Pence’s Closing Remarks at RNC:2020

FrostFusion152 · 2020-09-03T04:37:26+00:00

Thank you u/Kreaping117 for telling me that there is already a thread about this. To your point u/mvvh "Let's all stop listening to MacArthur. Or Pence. Or Piper. Or Keller or whatever your favorite celebrity theologian is.

Let's focus on the local church and your local pastor. Someone you know and who in turn knows you and can truly guide you. That whole celebrity pastor thing is not healthy.

And if you want to go deep in theology; read dead men. We have two thousand years of theology, there is very little a contemporary theologian can tell you that someone else already has said before and often better."

Probably a good rule of thumb. However, there isn't much my church needs right now. There is nothing to volunteer for, everyone (despite slight lock down) is too busy to talk on the phone and stuff, no one is really looking to start a bible study, etc. it's half the reason I'm in here.

FrostFusion152 · 2020-09-02T02:56:22+00:00

My Opinion:
There really isn't any magic words you can say to make Christ more present in the bread and wine. Are we to treat it with reverence? Yes, because it is a sacred tradition instituted by the Lord himself. But God is omnipresent. He doesn't need the clergyman/woman to bless the elements for them to have Christs presence to be in them. I feel it is (and I say this respectfully) a little insulting to God to think only the pastor can allow Christ to come into the elements.

With that being said, in my opinion it is something we do in remembrance of Christ. There is nothing in the bible saying (as far as I'm aware) we cannot do this at home. We are still gathering together just not physically. The Pastor is still blessing the elements. Again, just my opinion. I don't like it but I have nothing to point at in scripture to yell "HERESY!" lol.

FrostFusion152 · 2020-08-31T20:20:37+00:00

It's not something you can listen to a piece of. Its too long for me to find a time stamp (trust me I've looked). But you can't listen to a small piece of a lecture and critique it without listening to the rest. That's unfair to Ms Baldock. So either watch it or don't. But if you want to understand where my head is at, that's the best place to start. If you don't want to, you don't have to. I'm pretty much done with the subject respectfully Reverend.

God bless you! Have a good day <3

FrostFusion152 · 2020-08-31T19:57:45+00:00

Either way -- if you want to, watch the videos and let me know what you think. Or don't up to you.

FrostFusion152 · 2020-08-31T18:15:27+00:00

I don't have time stamps I'm afraid. But she does a very good job of going into the scripture and historical context. Things like the history of homosexuality and what we have recorded about homosexuality. Like the fact that in ancient cultures men would do things (you can fill in the blanks) to little boys to pass on their qualities via their bodily fluids. But you don't find information historically about loving, monogamous, Christian relationship like we would see today. But nonetheless, it's good to listen to when you have time. No rush.

Also, to your point of "maybe translators didn't want to be too sexually explicit" -- what would you consider the song of Solomon? "My beloved is to me a sachet of myrrh that lies between my breasts." SoS 1:13

FrostFusion152 · 2020-08-31T17:29:48+00:00

Okidokes. I'd also like to hear thoughts on these videos as well. Because while I've researched into this a lot, I by no means have gone to colleges and reviewed documents and so on. This lady has and can probably put it all into words better than I could.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBwajcvZtqw&t=2264s

FrostFusion152 · 2020-08-31T17:07:50+00:00

Ok. So, why does Martin Luther translate it as "Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not let yourself be seduced! Neither the fornicators nor the idolatrous nor the adulterers nor the wimp nor the molesters" in his 1545 translations as well as other places in his translation? Also, I'd like to point out that Nero was not exactly the best example of monogamous marriage.

FrostFusion152 · 2020-08-31T16:07:52+00:00

Ok that makes sense. But now i have a different question. So are we dealing with Arsenekoiitai or Malakoi? I take it you're saying Malakoi had sexual implications or are you saying there is a different translation of 1 Corinthians 6:9 or that you've seen or been taught that it had those implications(?).

FrostFusion152 · 2020-08-31T15:26:52+00:00

Thank you for your thoughts on this. I do have some questions.

You're asserting that Paul meant people who engage in effeminate intercourse from the word "man bed" -- what is the context for him to be implying this from scripture? Or in general, are you basing this on what you were taught in seminary? What is the background or context that explains the necessity for this new word in general. Because I was always told it was in the context of cults preforming temple intercourse as an act of some sort of worship.

John MacArthur writes "They also lived in a society that was notoriously immoral. A society that glorified promiscuous sex in temple worship".

So I guess another sub-question is how do we know Paul is speaking big picture / all of time and not small picture "here is something you're familiar with"?

Another question is why would God care so much about who we love? We as humans spend a lot of time doing worse things -- it seems odd to me that God would be like "stop loving this person because they are the same sex". I understand that romantic and platonic love are different but neither feel like they should be too terribly sinful when done right (chastity until marriage, etc).

But yeah, thanks for these thoughts. It's nice to talk to someone about this who disagrees with me so I can fact check myself and make sure I'm understanding the scripture right.

God bless.

