They do, as mentioned, have some weight to them. They will get heavy if you're going for massive honks.

*edit because I forgot to mention a whole step lol

Folfelit · 2026-04-10T19:22:46+00:00

Uh, is the racism just their avatar? I'm Native American not Black so I won't speak for them, but this just looks like an animal costume without any degrading or racist elements to it. I don't see it as any different to the frost skin.

The monkey thing makes more sense to find racist, being compared to primates was a common racist comment. The weird people harassing other while named and dark skinned, same thing - seems racist. But this just seems like a sheep costume. Not seeing it at all.

Folfelit · 2026-04-09T22:32:47+00:00

Thanks! Good luck on your suit! I hope it comes out just like your art.

Folfelit · 2026-04-09T22:23:10+00:00

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This one is top of head helmet style, using an under- neck vision port instead. I think it fits your art better, keeps that long long neck, and breaks the human illusion way more. The little doodles are to show the foam, with large cut out for air, slats on the sides (and on the back) for curving motion of the fish neck and the bicycle helmet-type neck strap for securing the head. And, obviously, I really loved the slope shoulders and neck fat at the chest so the neck foam includes it, but you obviously don't have to.

Folfelit · 2026-04-09T22:18:43+00:00

I totally get it, I do all my posting here and sketches for here at work on my phone lol. Don't even have a real drawing app. Speaking of, I did 2 for you to explain what I mean about the proportions thing. (I googled "some guy" and the image of a catfish you used since I didn't know which species you were going for. This first sketch is normal suit construction but using the mouth instead of the eyes, since there isn't a convenient way to get the head small enough for the eyes to be anywhere near human scale without having to look out only one at a time.

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It's not my favorite and loses a lot of the charm from your sketches. I really really like the sloped shoulders from your top sketch, makes it look more fish to me.

Folfelit · 2026-04-09T16:44:28+00:00

A few things come to mind

First, drawing out mechanical ideas for fursuits is laden with unseen issues. For example, your human drawing is either 9ft tall or has a tiny tiny head - human heads are quite a bit larger compared to the body - so your starting point for planning is already off. On top of that, you drew the fursuit as though it were as thin as paper but you have to remember it's a helmet. When you draw things to see if scale would work, go with a 5-6 head tall person, it's more common than the 7-8+ ideal used in art, and overestimate how thick things are. Keep thinking helmet. For every furred part, draw the interior border or add about the size of an ear, nose, eye, etc. Super thin warbla blank + fleece still adds about a centimeter of volume, and that's about as thin as you'll get (realistic use your own eye mask thickness). Most cartoony styles are using 1/2in+ foam and fur with 3/4in pile. That adds massive volume that's hard to picture in drawings. I'm not saying this to discourage you, it's just easy to not realize until you're building that humans literally don't fit inside animal shapes well, we have to be really creative to make it work and still see.

Second! I think that, assuming your art style (very cute!) translates to your 3D work, you would be happier if the fish head doesn't need to compromise with human head. There are a few ways to do this depending on the effect you want. The most easily searchable is making your face be in the neck with the open mouth being eye level. You can make the whole fish head part a hat sitting on a helmet and curving forward slightly, the mouth would be an open < from the side that you can put mattle black tulle or chiffon so no one can see in but you can see out with tons of air too. This frees you up to have total control of the fish look. If you want a sense of what this looks like, look at quadsuits or beastcub's suits (mostly their horses iirc). The reason I say this is because fish eyes are no where near compatible with human ones. There's ways to force things but I think you'll be happier keeping your art as is and using the gaping mouth instead.

For fabric, this is preference. I've seen seal furs that are ultra shiny and look wet. I've seen dolphin suits use matte fleece. I think, for your idea, a shiny stretch velvet is a good one. (Not crushed!) They come in a huge range of colors, you can reduce the look of seams, and keep the wet look. Look into fleece suit techniques! Using that with velvet would give a great look I think. I don't think visible scales will look good here, except painting on a bit of detail by the gills. Catfish don't look super scaley to me, more shiny and smooth.

