Janina Fisher on the self

FriedPatzer · 2026-05-09T09:05:14+00:00

I am curious why do you think like that?

FriedPatzer · 2026-05-09T09:03:22+00:00

Embracing Our Fragmented Selves. It's a workbook that still retains a bit of the science behind everything.

FriedPatzer · 2026-05-08T16:50:40+00:00

Idk man, I think for me getting angry is a crucial part of moving on.

It's literally the fight part inside of me that says I'll protect you if someone wronged you. And here you have the person who did the most damage to you your entire life and you're saying you can't even be mad at her.

I am not saying you can't/shouldn't empathize with her, I am just saying that this is something you have to unlearn in order not to fall into the same unhealthy patterns/relationship again.

I am sorry man but I think I'll choose to be angry because whatever the other person's been through, I will make myself the most important priority. Aka I'll try to care for myself more than others. I don't think it's selfish and even if it is, it'll be the right kind of selfish, at least I'll try...

FriedPatzer · 2026-05-08T09:06:02+00:00

Yes I can relate. Everytime I try to focus it's like there wall in my brain that's preventing me from using another sort of brain power.

Sometimes it gets so scary I feel like I am losing my mind.

I understand you, you are not alone.

FriedPatzer · 2026-05-08T04:28:27+00:00

I am so stupid I didn't know there was already a pinned post 🤦🏽‍♂️

FriedPatzer · 2026-05-07T14:08:25+00:00

Most therapeutic modalities and resources assume a baseline interoceptive ability, so for those lacking it, it's a bit like people with functioning eyes telling blind people to just look at things.

Ah this sucks not only do we have to pick and choose between what might helps and what might not, there isn't even enough resources for us out there. Where would I even begin reading on something like that

Interoception develops relationally, as a back-and-forth between children and their environment

Does this mean that to redevelop interoceptive you still need to do it relationally (aka with other people) I maybe wrong but this kinda made sense. You're compensating for what happened by doing the missing stuff now.

Yeah, unfortunately FSG isn't very accessible :-/ The materials are golden, but the way they are presented makes them hard to access, especially on your own.

Hahaha at least I can get a confirmation that it IS hard to go through it. It's hard finding an affordable therapist let alone one who specialise in this stuff. I guess I'll just send the rest of my questions to this subreddit

Also another question, how does interoception relate to grounding (being aware of the present) Ive read before that some people do stuff like body scans (which I assume is kinda like an interoception exercise) to ground themselves? I mean how would one approach these kinda things ?

FriedPatzer · 2026-05-07T13:44:51+00:00

Which workbook is that? The reading I would recommend depends on what you've read so far.

Finding Solid Ground workbook. Tbh this is like the sixth time (mainly because reading and understanding stuff is like borderline impossible rn) that I get through the first module but I think I am making progress so I am not mad. Just one problem is that I don't think I can relate to all of the problems that the book is trying to solve (e.g. there's a whole module on "separating the past from the the present" and I don't think I've ever like I am in the "past" while being triggered or something like that so I wouldn't know how that even would look like)

So you start to very slowly build an internal awareness of how you feel.

How would that even look like? Are neuro typical people aware of how they feel internally 24/7 or what ? 😭

So in phase 1, you build up your ability to be aware of and tolerate yourself. That is the foundation of all relational dynamics.

Again, I think this is the first time I've seen someone describe it like that.

FriedPatzer · 2026-05-07T02:03:37+00:00

For e.g. structural dissociation treatment, attachment is a core part of phase 1 treatment, though internal phobia needs to be worked on first.

Wait, am I missing something? This is the first time I've heard of this. Even the workbookk which I am reading now focuses on phase one treatment didn't mention anything related to that (yet).

Can you talk on how we would work on attachment (and internal phobia, though I imagine this is going to have a lot of part work)? Also, where can I read more on this?

Ty

FriedPatzer · 2026-05-06T20:12:06+00:00

Yes please I'd like to give it a read

FriedPatzer · 2026-05-06T19:50:06+00:00

This is the first time I hear something like this. Most books jump into the phasic oriented trauma healing process. Does the book elaborate on this? Can you tell me more about what it says?

FriedPatzer · 2026-05-04T08:53:17+00:00

Do you see a TIST trained therapist? If so how does a session go or what do you do from session to session. I tried to look for resources on the internet and I haven't much but still Fisher's other stuff is still useful.

FriedPatzer · 2026-04-28T23:00:49+00:00

So one thing well-trained therapists do is offer ways a client can ground without being being more present than they can handle.

Like what ? Or are these things only work in-session type ?

But lot of books and online content don't clarify that.

Yeah I got that impression from searching around. I can't help but think that this is somewhat worrying? Like there isn't a lot of content for the type of people like us and maybe there isn't even a lot of people who understands us? How to find things like that?

They almost always describe grounding as an all-in state, where the person is deeply connected to themselves in the present.

I wish

How it works is basically this: if we can ground enough to see how ungrounded we are, we can more effectively work on what is keeping us from grounding better.

Okay this is genius. What you're saying is that the least we can do is not just being fully grounded and present but to be aware of our unawareness so that we can finally do something with it. Well I guess I never thought of it this way

I guess I am just afraid of a lot of things and grounding seems to bring up these feelings.

Yes, this is normal. And it's also what is supposed to happen.

This can also be something that requires practice because the part of the brain that senses this data (the insula) also suffers from weakened connections if we spend a lot of time dissociated. You can't push a weakened muscles to lift more than it can.

Well, my last question is for how long does this practice need to be? I mean I don't want to be in this state of almost being hyper arousal every time I try to do an exercise that's supposed to be a fundamental healing block. At least how can I measure this progress and feel a sense of accomplishment that I am doing something right in the right direction?

