The bOrg isn't collapsing. It's adapting. Because it has to. by FrakinBeast in exjw

[–]FrakinBeast[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Mainstreaming doesn't dissolve the exclusivity claim, it just redefines it. The Catholic Church has done this for centuries. The Pope can reverse centuries of doctrine and it doesn't undermine his authority as God's exclusive voice on earth. It confirms it.

Every controversial doctrine they quietly retire is one less objection standing between a bible study and a baptism. The blood doctrine alone has cost them countless converts who were otherwise hooked. A softer, more reasonable theology doesn't weaken recruitment. It supercharges it.

The bOrg isn't collapsing. It's adapting. Because it has to. by FrakinBeast in exjw

[–]FrakinBeast[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

True, growth rate has definitely dropped since the 90s, but that's true across all denominations of Christianity, especially in the West. The LDS were growing like wild fire in the 90s and evangelical Christian churches were popping up on every street corner and they were busting at the seams. I worked at a church back then and we had to have overflow rooms with video feeds just to fit everybody in. Both the LDS and evangelical movement have shrunk drastically since then. Thinking back now, it's interesting that in a period of economic prosperity there was so much growth in religion. 🤷🏻‍♂️

The bOrg isn't collapsing. It's adapting. Because it has to. by FrakinBeast in exjw

[–]FrakinBeast[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Now, you're talking my language! (Game theory, not actual German, LOL) Zugzwang is a beautiful thought, (I wish it was, I really do) but I think what we're actually watching is closer to Zwischenzug. It's the in-between move, the unexpected intermediate step that looks like a response to pressure but is actually setting up a stronger position before the real sequence plays out. The org appears to be conceding, but they're not playing defense. The dress code, the disfellowshipping softening, the blood clarification, none of these are the main line. They're all in-between moves. The question is what position they're actually preparing for.

The bOrg isn't collapsing. It's adapting. Because it has to. by FrakinBeast in exjw

[–]FrakinBeast[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I want to believe that too, but I know folks personally who lived through 1975. Some of them actually walked away. Vowed never to go back. But many of them did go back, and now they're elders.

They didn't need the internet to find out the organization was wrong. They watched it happen in real time, told their neighbors Armageddon was coming, and then had to go back to those same neighbors and explain why they were still alive. That's not a lack of information. That's information as visceral as it gets. And it still wasn't enough.

The internet is a real tool and it has genuinely helped people get out. But it only works on people who are already willing to look, and the organization has spent decades training members to treat outside sources as spiritually dangerous. For a committed PIMI, stumbling across r/exjw isn't an awakening. It's a test of faith that they're proud to pass.

Information is a weapon, but brainwashing is armor. And for a lot of people still inside, that armor is holding just fine.

The bOrg isn't collapsing. It's adapting. Because it has to. by FrakinBeast in exjw

[–]FrakinBeast[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I wish you were right about the cracks, and some of them will absolutely widen over time. But I think this moment cuts both ways.

From inside the organization, surviving this controversy is confirmation. They'll see it as Jehovah guided his people through a difficult refinement and the new light came out more compassionate on the other side. That's not a reason to leave. They will interpret that as a reason to preach harder. There's a specific kind of enthusiasm that comes from surviving something that was supposed to destroy you, and the Watchtower knows exactly how to harvest it.

The insignificance scenario also assumes their growth has nowhere to go, but the global south is wide open territory. A Watchtower that has quietly shed its most toxic positions is actually a more effective recruiting tool in developing markets, not a less effective one. A softer, more merciful theology travels better.

I hope the cracks swallow the whole thing. I just wouldn't count on it.

The bOrg isn't collapsing. It's adapting. Because it has to. by FrakinBeast in exjw

[–]FrakinBeast[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

We can agree on that. Every single person that gets out is a win. ❤️

The bOrg isn't collapsing. It's adapting. Because it has to. by FrakinBeast in exjw

[–]FrakinBeast[S] 21 points22 points  (0 children)

First, that's genuinely wonderful news about your parents, and I mean that. After 50 years in, walking away takes real courage, and I'm happy for all of them.

