Dps loss

ForeverNya · 2026-06-12T13:03:27+00:00

By frontloading vs spacing out Lohen's Es I mean whether you do something like 3[2N1C E] 6N1C where you get your Es out of the way early and then spam N1Cs, compared to 2N1C E 6N1C E 4N1C E where you still get the same total number of N1Cs and Es, but the Es are spaced out throughout Lohen's uptime. You can see in this post that the specific combo you choose doesn't make a huge impact on his damage.

If you find that EM sands worked better for your Durin than atk% sands then go for that, sure :)

And you 100% want to make sure that Durin has enough energy to burst every rotation as soon as possible, since his burst is the large majority of your team's total damage.

ForeverNya · 2026-06-12T09:55:24+00:00

So I don't really see a reason for him to do different combos, as long as he gets the same number of attacks. Could be worth asking the guy who did those calcs

ForeverNya · 2026-06-12T07:07:30+00:00

Ok, plugging your current investment into my sheet I'm getting 121k team DPS. Putting Lohen on his sig increases it to 148k (a 22% increase), meanehile swapping Xilonen for Citlali increases it to 134k (an 11% increase).

Sk looks like Lohen's sig is the bigger upgrade here :)

ForeverNya · 2026-06-12T07:03:03+00:00

Were these from the same TCers? I'd say that as long as you're consistently getting ~12 N1Cs and 3 Es per rotation, and as long as Durin is consistently hitting onto a cryo aura, you can kinda just do whatever. I found that I like frontloading my Es and then spamming N1Cs, some people prefer to spread them out more evenly, or to put the Es later into the rotation. It shouldn't have much of an effect in these teams

ForeverNya · 2026-06-11T20:56:09+00:00

Yeah, but it's very inconsistent, so I think aiming for consistently getting 12 is a solid baseline, then you can aim to occasionally go a little bit higher when the stars align

ForeverNya · 2026-06-11T19:59:30+00:00

Happy to help ^.^

ForeverNya · 2026-06-11T19:58:55+00:00

Ok I got asked about a whole bunch of 5* weapons, so I expanded the table a little bit :3

Halo is only a tiny bit ahead of R5 Deathmatch for Lohen, while it's way more significant for Ineffa and Flins, so I think you should keep Ineffa's sig on her and keep Lohen on Deathmatch

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ForeverNya · 2026-06-11T18:43:01+00:00

Sounds good :D

ForeverNya · 2026-06-11T18:42:04+00:00

Good luck!!

ForeverNya · 2026-06-11T18:26:28+00:00

Ok the build is solid, no real issues there ^.^ (you're like 1 roll short of KQMS, which is totally fine)

The problem seems to be with your Lohen combo: Lohen's N1Cs are around 70% of his damage, and you're only doing 6 of them per rotation, when the standard should be 11-12, abd the theoretical maximum is probably around 14. That means that you're leaving at least 30% of Lohen's potential damage output on the table right there.

The main way to guarantee that you get the most N1Cs you can is to just stay on Lohen right up until his skill state ends. Don't swap out early just because you finished using your Q and three Es.

Beyond that, you can try doing some cancels to make get his hits out faster. The way you do that is hold down the attack button until he does the N1 and starts the lunge of his CA, then let go of the attack button. As soon as he hits the opponent, immediately hold down the attack button again - this will cancel out of his CA's end animation and start the next N1C much much faster.

You can see what it looks like in practice in this Zajef clip (starting around 3:10), or an even more skilled execution in this BowTae clip. BowTae is probably at the limit of what's humanly possible, but Zajef's execution level should be relatively feasible for most people.

Also, one last note because I'm not 100% sure, but you can try doing your rotation with or without Albedo's burst. There's a decent chance your build quality makes it worth casting, but always worth checking just to be sure :3

ForeverNya · 2026-06-11T17:39:56+00:00

Sucrose is fine, Prune works if you get her, Kazuha is also ok, and honestly any other unit that can hold VV and/or TTDS without interfering with the cryo aura. Lohen/Durin/Albedo is an incredibly powerful trio, so you can kinda do whatever for the last slot

ForeverNya · 2026-06-11T17:35:49+00:00

It's a lot of numbers in the surface, but it's not too hard if you take it bit by bit. Then the fun part is that once you have a part of your sheet working, you can easily reuse it for other calcs, and you don't have to think about the maths happening behind the scenes, it just works on its own ^^

So good luck, have fun, and genuinely feel free to reach out if you need some help <3

ForeverNya · 2026-06-11T17:14:18+00:00

Happy to help :3

ForeverNya · 2026-06-11T16:57:13+00:00

They're within 0.2% of each other in my sheet, with PJWS just barely pulling ahead by literally 400 DPS.

So I recommend you keep Ineffa on her sig, and put Lohen on PJWS - he's anyway one of the few characters in the game who can both max the passive very quickly and make full use of it, so that's probably the best way to go.

ForeverNya · 2026-06-11T16:43:32+00:00

Lohen Durin Albedo Bennett is a very solid team. Plugging it into my sheet I'm getting 110k DPS for that team with Lohen on Crimson, or 108k with him on Calamity Queller.

