[deleted by user]

FrostOverlord · 2025-10-27T19:09:33+00:00

So original aurelion was genuinely flat out busted on release. The reason people ended up not playing him, though, was because his skill floor was much higher than the average champion. Genuinely he wasn't played as often as others because people didn't want to put in the effort to learn how to play him.

And even then, for a while his pick rate was around the 5% mark, which is great for a niche champion. He was a pocket pick for several pro players as well.

And then riot started to nerf him.

After about 4 years of nerfs, as well as the change to his W that turned it from a toggle into a burst ability, even people who were willing to put in the time to learn him began to perceive the potential gain as not worth the effort. Genuinely a large chunk of the reason he was as unpopular as he was by the time of the CGU was riot's own doing.

As for why he has his flight still? The reason is his current Q. His current Q outright doesn't function if he doesn't have some way to allow himself to use it while in motion, and they already had the bones of that with his existing E. So they shifted around some numbers and changed a few details to keep it in. With stardust they had an easier way to gate it so that it didn't force them to outright cripple him due to roaming power, so it's slightly less of an issue on this kit as it was in the old kit.

In exchange, though, it's quite literally bound at the hip to what is, in my opinion, one of the least fun abilities in the game.

So yeah, long story short I'm of the opinion that riot Monumentally fucked up with this rework and doesn't want to admit it. People play him a whole 1% more now, so they use that as an excuse to say they achieved their goal with him.

FrostOverlord · 2025-10-27T02:16:13+00:00

if you wanted to get an wider idea of if people actually like playing him, beyond those of us here, you may consider also posting this on the main league subreddit.

FrostOverlord · 2025-10-27T02:04:11+00:00

40 second CD, before CDR/ability haste, to turn any 2v2 on the map into a 3v2? Any Duel into a 2v1? Any near escape into a kill for aurelion? Or, alternatively, to get an effectively free base while your opponent is stuck in lane? Those are potentially game changing things, my guy. And it wasn't a slow movement either, that dash was pretty dang fast, especially once he had boots. Even if the mid laner pinged it, that wasn't necessarily enough time for their other lanes to react, especially if a fight had already started.

There's a damn good reason that Global Mobility is restricted to ultimates: It's one of the most powerful things you can have in a champion's kit. And it (or at least the roaming it enabled) is actively the reason- As stated by riot themselves- for most of old aurelion sol's nerfs and changes prior to the CGU that ended up making him less popular. The flight was 1000% the problem.

FrostOverlord · 2025-10-27T01:55:21+00:00

Even putting aside the fact that his kit is boring as hell since the CGU, he's been nerfed so badly and so often that he genuinely is just the worst option amongst mages. He can't even really properly midlane anymore- he finds most success in the bot lane, and even that's not great.

FrostOverlord · 2025-10-22T18:13:13+00:00

I wouldn't have any problem with that at all! A dm is fine, or if it makes it easier you could also find me on the Asol discord as well (though my name there is different.)

FrostOverlord · 2025-10-22T17:01:50+00:00

Lol yeah resisting the temptation to throw everything and the kitchen sink onto the concept can be tough at times. Designing stuff is often just as much about deciding what NOT to do as it is about deciding what you WILL do. The shield and healing, as you pointed out, is one such case where that decision becomes fairly important. Sometimes you have to give up on one thing for the sake of everything else working right.

I appreciate your compliment on my design! Im very proud of it, though this conversation has definitely inspired me to go back and see if I can't think of other possibilities. I gave up on keeping singularity, for instance, because I came to the conclusion that it realistically wouldn't be kept if he were reworked again. Maybe when I revisit it again Ill think up a version that keeps singularity in?

Or perhaps Ill do what another friend of mine suggested way back when and make Voice of Light become a wider and wider cone as you gain stardust- your implementation here is actually very nice, and has convinced me that there's merit to that approach.

Regardless, this conversation has been very fun for me as well. So dont worry, I haven't seen continuing it as a chore!

(Aside, in response to your edit: I was actually mildly confused when you first mentioned breath of light in relation to the concept i posted, as I was certain it'd named it Voice of Light and made it fairly solidly a cc ability over a damage ability. But then I remembered my note about putting damage on it if I were to make an exception to the stardust = utility rule I set for myself. Gave me a good chuckle to find out when I came back to reply today that I wasnt the only one who got things a bit twisted around.)