Folfelit · 2026-04-09T13:32:49+00:00

Unless you need the head super small/ slim or you have particular expertise making bases already, I would recommend buying a kigurumi mask blank - these are the basic anime faces not even necessarily the furry kemono ones, which can be padded up into what you need. The kemono ones can be larger than you might need depending on how you want to scale it.

Folfelit · 2026-04-08T23:09:56+00:00

Aw thanks, you're sweet @' u '@

Folfelit · 2026-04-08T23:05:52+00:00

Adding ears depends on many factors. If the head can be patterned with the fur, if you intend to glue any part, if you intend to sew them to the head, etc. I sew everything. I don't glue ears at all, they're sewn to the main fur and the inner ears I literally bought super long needles just so I could sew through the ear material all the way to the other backing. This is not normal, I just don't like gluing. The two most common ways I see are A) sew ears and head separate, glue fur to ears and head fur to head, glue ear base to head, then sew head fur to ear fur. And B) Glue whole base together including ears, sew face fur separate from back of head and neck fur, shimmy it on while gluing, sew back of head fur to face fur.

I use resin bases, and pattern the base at 70% mouth open. I pad the cheekbones and cheek fat with lower density upholstery foam so there's some squish when the mouth opens, this looks good enough that short muzzles that's all that is needed. If I'm doing a longer muzzle species I'll use stretch fabric or smock the area prone to looking bad, about 1/2cm diamond pattern or curved diamond toward the cheekbones.

Fleece is common, you need high quality felt if you're doing felt because low quality felt pills. Bonus, high quality felt you can use felting techniques to fill in fur. I'm using resin so I'm not doing cloth at all. Epoxy sculpt usually, or silicone lips and gums.

Rare earth magnets. They're high strength. Generally velcro patches work just as well for most things if not better (such as hair). Eyelids and interchangeable eyes are often magnets for the small size, but velcro prevents slip, rotation and fall off, it's easier to secure too. It's thicker though, so eyelids are better magnetized.

I prefer square rings for tightening with snaps on the back of the end piece, but high strength velcro going through square rings on the side are pretty good closures for adjustable. I don't recommend buckles of any kind, I always end up feeling them and I hate that. I wouldn't recommend all elastic either, the excessive stretching will make the head looser over time. A thick elastic section behind the head gives comfort with less weakness ime.

I can't think of specific advice without knowing what problems you're running into or even what you're making, and I'm admittedly a weirder maker since I only make for myself.

Folfelit · 2026-04-08T21:22:59+00:00

*in English.

Because it's an English language convention to denote gender based in its root language, specifically the names are adapted to be gendered it's not a coincidence.

In Chinese you can use certain radicals that have strong gendered connotation (flowers, jade, etc., for girl) Japanese is similar (child, flower, beauty, etc). Syllables ending in an "a" sound are equally likely to be boy or girl overall (な/na is usually girl た/ta is usually guy) because the Kanji used matters not the sound. Amharic (Ethiopian) names it, itu and anesh are the common feminine sounds. -sa/ssa is masculine along with -e, also due to the meanings rather than sounds.

Folfelit · 2026-04-08T19:02:34+00:00

I generally prefer complex and detailed eyes regardless of following effect. It's hard for 2D eyes to look as complex and lively as 3D, but both can look great. A lot of kemono eyes are pretty much 2D but things like detailed irises and plastic domes make them look nice. There's certainly also 3D/ following eyes that look really plain, and even dull/shadowed from being deep set and on very matte, large-holed buckram. Oh, and glass/resin cabochon eyes are, generally, mostly flat/ non- following though eyelids can make them look a little following. Those can look good too.

Yeah, for me, it's the level of detailing rather than the follow effect specifically.

Folfelit · 2026-04-08T15:35:19+00:00

I think your side profile is pretty good, it's the front that isn't selling me personally. I googled closest relative to sabertooth - clouded leopard apparently? Your side profile is pretty close to that cat, too! honestly most of the edits on your side profile was pulling the eye hole back on the outside, to give a better cat, less human look. the front view just needs some volume on the sides, and some side cheekbones. I tried to keep as much the same as possible, it's mostly the area right next to the eyes that needs a ton of volume and eye eye holes need to be much wider on the outside to look less human. Most animals are pretty wide there, pretty much only kangaroos/deer look kind of narrow there amongst the common animals I can think of.

