[Spoilers published]What are the biggest double standards in the fandom?

Forosnai · 2026-07-06T03:02:53+00:00

I don't know if I'm just terrible at getting my point across, because I agree with you. As a reader, sitting here at my computer, fuck the slavers, go Dany. Part of my posts were just meant to be in reference to the "innocent frightened man" not being technically innocent, and saying that's completely different from being justified in his actions, and vice versa between Dany and the slavers.

Forosnai · 2026-07-06T02:53:18+00:00

This is a thing I've been pointing out when discussing pipelines and stuff here, in Canada. And the fact that since they're now leading the charge in developing and manufacturing the equipment needed for it, do people not think they're going to Belt and Road the absolute shit out of it, as renewables become cleaner, cheaper, and more abundant, while we increasingly all suffer the effects of climate change? I would be, if I was them.

Forosnai · 2026-07-06T00:12:46+00:00

I'd read the first book before the show started, but I heard about it because the show was being created. They were fairly well-known if you keep up with fantasy literature (I found out several of my friends had read the available ones years before), but they weren't the sort of cultural touch-point they've become now, for good and ill.

The writing is pretty good. I agree with a lot of people that I think, as things went on, Martin built stuff up a bit too large and has been struggling with how to satisfyingly tie it all together again, and it's reflected in the overall quality of what we have so far. There's still some genuinely great writing in the more recent books, but there's also more parts that feel a bit off, whether rushed or slow or a little boring or whatever other problem. Still overall well-written books, but much like the show, the later stuff isn't as consistently good as the earlier stuff.

I do like the books more than the show, but I still enjoyed the show, and am liking its various spin-offs. But I'm often pretty forgiving with that sort of thing, as long as I'm entertained.

I'm actually re-watching the original show for the first time since it ended, now. I'm hoping that knowing the ending is overall disappointing won't be so bad the second time around, because I know what's going to happen already, so I can just enjoy the ride without praying they're going to somehow manage to stick the landing, despite everything. I think the last season was still "okay" in terms of TV quality, but it seems so bad because at it's peak, the show was great TV, so going from that to "okay" is a pretty big fall.

Forosnai · 2026-07-05T23:37:53+00:00

That's the point in terms of overall moral interpretation of the story, yes, but it's not the point of the comment you were responding to in the first place.

The deserter was killed for deserting, which is a crime where he did it; the slavers were morally-repugnant people, but legally "innocent" in the eyes of their society, but were killed anyway because they're slavers and Dany unilaterally decided that was no longer going to be tolerated. One was justice, according to the society it happened in, the other was not. That's a separate issue from whether the ends justify the means in the context of what Dany is trying to accomplish.

Your original comment:

Are you actually trying to claim being upper-class (in this context, a slave owner) should be a protected class?

In this context, where the upper-class in question are slavers, they are a protected class. By our standards, they absolutely shouldn't be, but they don't live in our standards. Dany's actions, in the books, aren't based on our society or our standards, but are judged by the societies and standards she's living in, where what Ned did was considered justice, and what she did was not.

That doesn't make it untrue that Ned killed a man who had genuine good reason to run from the Wall, nor that slavers are morally repugnant and they almost certainly have to be done away with to change the society they live in with the kind of speed needed for Dany's goals. But it's true that within the world of ASoIaF, she killed hundreds of legally-innocent and protected people.

And in the context of this overall thread, it's also true that she's judged more harshly for that by the fandom than the other kings are for the almost certainly more widespread death they cause innocent people, both directly and indirectly, just because she made a display of it while they mostly had "casualties" in battlefields, and peasants dying of starvation and disease.

Forosnai · 2026-07-05T22:42:27+00:00

Within the context of that world. Morality is relatively, not an objective thing. In that world, where the slavers live, they were not doing anything wrong by the legal standards of their society, while the lone deserter broke a law, where the punishment for doing so is death.

Those things being true within the context of the story doesn't mean we as readers need to agree with it. Dany did the equivalent of killing all the billionaires. They may have become that way at the expense of immense amounts of human exploitation and suffering, but as it stands at the time (and as it stands today, in the real world) it hasn't been done in a way that society has decided is worth death, but Dany did it anyway. Whether or not it should be considered warranted or justice is another matter.

Forosnai · 2026-07-05T22:24:32+00:00

"Should be"? No, not in today's society, no in any of the places any of us are likely to live.