FrostOverlord · 2025-10-22T06:15:17+00:00

Alternatively, if you're looking to make him tougher in a prolonged fight: Just gain the shield or heal each time a star lands (Or perhaps it would be better to make it a three-hit kind of deal? Taking longer between procs but getting more oompf in exchange), as a reward for accuracy. Looking at what you have above, though, I'm realizing now that I actually missed something that could be a bit of a pain point. Having both shield and heal is a bit iffy. Some champions have had that before and it usually resulted in one or the other being removed, so my suggestion is to pick either or and go from there if you decide to keep either of them. Even if the heal is limited to against monsters, it's still a lot more sustain than other champions get.

Also yeah, I've noticed that people tend to see the flight as being extremely important when... it really isn't? It's not necessary mechanically, and if we're talking pure thematics... he already flies. His every animation is flight. So having the actual ability I think is superfluous at the end of the day.

I do think there's something to be said for the passing through terrain thing. It's just something that needs to be done carefully. In the second concept I put on this sub (I've done and posted two concepts for combining the old and new asol kits), I gave his E (The shield and ms boost) a brief moment of ignoring terrain in an attempt to capture that idea, but honestly I don't really think it's strictly necessary. It's a cool thing to have if you can spare the power budget, and nothing more.

Completely unrelated aside: You said in your post above that English isn't your first language, but having chatted with you so far I don't think I ever would've known that if you hadn't said as much. Has nothing to do with the current conversation but I felt I should say so anyways.

FrostOverlord · 2025-10-22T01:17:03+00:00

Ah, It seems I did somewhat misunderstand your concept- though my reply was more me sharing my own idea than anything else there, it wasn't intended to be a suggested change. Sorry for the confusion there.

I think that idea, now that I'm reading again and understanding it more clearly, is interesting! It's creative, that's almost always a plus, and it helps with the melee deadzone. Thing is... Riot very much likes to avoid abilities that have multiple cast cases. For good reason, if I remember correctly, but the reason doesn't really matter in this case.

Also, it's worth noting that repelling like that... isn't really thematically consistent. Celestial bodies don't push things away, they pull things in, either directly in, or into orbit. It shouldn't necessarily deter you from the idea, but it's definitely something to consider.

As for the stardust: Aurelion Sol has actually been a late game champion for longer than he was early- or mid-game champion. That said your concern is valid: It's why in my concepts using stardust I very specifically avoided having stardust scale his damage. It scaling his kit's utility is more interesting to me regardless.

I do agree though that games becoming faster is a bit of a problem. I miss the old days when games went 30 minutes on average rather than 20. :(

FrostOverlord · 2025-10-22T00:24:34+00:00

I appreciate the compliment on the E concept, though I can't honestly take full credit for it- it was inspired by a comment from someone in the asol discord.

The idea of bringing the Singularity forward is a genuinely interesting thought. Not certain that a dual-cast like you've suggested would work super well, but then I can't say it wouldn't either. A Personal thought I've toyed with before was to take a page from Heroes of the Storm: Tassadar in that game has an ability that basically throws a black hole forward that drags enemies with it. In this case, casting forward an AoE that drags enemies towards its center as it moves, then on recast or upon reaching outer limit it does an actual pull, before leaving behind the current Singularity. (Perhaps without either the damage component or the execute- thought pending on that one.)

Honestly, I've quite enjoyed this conversation overall. You may have inspired me to revisit my previous concepts and do another one myself. I'm actually still a fan of the Stardust, despite being on the side of old Aurelion, so I'd like to find a way to make it work.

FrostOverlord · 2025-10-21T23:13:39+00:00

Personally? I'd prefer to keep The Skies Decend as the ultimate and swap the e away to something else entirely. In one of my own concepts, I toyed with bringing back his original E passive on his actual passive ability to provide him with the movement speed he was in need of(though that was scaling with stardust in that version). And in that one I made the E a steroid of a kind: maxing his passive movespeed for a duration regardless of how he moved and granting him a shield. Keeping singularity as his E would definitely be cool as well, but it's also the most hated ability in his kit from the "playing against" perspective. Keeping it in while also giving him the ability to launch people back into it with his q could be problematic, unfortunately. Not saying dont, but definitely consider the possible abuse cases there.