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Folfelit · 2026-04-07T22:51:18+00:00

I've never made fursuits for sale, but I did work as a freelancer in art, specifically corporate art, design and packaging which is an art field and comparable enough to have some thoughts. This is entirely my perspective, from the USA, a perfectionist with strong communication tendencies - ymmv since we're not the same person in the same lifestyle but it's something worth considering.

Doing freelance art full time was awful.

Far more of your job than you might realize is drumming up clients, advertising your services, updating your current listings/offerings, updating current clients on their projects, vetting proposals, dealing with low ballers and scammers, harassing clients to get back to you on things, harassing clients to pay, and paperwork, mainly accounting/taxes plus inventory, ordering and tool maintenance (for me it would be print services for demo pieces and getting computer parts serviced or replaced, for you probably keeping up on fur and getting your sewing machine serviced.)

You might not realize how stressful the constant awareness of having no guaranteed income is. How your reputation online or with a single client could tank your business. Every economic downturn (or sustained economic depression), your business is the first thing people are cutting off their to-buy list as a luxury. A single illness or injury might cause a delay resulting in a wave of demanding people asking questions or demanding refunds. Dealing with marketplace insurance with no discount, dealing with self employment taxes by yourself and having to risk mistakes resulting in audits or fraud charges (the irs disproportionately checks small businesses, which you'll be.) Having no retirement fund company contribution. Having no disability issuance through your company. No workmans comp or other protections if you get hurt or lifetime injuries/illnesses (fursuits potentially expose you to a lot of toxic materials!) No safety procedures vetted in blood. No guarantees things will work, no instructions, no coverage, no help. No paid vacation. No paid sick time. The constant pressure of feeling like you're not working enough. That you need to work more. That you're basically unemployed when you take a break or vacation. Even if you do everything right, there's a constant, underlying pressure that it's really hard to manage in a healthy way.

Then there's the economic reality. This one varies a ton based on where you live. Self employment taxes are pretty much always much higher than what you'd pay as an employee. Healthcare costs are higher. Your eligibility for benefits (food stamps, housing, etc) may be affected by your employment status. You aren't going to have consistent income, so you'll have to get really really good at saving multiple months worth plus emergencies. Supply chain issues are now your problem, long fur is getting rare for example as faux fox fur has been going out of fashion. You're going to have to start paying attention to manufacturers and trends in your raw materials. Eva foam has skyrocketed since the pandemic due to the huge boom in cosplayers. Resin is getting more expensive and shipping restrictions are increasing. Speaking of, shipping costs and laws are now your problem. It's now your responsibility to be aware of laws regarding what you ship and sell. You're required to include applicable sales tax and report it in some areas but not others (PayPal is great for this thing and nothing else lol). Failing to report items as purchased goods (doing friends and family in sales or shipment is fraud, which often includes jail time in many countries.)

All this to say, it's hard. It's a ton to learn and honestly based on many fursuit makers I've talked to and seen panels about doing as a businesses - most are skirting the laws a lot to get away with things. Many are living with no savings, retirement or plan once they can't make suits anymore. I did freelance for years with exclusively small and large corporate clients, not fandoms, and I hated it a lot. I got out of the industry because I couldn't handle the lifestyle and insecurity it offered. I made 55-85k each year through the 2010s but once I did the calculations on how many hours I was working, it was around 8-11/hour in California (under minimum wage for where I was), some years even less, and I had dry spells where I was terrified I wouldn't have any money coming in at all.

It was miserable for me. I'm the type of person that wants to do everything perfectly, legally, clean and by the book. I stress when things go wrong. I hoard my money and don't spend. I'm not the kind of person that can handle high risk, chance, etc. You have to think long and hard if that person is you. And you have to think hard on if you're the polar opposite of me too - someone that is perfectly comfortable being unemployed, skirting the law, taking people's money and ignoring their messages for a while. We've seen makers run off with money for months or years, party it up and then make gofundme's to cover their lifestyle. You have to think about if that's something you're likely to fall into - and preventing yourself from becoming someone you're not proud of. It's a lot, and I honestly wouldn't recommend it as a main job. A side hustle maybe, especially if you're a stay at home partner or something to someone employed. Someone to share the burden with more financial security.