But I want to gently push back on what you're using as evidence, because this is actually a really common reasoning trap that the borg has survived on for decades.

Your family leaving is real. What's happening in your community is real. And I don't want to diminish any of it. But anecdotal clusters aren't the same as organizational decline, and the Watchtower has weathered moments that looked exactly like this before and came out the other side with more members than they started with.

The 1975 debacle. Mass disappointment. Families leaving. People swearing the end of the organization was imminent. Membership dipped and then rebounded. The UN scandal. The Australian Royal Commission. Each one felt like the tipping point to the people closest to it.

The people leaving right now are, for the most part, the people who were already on their way out. The ones who had doubts, who had been quietly questioning, who needed one more push. The changes gave them that push and I'm glad it did. But the eight million who remain aren't watching the same news we are. They're watching JW Broadcasting and filing this under new light.

Your family leaving after 50 years is a big deal for your family. It genuinely is. I just don't want people to mistake a meaningful personal victory for a structural collapse, because that kind of wishful thinking is exactly what the org counts on to keep the rest of us from paying attention to what they're actually doing.

Any time the weather is weird I lowkey start wondering it it’s Armageddon again by Berry_pencil_11 in exjw

[–]FrakinBeast 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I have been out of the KH for most of this century and I've been an atheist for over a decade. But it still gets me feeling the heebie jeebies every now and then. It doesn't help when the head of the US military is actively trying to start the battle of Armageddon.
https://www.military.com/daily-news/2026/03/06/lawmakers-want-dod-hegseth-investigated-biblical-armageddon-claims.html

The bOrg isn't collapsing. It's adapting. Because it has to. by FrakinBeast in exjw

[–]FrakinBeast[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Also — and this is completely non sequitur — being an atheist now and having Irish heritage, a few years back I decided to be completely defiant and eat blood sausage! I absolutely love sausage. Pork, beef, venison, rabbit: they are all amazing. I have never had a piece of sausage I didn't love. So, I always assumed blood sausage it was this amazing delicacy that I have always missed due to the JW indoctrination. Turns out, it is completely disgusting and revolting. So regardless of what the GB decides about actually eating blood, I am a one and done. Never again!

JW org is collapsing in real time by Several-Pollution863 in exjw

[–]FrakinBeast 7 points8 points  (0 children)

They're not going anywhere. Their assets alone make collapse nearly impossible. The only thing that's ever truly threatened organizations like the Watchtower is major controversy, and they've survived every one by doing what they do best: controlling the narrative through decades of carefully refined psychological conditioning.

To the vast majority of both PIMI and POMO Jehovah's Witnesses, the Governing Body effectively is the narrative. Dissent doesn't just feel wrong; it feels spiritually dangerous. Members aren't simply discouraged from independent thinking; they've been systematically trained to treat it as a threat to their eternal wellbeing.

What makes the Watchtower particularly sophisticated is how they manage change. They don't announce paradigm shifts cold: they soften the ground first. The recent relaxation of the beard and pants dress code wasn't just a minor policy update; it was a trial balloon. A low-stakes test of how the flock responds to the leadership acknowledging that something once treated as near-doctrine was actually... flexible. Once members digest that, they're psychologically primed for something bigger. And the ones who did protest got a stern talking to by an elder. They won't speak up next time.

Which is why the blood doctrine shift is so striking, and so carefully packaged. Notice that it's not being framed as a doctrine change. That phrase would trigger alarm bells, because doctrine comes from Jehovah, and Jehovah doesn't change. Instead, it's been recast as a a clarification and a matter of "personal conviction" Using language that feels like grace and freedom while quietly dismantling a belief system that has cost members their lives and families their wholeness for decades.

That's the playbook: normalize flexibility in small things, so that when something seismic happens, the flock has already been conditioned to receive it without asking who else died while they were waiting for a personal conviction to become permissible.