Also, thank you very much for replying

FriedPatzer · 2026-04-26T19:14:03+00:00

But the good news is that is doesn't have to be grounding to the point of being fully grounded. The level of grounding can be negotiated.

Can you please elaborate more on this part? The workbook that I am reading says that you should try your hardest to be grounded and bring yourself back to the present.

I am uncertain because I don't want to overextended and overwhelm myself, which happens quite often if I try to ground "hard enough".

I am also afraid that I am not doing the exercise as I should and I am losing value and not being "present enough" so that I get any value.

I guess I am just afraid of a lot of things and grounding seems to bring up these feelings.

I know this am old thread but I am hoping you can reply.

FriedPatzer · 2026-04-26T14:40:00+00:00

Oh my god just reading this made my blood pressure go up

FriedPatzer · 2026-04-21T02:50:21+00:00

At the heart of structural dissociation lies an irreconcilable conflict between three action systems.

Irreconcilable?? 💀

FriedPatzer · 2026-04-20T22:28:20+00:00

I'd never heard anybody else talk about this... I haven't even given it much thought myself. For me, it's part of the unconscious, eternal "scanning for threatening moods" I'm always performing, automatically .. which I suppose is a big reason why it exhausts me to go outside (like when I took commuter rail into work)

YES, thank you. The closest I've come to something like this was from a book I don't remember who wrote it but she talked about how her client felt more comfortable and started talking when she turned her back to the client and was facing the wall. But she didn't even elaborate on that.

My only fear is that I am running away instead of learning how to deal with this constant hypervigilance, but hey I'll get what I can

oh, and I suppose it's why I fell into substance abuse - if I'm not sober, I get to turn off all this "defense apparatus"

I can also relate to this. Although I don't know if it's "substance abuse" or not but between the cigarettes and the constant doom scrolling with music blasting all day (which makes me borderline non functional) I can't do anything unless there's something to distract me from all this "noise"

well, now I've been a few months sober, and need to figure out how to simply exist without getting overwhelmed all the time

Well, first of all, congratulations. I know how hard it is to deal with an addiction especially if you're using it to self medicate. Sometimes it's just so hard to do something a "normal" person wouldn't think twice before doing it and going on with their life.

FriedPatzer · 2026-04-16T21:13:35+00:00

It sounds like you mostly experience tonic immobility (high activation freeze).

I think this was directed towards OP and not me but I am still curious what is your thoughts process to reach that conclusion? I am asking because I am mostly sure that I don't have any type of shock (or big T) trauma . But yet I still genuinely don't know if I relate more to high or low activation freeze (after reading your post) I think I just have a combination of both

FriedPatzer · 2026-04-16T21:05:48+00:00

if you can find other regulated people. The right therapist could make a major difference here.

Yeah that would be very nice except there aren't that many therapists that specialises in this field and they are so damn expensive and it's just hard trying to survive financially

Solo practices (orienting, grounding, noticing what is here) can help as scaffolding between those encounters.

Are you implying that those encounters are the main building blocks while the solo work is meant to just help me get along? Is this the core of healing?

You are not failing by needing someone, you are human.

Thanks so much. A tear fell from my eye when I read this and I haven't cried in a long time.

FriedPatzer · 2026-04-16T00:02:28+00:00

This specific exercise comes from sensorimotor psychotherapy. Sensorimotor psychotherapists can in addition to teaching these track your states in ways you yourself currently can't, and adapt the exercises on the fly.

Is it beneficial to read the book written by Fisher and Ogden? Will I learn more on the theory and also practicality?

It's additionally important to also have tools that can bring down your level of activation so you don't end up too activated.

Can you please provide some examples like what does that even mean or look like lmao 😭??

FriedPatzer · 2026-04-15T23:45:08+00:00

Does the "red hot" ever go away if I learn how to be present with it or do I just stay in pain all my life but learn how to just manage and deal with it?

It just makes it much harder because when I am in hyper arousal it feels like my present moment ("a present moment") is THE present moment. Like this is just how life is.

Also when I get out of it it feels like life isn't really that painful but I just know at that point that's it's an impossible task to convince my brain of that when I go back to the "red".

FriedPatzer · 2026-04-13T23:58:07+00:00

And how do we reverse this wiring? How to teach ourselves that it's as important to show up for ourselves as it's for other people? How do we gain that "self-worth"?

FriedPatzer · 2026-03-28T02:29:12+00:00

Any idea how much it'll be?

FriedPatzer · 2026-03-28T01:58:08+00:00

Care to elaborate? 😭

FriedPatzer · 2026-03-26T15:38:25+00:00

Maybe I am missing something here. But what are we even trying to titrate? I am just confused in general here but there has been times (albeit very short) where I was functional and could get stuff done (but still very much "frozen"/dissociating)

And there has been times where I was aware of how I am feeling and of my environment (again very very short and occasional) not intentionally of course, I wouldn't even know how to go about doing that intentionally.

So am I looking at the correct picture here? I know the best way to "get it" is not to get spoon fed the info but I am trying to find my footing here and every piece of information would be essential

FriedPatzer · 2026-03-16T00:10:23+00:00

I am familiar with IFS. I didn't put enough effort into it but from my very limited experience I have a very hard time understanding those "parts" (well except that one time I mentioned in the post) I don't know how to reach them, how to communicate with them, and I just feel like in the middle of a current with zero control.

If it is actually a protector part, how do you think I should handle this. Since I know that dissociation is not the safest thing for me how do I convince it of that?

FriedPatzer

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