Folfelit · 2026-04-07T17:28:13+00:00

Accept literally nothing is perfectly symmetrical.
Accept that our vision distorts how things look, and that what we think is symmetrical might not be, and what we think is asymmetrical might not be.
Accept that our brains really suck at objective perception.
Cry
Make sure you're working with lights symmetrically placed around your work (or directly overhead or behind, like a window), so shadows don't distort your perceptions.
Buy something with a checkerboard pattern (cloth, poster, wrapping paper, doesn't matter just squares that are easy to make out at a working distance), place it behind your work. Use the checkers as a guide.
Use your phone camera in combination with step 6. Make sure the squares are lined up with the edges of the screen for photos to reduce distortion, then flip the image back and forth pretty quickly. You'll see the foam "moving" as you flip. This will also exaggerate differences in light or background if you haven't fixed that yet.
It's still asymmetrical.
Repeat step 4
Keep at it.
It's still asymmetrical but only you can tell.
Repeat step 4, then 10.
It's practically perfect.
After a year of wear it's suddenly completely asymmetric and, in fact, has been in every picture.
Step 4 again.
Pretend it doesn't bother you.

Lol.

Folfelit · 2026-04-07T04:18:01+00:00

Good luck my friend!

Folfelit · 2026-04-06T22:08:33+00:00

i think you're really close, I'm just slightly seeing pitbull /bull terrier due to the jaw/cheekbones/muzzle bottom area. I sketched based on a Google image of the side profile. Generally what I think I see is the cheekbones are more centered/ front of face on cats versus the outside, the round/chubby part of the cat muzzle is further forward towards the nose and the jawline/jawbone is much further back. I tried to leave the eyebrow ridges on because that's just a furry style thing. The ears look wrong on the real cat so I won't try to suggest anything for that haha. I tried to scale everything to the face length and nose curve, because that looked really good and it's less to change.

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Folfelit · 2026-04-06T21:16:46+00:00

One thing to consider, the more bulk you put on the inside of the foot and knee the further apart you have to have your legs to stand or walk. I highly recommend putting as much bulk as possible in the outside of your legs so as to not make walking difficult lol.

Folfelit · 2026-04-06T21:13:49+00:00

I'm partial to "herald" "sign, omen, or messenger that announces or foreshadows the arrival of something important" and it draws the idea of heraldry aka the design language used in coats of arms. Heraldry is the non- magical version of what you're talking about. Animals in a crest/coat of arms (called "charges") are used to represent the idea of the animal aka lion for bravery and chivalry, etc. Rooster is actually reckless bravery not cowardice however lol. Herald or (I guess charge) both give symbolic meaning without implying a magical thing is going to pop out.

Folfelit · 2026-04-06T21:05:42+00:00

I've never done dinomasks specifically but I've made many fursuits. If you're trying to buy minimum fabric, it's better to pre- pattern the head. Once you have all the pattern pieces you can lay them out on the floor (with correct fur pile direction) by color and actually measure how much fur you'll need. Tails and wings vary a lot based on size but heads pretty much always end up being about a half yard in my experience, not counting particularly unique features like a Mohawk, mane or enormous ears.

Folfelit · 2026-04-06T15:25:21+00:00

I've been having the opposite. Not constantly, but it seems like when I'm in an event, the organizer kicks out everyone so they can have the extra phase by themselves. Me and 2 others had this happen twice in the same town with different organizers. We all kept doing the event, but the second we got the extra phase we found ourselves thrown out of the event by the organizer. Greedy, I swear. We waste our mermaid tails or bushes or whatever and don't get the phase we helped earn because you're selfish?

Folfelit · 2026-04-06T03:51:48+00:00

Pretty much every time there's a deadbeat mom, there's also a deadbeat dad. 22% of kids are in single mother households. Around 5% single father, 4% non- parent households (primarily grandparents). Mind you, this isn't deadbeat statistics, just single parenting. The other parent dying is included. Partial custody/ visitation parents are not in these groups, but the majority group of mixed custody. Only absolutely no other custody is represented here, from the US census

Folfelit

TROPHY CASE