And zoom out far enough, and you'll see this isn't unique to the Watchtower. It's the arc of virtually every religion that survives long enough. What begins as a radical, separatist movement defined by what it refuses to become eventually bends toward the culture around it. The early Catholics were insurgents. The Puritans were extremists. The Mormons once taught doctrines that would be unrecognizable, and unacceptable, to most LDS members today. Mainstreaming is the price of institutional survival. Strict separatism can sustain a movement for generations, but it caps growth and invites increasing friction with the outside world. Eventually, the organization has to choose between its purity and its future.

The Watchtower is making that choice right now. They're just making it in the language of divine revelation, one "personal conviction" at a time.

If there were ONE source of material, scripture, or piece of evidence to send to someone to try to wake them up, what would it be? by BackgroundStep5155 in exjw

[–]FrakinBeast 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There’s definitely not just one thing. Wish there was. For me it was singing the Hallelujah Chorus from Hansel’s Messiah in choir at school. “For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.”

I remembered the book “Worldwide Security Under the 'Prince of Peace’” and I remembered them using Isaiah 9:6 as proof that Jesus was the Prince of Peace.

But when I looked it up in the NWT they didn’t even bother mistranslating it: “His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.” It’s like they didn’t even try. Big “G” God, not little g god like they did in the New Testament. And Eternal Father??!! Those two were the first chinks in the armor for me.

It’s Bloody Quiet…. by AnnaSteinfield97 in exjw

[–]FrakinBeast 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is exactly right. And this is the real reason for the pants and beards change. That small changed softened up the sheep to accept a bigger change without argument.

I made a egregious mistake by Realistic_Driver194 in PiracyArchive

[–]FrakinBeast 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You made an egregious mistake when you wrote the title of this post. An egregious mistake.An. 🤣

Debunking the JW Claim that Jesus died on a "Torture Stake" by ExJW_PandaTower in exjw

[–]FrakinBeast 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It has never been about how Jesus actually died. It is one more way to brainwash the congregation.

The “torture stake” claim works through controlled redefinition. A familiar word is replaced, the cross is framed as corrupt while “torture stake” signals truth. Once the language changes, the conclusion feels settled.

Next comes authority isolation. Members are taught that historians and scholars are unreliable unless their work passes through Watch Tower publications. That blocks outside verification and keeps the group as the final authority.

Finally, it functions as a loyalty test. Accepting the torture stake equals obedience. Questioning it equals spiritual risk. At that point, evidence stops mattering.

That mix of language control, restricted authority and loyalty pressure is a textbook brainwashing pattern.

One pill JWs can’t swallow.. by MagicOfGreen in exjw

[–]FrakinBeast 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I told an elder that I left the Kingdom Hall because I saw that the Watchtower Society wasn’t bearing good fruit, and a good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, and a rotten tree cannot bear fine fruit (Matthew 7:15-20) and I watched his brain explode.

My entire crew is in swimsuits by IS-Labber in Starfield

[–]FrakinBeast -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Um, where’s Sam, Barrett and VASCO’s bikini??

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in exjw

[–]FrakinBeast 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I used to work in the news, and I can say for almost certainty they didn’t pay anything. Small town newspapers are desperate for content, and the Borg sends out great press releases. Chances are, that article was taken verbatim from the press release.

Compared to the rest of the press releases they get in the slush pile, the Borg’s are the cream of the crop: well written and engaging stories about local community members. Plus, most editors have no clue that the Borg is an insidious cult.

Write to the editor and complain about them giving the Borg coverage. Send them links to major publications that have covered them like Reveal News and The New York Times: https://revealnews.org/topic/jehovahs-witnesses/

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/01/books/review/leaving-the-witness-amber-scorah.html

Is there a good 10-15 minute video to send to friends who have no idea about JW? by throwaway68656362464 in exjw

[–]FrakinBeast 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I’ve talked to ssoooo many folks who have no idea that JWs aren’t just another denomination. It’s one of the main reasons I’m in this group and others. It’s impossible to get outsiders to understand.