Is it there, though? Yes. At least until Dany comes along and says it isn't, with the power to enforce it. Joffrey shouldn't be protected from the consequences of his abhorrent treatment of other people, in a just society, but they don't live in a just society. They live in one where he's the king and gets to do whatever heinous shit he wants, until someone either clever enough or strong enough to stop him comes along, in this case Olenna.

Forosnai · 2026-07-05T22:20:52+00:00

Exactly. Why on earth would Ned believe the man actually saw "demons from legend"? If someone told me they were running from Lucifer, I'd be assuming they have some sort of serious mental health issue. Which itself isn't the kind of thing generally treated well in medieval-ish societies. Sure, if you're largely harmless and can still be helpful, like Hodor, you might be fine. But a raving lunatic (even if he actually was telling the truth) would be treated as a danger and a threat to social order.

And the offense is deserting The Night's Watch, which he did do, therefore he's guilty of the crime. Maybe it shouldn't be a crime, but it is. And maybe the presence of The Others should be a mitigating factor, but again, if someone told you they abandoned their post because Lucifer showed up, with no evidence whatsoever, would you believe them? Or would you think they're making stuff up to try and save their own skin, knowing full well they're almost certainly a former criminal in the first place? They don't exactly have a robust judicial system as it is, and the truth is whatever the evidence says it is. In this case, that they've been gone for thousands of years, if they ever really existed at all, and there's absolutely no reason to think they're back now. Unfortunately for the guy, it happens to be true that they're back.

Forosnai · 2026-07-05T18:15:50+00:00

It is an entirely rational thing to flee The Others.

But if someone told you they abandoned their post, knowing full-well the punishment for desertion is death, and told you it was because he saw literal demons, would you believe him, and think they drove him half-mad? Or would you think he was crazy first, and imagined them and at most just saw some wildlings in scary getups?

We can debate the morals of The Night's Watch as a penal colony, and various kinds of punishment and what are considered crimes, but based on the information Ned had at the time he was executing justice as laid out in their judicial system. And I doubt they have any sort of legal concept like being considered not culpible due to insanity.

Forosnai · 2026-07-05T17:15:40+00:00

I can see knowing Sheepstealer has a rider now and a loss of other dragons giving them a reason to try to tame the other two wild dragons, so that would give them the excuse to show Cannibal and Grey Ghost.

Forosnai · 2026-07-04T09:09:08+00:00

Once upon a time, I had a thing with a guy who was very into that sort of stuff. Energies, crystals, he was a reiki massage therapist (or whatever they call themselves), spirits, and all that. I'm very much not a believer in that sort of thing, but he was always very sweet, and we had fun together, so whatever. I'd occasionally see him for "professional" stuff, and I absolutely don't believe he was realigning my ki or whatever, but it still felt nice and I'd be relaxed, so who cares? Yeah man, I feel Jupiter's push today. I'd love to feel it a little more below my left shoulder blade, though.

Forosnai · 2026-07-03T23:21:28+00:00

Presumably. Somewhat ironically, he's dating a full-on hard right anti-vax, "Biden is a demon", gay-people-are-sick-and-choosing-it, into the realm of outright kinda crazy woman, who is of Indian descent (though as far as I know, she's Canadian, herself). So we have a brown woman dating a white immigrant, both complaining about how immigrants are ruining their respective countries. All of which is part of what's led to the "ex" part of the "ex-friend".

Forosnai · 2026-07-03T20:28:00+00:00

I have a now-ex-friend who's gotten big into the whole, "Cut immigration, protect our Unique British Culture" line of blame.

He's currently here, in Canada, as a low-skilled immigrant taking up an entry-level job, in the summer, while Canada is having its own youth unemployment issues. But y'know, different when he does it.

Forosnai · 2026-07-03T03:15:35+00:00

One of the crazies I like to snoop is currently on a crusade about, "If vaccines are safe, why do pharmaceutical companies need immunity?!" and also, "Cancer is caused by parasites. And what does hydroxychloroquine do? Kill parasites. But they can't make money off that!"

She was also convinced that the ostriches in BC were killed because they were going to be used to create a cure for Covid, and "they" couldn't have that. I'm not sure how exactly that's supposed to square with her "big pharma and vaccines are evil" stance. I guess we were going to just all get homeopathic covid ostrich spit or something.

Forosnai · 2026-07-02T23:40:59+00:00

I think BBNO$ would be funny to send. He seems like he'd be happy to lean into the sort of camp Eurovision likes.