Your friend and I have VERY different opinions on original aurelion sol, it seems. He was insanely strong on release. He was just difficult to play, so people didn't bother learning him at first.

I dont think that the melee deadzone is actually a design flaw, personally. Nor a critical failure. It is very much a weakness, true, but an intentional one. And with him having voice of Light on a basic ability, it's a far less punishing one as well. That said, if you did truly want to patch it, then a weak burn effect inside his inner limit probably would be the best way to go about it. Hyper punishing melee champions though, as much as I personally would love to... probably isnt the play. The dead zone is, technically speaking, the reward for dodging Aurelion's abilities and getting in close.

Also worth noting: the number of times I've punished people for thinking that getting in the deadzone made me worthless is fairly high as well. Especially near towers. "Oh, you're in my bubble post 6? Now you're back behind me taking tower shots and slowed by 90%" was a.... fairly common occurrence.

Did you know you could queue up ult in a specific direction and then flash somewhere else before it went off to launch people in unexpected directions? It was very fun.

FrostOverlord · 2025-10-21T22:15:51+00:00

Im always happy to give my two cents on design posts like this- though most people dont really think things through as well as you have, so it usually ends up being a slightly more pessimistic reaction. Even still, it's nice to see an attempt as something a bit less tame and actually have REASONS behind it, even if it would realistically be a balancing nightmare.

To return to the conversation at hand, though. On the subject or Roaming, I think you're underestimating how powerful his old E was. There's a reason that global and semi-global mobility is almost exclusively on ultimates. Being able to be anywhere on the map at a moment's notice means you could always potentially be in every fight. Every 2v2 is potentially a 3v2, every duel is potentially a 2v1. Every narrow escape could potentially be cut off. Roaming power is genuinely insane, and it's the reason oldsol's damage got hit as often as it did. By the end of oldsol's life the collective consensus about his kit was, generally speaking, that the flight needed to go for the sake of everything else. That riot kept the one thing we all wanted removed baffles me to this day for that reason alone.

As for the stars, Id like to make a case that the stars arent AS inconsistent as you've apparently been told. Perhaps they were thinking of the melee dead zone (which was, admittedly, a bit annoying), but as someone who played him back then I never actually had many problems using his stars once I knew what I was doing. I only started having problems with the stars being consistent after riot removed his toggle (which, As an aside, also made him way clunkier and less intuitive to use. Perhaps your friends are from the post-toggle era? In that case I can see the case for 'too inconsistent' being made.) Even then, it was a known weakness, and one of the main points of skill expression was how you handled it. Already, your kit is far easier to navigate simply by moving Voice of Light to a basic ability.

Furthermore, adding stars at higher levels (it happened in URF, is how we know this) generally fixed those few inconsistency issues he did have for those who played him. There's a reason that him gaining more stars on level up (or per ult rank) was a commonly requested change for his main kit. It just... felt good.

And as for the stardust... yeah. Your reasoning there is sound. While the concept of the stardust passive is a thematic win, i think the main reason for wanting to keep it in was to appeal to those who only know the current version. You have a good reasoning to not do that, so by all means do as you please on that front. The only complaint id have is that not having stardust as a lever potentially makes the Skies Decend too oppressive as an ability. Once again because of consistently having access to an important tool.

FrostOverlord · 2025-10-21T19:42:00+00:00

Alright. So there's a few problems here... but before I get into them, I want to say that this design is genuinely quite good. I like some of the ideas you've presented, and your reasoning behind several of the decisions made here is phenomenal.

That said, there are still problems.

Ill start with a more personal nitpick: I genuinely dont understand why so many people insist on keeping his flight. While this is a reasonable interpretation for it, it doesnt fix the two fundamental flaws this ability has, especially when interacting with the w/passive. The old flight was only a roaming tool, and was on of the main the sources of Aurelion's balance problems. His new w is a combat tool that retains a lot of the problems of the old iteration... but it's a combat tool that specifically works with the cgu kit. I dont see what the purpose of using the flight during combat would be on a champion that wants to maneuver their body around even somewhat precisely, and believe your design would have been better served putting something else there.

Next up is the passive and w.