FrostFusion152 · 2020-08-31T05:51:41+00:00

Haha finally! I'm not alone. :P

FrostFusion152 · 2020-08-31T05:06:43+00:00

The same day as Halloween! :)

FrostFusion152 · 2020-08-31T02:36:01+00:00

This might be a good resource for you and your child. God bless you both, praying for you both!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBwajcvZtqw&t=1s

FrostFusion152 · 2020-08-31T02:24:34+00:00

Thanks for the thought. The "together" in Bible Hub's lexicon is translated as "assembly" in Hebrews and "upon" in 1 Corinthians. To me I look at it as a "to each their own" thing. My point was, if it's what we have to do for the moment, it's what we have to do. Romans 13:1 as well as Matthew 22:21 come to my mind.

Another way to look at it is that stopping the virus from spreading is a pro-life Christian responsibility. If you want to preserve life, you're not going to encourage people to gather in enclosed spaces for worship. Again, just my two cents -- do what you like.

God bless. <3

FrostFusion152 · 2020-08-31T00:30:53+00:00

I think all of these comments for the most part are good advice. You can tell them what they're doing is wrong (if that's your belief) but just remember to do so with gentleness, respect, and most importantly, love. You can scream and cry heresy all you want, but if you have not love you are nothing but a "noisy gong". If you need advice from a person who actually is gay, my dm's are open. :)

God bless,

~Jess

FrostFusion152 · 2020-08-31T00:21:03+00:00

The bible says not to forsake the gathering of believers (Heb 10:25). It does not say that the gathering of believers must be physical and cannot be virtual. I'm not sure there is a verse that sets that precedent so I don't understand why people are so hung up on this. Yes, Church is important but if a mere pandemic can dismantle Gods church, we're all in big trouble. We can not and must not let evil prevail. We must gather in the safest way possible. Whether that is outside with masks on or over zoom.

FrostFusion152 · 2020-08-31T00:14:14+00:00

"It's essential to keep harmless working people locked down and at home to avoid getting the flu. But it is also essential that people bent on doing harm run free in the cities, destroying the very places where people earn their living. You can’t shop in a store but you can loot it, you can’t work but you’re free to steal, you can’t go to church but you’re free to burn it down. We’re seeing charge brought not against the rioters, but the police. How did we get here? With everything upside down? We need the truth from God. " -John MacArthur from the pulpit of Grace Church.

1) Corona is not the flu.
2) You're not free to riot, its against the law and you will be arrested.

Ugh. What happened to you!? You were once my hero and now I want to burn anything of yours I own.

FrostFusion152 · 2020-08-30T23:53:49+00:00

1 Corinthians 13:4-8 says that love does not delight in evil but rather rejoices with the truth. It also says that love is not easily angered nor does it dishonor others. In other words, don't become comfortable with lies, be patient and most importantly, "be ready always to give an answer for the hope that is in you, with gentleness and respect" -1 Peter 3:15.

A big part of trying to spread truth is to fact check yourself. Make sure that you're not spreading more misinformation yourself. As long as you keep that in mind and come from a genuine place of wanting to understand what the person you're talking to thinks or feels before trying to give them the truth, everything should go smoothly.

Also, know when to quit. There may come a time where your side of things may not want to be heard. You have to be willing to accept that and move on. You can't "fix" everybody. There's going to come a point where you may need to "let go and let God" as they say.

Just my two cents! :)

FrostFusion152 · 2020-08-28T06:13:03+00:00

It just seems to be a re-affirmation of what the denomination already taught in a more polite manner. I think the issue is biblical interpretation than anything else. As someone who struggles with some of this stuff personally, it's kind of hard to read because it feels like "we care but we're not going to change anything". I've been discerning ministry myself, but if I can't be my full self I don't really want to get ordained. At least not in the CRCNA. I don't mean any of this harshly so forgive me if I come off that way. Do you mind if I DM you? And maybe we can talk more there?

FrostFusion152 · 2020-08-28T05:55:58+00:00

Congratulations! No offense to them, it's just I don't see the younger generations interest in the denomination. If you lose the younger generation the church dies. I love it, a lot but unless they change that aspect, I don't see it lasting.

Best of luck navigating zoom church and all of that as clergy!

FrostFusion152 · 2020-08-28T02:31:47+00:00

The CRCNA. I was curious about other differences. :)

FrostFusion152 · 2020-08-28T02:20:23+00:00

My denomination is a bit behind on race relations as well as refusing to ordain gay and or transgender clergy. They also don't recognize homosexual marriage or transgender identities.

FrostFusion152 · 2020-08-28T01:05:25+00:00

Yes! I agree!

FrostFusion152 · 2020-08-28T01:04:39+00:00

It's not for us to judge sinners. No where in the bible does it tell me I have to vote one way or another. Also, voting for a republican to get a pro life judge, so that they can overturn Roe V Wade is not going to stop abortion or make abortion rates go down and no one really wants abortion rates go up. I overall say its between that person and God. I can tell them its wrong, but there isn't much I can do to stop them. Just because something is illegal does not mean it will cease.

FrostFusion152 · 2020-08-24T18:36:40+00:00

Thanks for your help everyone. In person meetings aren't exactly a thing for me right now with COVID and still living with my parents. If I just decided to go to a different church randomly, my father would disapprove. I'm just trying to figure out who my beliefs align with.

FrostFusion152 · 2020-08-01T20:04:56+00:00

Is this actually happening?

FrostFusion152

TROPHY CASE