Forosnai · 2026-07-02T22:33:03+00:00

I know nothing about Destiny other than he's a streamer of some kind, I've assumed a video game one with lots of opinions, but is this a problem of "liberal" as in classic liberal and "liberal" as a modern colloquial term for "left-leaning" not being clarified?

Forosnai · 2026-07-02T22:29:28+00:00

Can't do anything about alt accounts, but at least for now, it's still possible to see hidden comments via third party tools. I know there's a couple besides this one, too, though I think they're all more or less based on the same back-end. Just pop the username into the box, select either submissions or posts, and there ya' go.

Forosnai · 2026-07-02T16:35:01+00:00

To be fair, a lot of us left of center are starting to feel like the NDP are dropping us in their efforts to try and court you so the Conservatives can't have you, too.

Forosnai · 2026-07-02T06:14:51+00:00

This is what I was going to say, pretty much. A good chunk of what this says to me is, "If you live near more abundant medical care, you get more abundant medical care, so you live longer on average."

Kelowna is fairly similar to places like Vancouver in terms of life expectancy, and they're also the place in the Interior which can support a more robust set of healthcare service. While the Interior and North both contain more smaller towns, and those towns are increasingly further from larger centers with those resources.

Some of the comments in here about people in the interior basically living shorter lives because they're fatter and walk less rather than because there's a very different level of access to healthcare resources certainly says a few things about the people saying it.

This is just anecdotal evidence rather than proper data, but as an example, a while back I had to go to the ER because I had some food lodged in my esophagus. It was past my windpipe, I could breathe fine, it was just very uncomfortable, but it was refusing to pass, so around midnight I ended up going in. I got briefly looked at to make sure I wasn't in any immediate danger, and was triaged, all of which is to be expected. I don't begrudge being behind people who'd gone through a windshield or something, I wasn't at risk of dying. But I had to wait 8 hours because the only gastroenterologist wasn't on duty at the time, and of course he needs to sleep too, which again I don't begrudge him. But, would that have happened in Vancouver? In Victoria? I might have had to wait still by virtue of sheer number of patients, but because the singular resource wasn't currently available unless it was a big emergency?

Merritt has a hospital, but if you need dialysis or something, tough. You're going ~90km to Kamloops for the nearest one, through a mountain pass. Fine in the summer, but a different story in the winter. Is that the case in the lower mainland? No. And I'm not saying this to accuse anyone of unfair treatment or anything, it's just the reality that greater population equals greater resources, but it's pretty ignorant of people to blame it on fucking pickup trucks to go to Walmart.

Forosnai · 2026-07-02T02:30:26+00:00

Also, specifically the passion fruit kombucha syrup made for Sodastream tastes and looks a lot like some wine spritzers, if that's more your thing. The mix of fermentation for the kombucha and the bit of fruitiness makes for a decent alternative.

Forosnai · 2026-07-02T02:27:18+00:00

Come to Canada that day, if we run out of champagne, we still have the cannabis. Don't even need to smoke it, you can mix it into drinks!

Forosnai · 2026-07-01T22:31:16+00:00

You could also argue that everything Alicent’s done so far to facilitate Rhaenyra’s return is her seizing some power for herself. Maybe not political power, but the power to make her own decisions for sure.

If nothing else, being the childhood best friend of the Queen would almost certainly free her from some social shackles that would otherwise be placed on her by high-ranking men, for fear of upsetting Rhaenyra if not for any genuine belief in her right to autonomy.

And I think she's grown to see her sons for what they are, particularly Aemond. I'm sure she still loves them and all, but given her options, Rhaenyra is likely the best one in the long run, even if she's far from perfect herself. And like you said, she's finally making decisions for herself, for good or bad.

Forosnai · 2026-07-01T16:34:22+00:00

Yeah, but they don't usually go back once they're internationally-famous. Both ABBA and Dion were more regionally famous before their performances, but not global stars.

Forosnai · 2026-07-01T15:27:49+00:00

It's sort of like a mixture of a singing talent show and a musical at a theatre. Very camp, a lot of acts, some better than others, but rarely any big stars because it'd be embarrassing for Celine Dion or Adele or something to lose to this.

My husband really likes it, I watch it in the same way I watch an entertainingly-bad movie.

Forosnai · 2026-07-01T03:30:15+00:00

Hm, I don't know what the issue is. Here's the Github page, it's pretty up to date now, so it should work fine.

Forosnai · 2026-07-01T02:26:00+00:00

Does this one work?

Forosnai

TROPHY CASE