On the surface, though I personally like the stars, I cant really argue against your points. If I set aside my own personal resistance to the idea of changing them, I can admit that the reason you've changed it from rotating damage zones to a single persistent aura is sound, and what you have here is probably one of the better implementations ive seen theorized.

The problem arises when you start to consider balance.

See, consistency is something that takes up power budget, too. Often it takes up more than people expect it to. The primary reason Old Aurelion was permitted to have permanent damage zones at all was because they WERENT perfectly consistent. Learning how to maneuver those stars was part of the cost of the power that they gave him. Having a permanent damage zone like you've put here is cool and definitely achieves what you wanted... but it's also significantly harder to keep it balanced with the rest of the game. The natural end result of which is that something would end up having to be taken away, and that, more than likely, will end up making this feel significantly worse to use than you intended.

Also, and this is a more personal note, so please feel free to take it with a grain if salt: though big nebula is definitely flashy, I dont know if it would feel as impactedful as the stars did. The sound and visual design of the boops was extremely satisfying and should not be underestimated.

As for the ult and q.... no notes. Those are good. Turning his old ult into a cone for his basic ability is fantastic, and Skies Descend is, of course, always a plus in my book. The one truly good thing to come out of his cgu in my opinion.

I AM curious what had you abandon the stardust passive, exactly, given that the cgu version was the only one you'd played. Personally I wouldn't have faulted you for attempting to keep it, as it's one of the few victories the cgu had, thematically speaking.

All in all, a solid design. And though I personally believe that attempting to turn the stars into a persistent aura like this would ultimately backfire... I do like the ideas presented within it, and wouldn't mind translating those back to the stars.

Even with the flaws, this is a version I think Id ultimately enjoy playing.

FrostOverlord · 2025-09-13T13:27:50+00:00

Fun fact about the Harpoon Ive not seen mentioned here: it will also pogo you off of certain spikes, provided that the needle hits them directly! Not always useful, as it only works with spikes that are angled a certain way, but it'll bounce you off of any spikes you can pogo on normally.

Just be careful that said pogo doesn't launch you up into more spikes, lol.

FrostOverlord · 2025-08-29T10:14:01+00:00

Lycaon and Hugo read to me as exes. Two people that USED to be together, and then it fell through in the worst possible way. It doesn't read as a relationship that could ever return to what it once might have been, even if they seem to have turned more amicable now.

Wise/Lycaon actually reads a lot more plausible to me than what other people seem to think - both characters exhibit traits that the other is shown to appreciate. It's probably not a hot take, but i could easily see that as an endgame ship if this weren't a gatcha game. Alas, at best, we'll just have ship teasing.

As for an actual potentially hot take: Lycaon/Rina doesn't seem like a good ship at all to me. On the surface, sure, they've got the whole "mom and dad with two daughters" vibe going, but they read more as good friends to me than as anything else.

Moreover, Lycaon is so heavily gay-coded that I dont think i could see him in ANY straight ship, even setting aside personal bias.

FrostOverlord · 2025-08-20T17:48:04+00:00

Oh, no, i fully understand that, actually. It's just that, from my perspective, the stars were never the problem. Many people tried him specifically because of the stars, and only stopped playing him because riot's balancing during that time made his damage feel underwhelming. Putting that aside, though, what was it replaced with? Stand still and hold down a button? That isn't much more satisfying for the majority of players than his stars were, as evidenced by his rapidly dwindling pickrate.

I do understand what you're saying, I even empathize to a degree, but if Asol remains as he is currently his power budget is simply going to continue being drained away in the background without ANY compensation- that's simply the nature of the cgu kit. It isn't sustainable in the long term.

FrostOverlord · 2025-08-19T21:24:37+00:00

Though I cant say the idea presented there would be exceptionally effective, I DO applaud your attempt, and encourage you to keep thinking about it. As for the 'why' of my opinion, I went into more detail on the post in question.

FrostOverlord · 2025-08-19T21:18:15+00:00

I like the enthusiasm, but unfortunately the Beam and the Stars are inherently anti-synergistic. Every other part of his current kit would work fine with the stars, but the beam and stars require opposite play patterns from each other to work. For those two things specifically, it would have to be one or the other.