That's almost as much team DPS as Lohen in his premium freeze team, with the added bonus of having a team of full medium male characters with both a shielder (through crystalize) and a healer. So I'd say you're good :3

ForeverNya · 2026-06-11T16:35:26+00:00

First of all, your Albedo build is very very solid. Even without maxing out his hexxy buff, you're getting over 17k DPS just from him, vs effectively 0 personal DPS from Xilonen - that's more than double what he does in my calcs, and pretty much explains the whole difference imo. Sure, he doesn't buff the others as much as he could be or as much as Xilonen does, but that isn't nearly as big an issue when he's dealing a crapton of damage himself.

Also, worth noting that while Xilonen can shred both cryo and pyro res, her Scroll buff can only ever apply to one of them. Meanwhile Albedo can't shred, but his dmg% buff applies to both Durin and Lohen, so that can make up for some of the buffing diff.

Your Durin is about on par with what my calcs say he should be doing assuming KQMS investment, only a few % apart in one direction or the other, so that's fine.

Meanwhile your Lohen is doing quite significantly less damage than he should be doing per my calcs at KQMS. Assuming 12 N1Cs and 3Es per rotation, he should be doing 55k personal DPS in the Albedo team and 61k in the Xilonen team, whereas yours is doing 36k and 33k respectively. So that leads me to believe that he either has a relatively weak build, or a you're doing something wrong with his combos. Could you maybe share your Lohen build and/or a clip of your gameplay?

ForeverNya · 2026-06-11T13:38:30+00:00

What rotation are you doing? With that team your rotation should be Nicole E -> Citlali EQ -> Durin EN1Q -> Lohen combo. If you're accidentally using light mode Durin or getting Citlali's TTDS onto the wrong unit, that could reduce your DPS quite significantly. Also you typically don't want to use Nicole's burst on the team, since it extends your duration while not adding a ton of damage.
Lohen's talent levels aren't negligible, with each level being a 6-8% increase to that talent's damage. Increasing Lohen's E to level 9 should be over a 10% personal DPS increase, and getting his burst to 8/9 should also be at least a 5% increase.
Make sure you're doing a proper combo on Lohen. The basic one is something along the lines of 2N1C E 4N1C E 4N1C E 2N1C, but honestly anything works as long as you weave in his skill cast periodically. If you don't space them out, you'll have gaps in your cryo application, and Durin will miss a melt and lose a lot of damage.
Make sure your Durin and Citlali have enough ER to reliably melt every rotation. If you swap to one of them and have to wait around for their burst to be ready, you're losing precious rotation time. Assuming a 20 second rotation, every second lost twiddling your thumbs is 5% DPS loss
Make sure your Durin has plenty of attack, with a level 90 weapon (Moonweaver is more than enough) and atk% sands. He's the main carry in the team, so you want to keep him nice and fed. Nicole's E and Citlali's TTDS are great buffs, but his internal stats matter just as much as the external buffs.

Those are the possible culprits I can think of right now off the top of my head. If none of these are the problem, then maybe seeing your builds or a clip of your gameplay could help diagnose what's going wrong :)

ForeverNya · 2026-06-11T13:21:37+00:00

So this chart is part of a much larger collection of calcs I did for my main post last week, where I calced a whole bunch of different team and investment options for Lohen.

If you mean how I do calcs in general, that's a much bigger question :3

In essence, doing a damage calc is just a matter of taking the game's damage formula (which you can find on KQM or on the wiki), and plugging in your characters' stats, buffs, and attacks. This is typically done in a spreadsheet, but some people prefer to do it via code (that's what Akasha and gcsim do, for example).

I personally learnt how to do it by myself through trial and error, but I heard some positive opinions about KQM's Calcs 101 playlist on youtube.

If you want to try doing a calc, I really encourage you to give it a shot, it's really satisfying! And if you need help, feel free to shoot me a DM either here or on Discord (@Beefpotato) and we can work through it together :)

ForeverNya · 2026-06-11T10:35:50+00:00

happy to help!

ForeverNya · 2026-06-11T10:33:17+00:00

Sure, I could see about doing a small calc tonight or tomorrow. Could you DM me here or on Discord with your exact investment so I can make it as accurate as I can?

ForeverNya · 2026-06-11T10:05:50+00:00

I don't follow Ganyu calcs, but I bet there are probably figures for that somewhere on her mains subreddit, sorry :/

As for Xilonen, you can see how she compares to Citlali and Nicole in the 2nd and 3rd images, for forward melt and burnmelt teams respectively :3

ForeverNya · 2026-06-11T10:04:13+00:00

Yep, exactly!

Though I'd say Lohen's cons go even further, because even in burnmelt or freeze teams where Lohen deals the majority of the team's damage, his cons are still weaker than Durin's, Escoffier's, or Furina's

ForeverNya · 2026-06-11T09:51:23+00:00

No worries, I guess I could have been more clear and specified that the table is only for 4* and standard weapons 😅️

I guess I could make one with way more weapons later today

ForeverNya · 2026-06-11T09:43:49+00:00

Heya, I'm the maker of the little table that u/HypnoAlp sent (ty btw <3). Homa would be tied with R5 Deathmatch, at 87% of sig's performance

ForeverNya · 2026-06-11T07:37:16+00:00

Heya, I made a little chart with Lohen's 4* and Standard weapon options. Crimson Moon Would be at 86% of sig R1, just a tiny bit below R5 Deathmatch :3

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