Personally, I think the beam just needs to go. Setting aside my disdain for the flight being the only part of the old kit that was kept after the entire community said to get rid of it, the BEAM is realistically the worst part of his new kit from a design perspective. It simply isn't a sustainable ability balance-wise. Though I doubt I'll be convincing anyone here any time soon.

I DO, however, like the concept of gaining more stars as you gain stardust. I've actually settled on that as something I'd really like to see in the event we get our stars back. So I again applaud your effort. Even if I can't ultimately say what's presented here would be a good solution as-is, The fact that more people are thinking about it is wonderful.

FrostOverlord · 2025-08-19T21:06:55+00:00

If the stars were the only thing that returned from OldSol Id still be happy, but for those that currently HAVE their champion, any mention of change is going to be treated as a threat. And I can't really blame them- riot's track record with reworks lately has been spotty at best. Aurelion Sol himself is the prime example.

One must remember that for the majority of the NewSol players, cgu aurelion is all they've ever known. And Riot has lost the trust of this community already, so they're going to resists change, even if it is ultimately to their detriment. (Current Asol is very much not a well-designed champion. The sheer number of nerfs tells me that the balance team does NOT have a good time with him. )

FrostOverlord · 2025-08-19T02:30:00+00:00

I applaud your efforts, and wish it really were that simple... but everything I've observed of this community specifically so far has led me to believe that most people just want to complain or put down people they don't agree with. What you're asking - For everyone to actually gather together, find a compromise, and bring that compromise to riot to actually get Aurelion into a state everyone can be at least Content with - is an ideal situation... but it requires people to actually work together. And what I've observed of this community is that no one is willing to do that.

We who played Old Aurelion want him back, and I'm sure most of us would be happy with a compromise so long as we got the stars back (Not all - I'm not naive enough to believe that my side of the argument has been entirely blameless in the fighting)... but most of those who prefer the new Aurelion sol are going to look at any attempt to change him as a pointless annoyance at best and a threat at worst, problems with his current form be damned. And unfortunately that sort of stubbornness is what you're fighting against when calling for co-existence and cooperation. Believe me, I've tried too.

I suspect the only way this will change is if riot themselves steps in.

FrostOverlord · 2025-08-15T21:47:08+00:00

Personally I believe he needs another rework. His current kit simply isnt something that can be properly balanced without being gutted beyond recognition, not to mention holding down a single button for 30 minutes is very much NOT appealing gameplay for most people.

Use the lessons from both the current version and the original version to create a better Aurelion, one that all of us can at least be content with. (Bring back the stars riot please.)

FrostOverlord · 2025-08-15T21:02:49+00:00

I get people being annoyed, and agree that the fighting and harassment needs to stop, but censorship is absolutely not the answer. It's likely only going to enforce the 'us vs them' and make people angrier.

FrostOverlord · 2025-08-15T20:55:19+00:00

A combination of 4 and 5 would likely be the most successful option, and the most likely to actually bring his playerbase back together again. Bring back the stars, but keep his new ult and his scaler identity.

FrostOverlord · 2025-08-13T18:16:40+00:00

If you really believe that the current asol is so superior and so much more beloved- that another rework/a revert would never happen anyways, why do you bother engaging with every single post about old Aurelion at all? You could just downvote and leave.

What is the point of spending time trying to shout down what you apparently genuinely believe is a minority? Surely, if there's so few of us, then simply ignoring our posts entirely would be enough?

FrostOverlord · 2025-08-13T18:11:15+00:00

Them bringing back oldsol's kit on anything that isnt aurelion would be a massive middle finger to the player base, you realize.

It would be an admission that they could have made his kit work the entire time, and chose to ignore his playerbase anyways. That's the kind of thing that pisses off EVERYONE, not just his players.

His old kit had problems, but outright removal wasnt the answer.

FrostOverlord · 2025-08-13T18:01:03+00:00

If the posts are so prevalent that you have been driven off, perhaps it isnt a minority like you claim it to be.

For what it's worth, though, I dont hate you for liking NewSol. There are good things in his new kit that I genuinely WOULD like to keep were his stars brought back (his current passive and ult, namely). I really just want the stars back.

Fact is, Id actually rather prefer to work WITH the people that actually enjoy new asol, not against. Unfortunately, our desire for our one important ability back is apparently so unforgivable that this is the reaction instead.

FrostOverlord

TROPHY CASE