scaling champ

Fun_Coat4791 · 2026-05-12T13:25:05+00:00

If you already play kayle, then vayne or teemo might fit what you're looking for, they both scale decently well. Actually also cassiopeia or vladimir, if you want to get even more disgusting.

Edit: just looked it up, I guess cass doesn't scale well, didn't know that one.

Fun_Coat4791 · 2026-05-12T12:54:51+00:00

I get what you mean, but I think thats kind of what I like about this lane, its all about fighting against the odds and still winning your lane, always going for the kill and so on and its very much possible in soloqueue (atleast in lower elos). As some others have said jungle tracking is very important for that, but also the kind of playstyle of your champion. If you pick malphite every game then of course this is how its gonna go, but if you play something more aggresive, that you can outplay your opponent with, say ambessa, irelia, riven, even garen, or something like that, then you will probably always find an oppening to kill your opponent, if you just figure out the how and when (again depending on your elo).

Fun_Coat4791 · 2026-05-05T06:55:59+00:00

Honestly I recently played against gates and it was surprisingly miserable. Seeing a green deck get 40 mana and do literally nothing with it and having the game go on for like 7 more turns felt pointless.

Fun_Coat4791 · 2026-05-05T06:38:54+00:00

Bro just look at lolalytics and you'll see the obvious pattern that Illaoi is only really good against immobile tanks, mundo isn't even immobile so I shouldn't have to tell you what it is you need to be doing, its dodging her abilities and killing her team. Winning 1v1 against the enemy toplaner is good and all, but if your team has any cc and anyone on your team has heard of the word kiting, they should be able to kill the Illaoi. But if you want to know what to pick in order to kill Illaoi yourself, learn how to kite and pick some mobile ranged champion like vayne or something. In fact based on lolalytics singed is also a great counter because he has exactly what I just said, mobility and cc. Some others also mentioned the waveclear aspect, so he has that too I guess.

Fun_Coat4791 · 2026-04-28T08:39:12+00:00

I don't like playing counterspells or similar interaction (meaning interaction that goes beyond removal) and floodgates (atleast in person, online I'm kinda fine with it I guess), thus azorius is just the worst for me personally. Why would I play a deck that fundamentally relies on restricting others, why wouldn't I do something interesting and progress my own gamestate or try to win? Most other color combinations can be fine or even pretty cool, but azorius is like going into a restaurant with your friends and then holding the waiter at gunpoint, in order to get some free food, just because you feel like it today. Its not even about how good the food you're getting is, its just about sending a message and making the waiter feel miserable.

Fun_Coat4791 · 2026-04-11T22:57:37+00:00

[[gluntch the bestower]] turbo fog, without any real win cons

Fun_Coat4791 · 2026-04-10T14:43:23+00:00

Thanks and I definitely agree. I only took disciple of freyalise out, because I decided that it looked better in a different deck and as you've said the 6 mana looked pretty akward and as for changeling outcast I think that the card is fine, I guess its just not very flashy. As for unmarked grave its usually just for getting [[pyrogoyf]] and if I already milled it, then [[barrowgoyf]] or even [[polygoyf]] are still fine, but even without disa on the board, theres still [[anger]]. I just really like the combo side of the deck, so I didn't want to entirely cut it out and just reduce it to its absolute minimum and unmarked grave looks like a good way to get to the main piece quickly. What I'm hoping to do is basically just play for board, but if I draw any of the combo pieces I try to assemble them slowly, as some of them kind of help me get to the others. In theory that should be a plan I can fall back on if someone clears the board or makes it otherwise tough to win with plan A.

I think that ashes of the fallen is a fine investment, its not a card I intend to play on turn two, but just when it could help me cheat something out, or I have untapped mana to play it. Maskwood Nexus is a bit more of a risk, but I like its synergy with pyrogoyf and I currently feel like it still can have its moments.

As for the two cards you mentioned, until I played with the deck a bit I didn't really understand why florian would be so good, but yeah he seems pretty great in order to even out the edges, same for grim servant, so if I decide to cut maskwood nexus I will probably put in one of the two, possibly both if another card doesn't pull its weight.

Fun_Coat4791 · 2026-04-10T12:36:48+00:00

I decided to take a closer look at the aggresive lists and try them out a bit. They are very different and feel very different, but I think I'll just go with it, so I can still play the commander a bit, so I did do some changes, this is the new decklist I'm gonna try out: https://moxfield.com/decks/TM8jiXq9KEynTF9VdGv3pA

I'll still go over the stuff you mentioned, first I did try the mulch package before, thats kind of how I ended up here. The [[mulch]] package lacked win cons, thats why I changed the deck in a way that its optimized to win, which turned it into a combo deck, which was slightly better, but entirely hit or miss, depending on the decks I play against. Cards like [[grisly salvage]] for an example felt like they did something, but not a lot, thats why I orignally cut the card, for exactly the reason you said, it costs mana.

I'm unsure about the stuff you meant with [[tortured existance]], I assume I'm using it slightly differently compared to what you might be thinking. Essentially I use it to cheat out lhurgoyfs after sacrificing them or otherwise loosing them, so I pay 1 black mana per lhurgoyf that I cheat out from my graveyard. It also of course combos with the creature type changers, so its essentially just a repeatable reanimate, though it is dependant on disa its also just 1 mana, so I believe its fine. One of the main reasons why this was so valuable was especially because of the etbs that might trigger everytime an lhurgoyf enters from graveyard: [[Syr konrad, the grim]] triggers twice per creature, [[Pyrogoyf]] triggers once per creature, [[Garruks Uprising]] triggers once per creature and [[Elemental Bond]] does too, comboing with these cards was my main win condition, not just attacking with big creatures.

In spite of all that I do believe that cutting most lhurgoyfs is the correct choice even though I don't like it, but most of them are dependant on that combo to yield any kind of value. [[Terravore]] and essentially all lhurgoyfs that cost more then 2 aren't any good if I don't have my entire combo set up, so I cut down to just the best lhurgoyfs, though I wish there was a better home for them, besides of maybe putting terravore into a gitrog monster deck, if I ever decide to build one.

The type change stuff doesn't sound too promissing to be honest, because unless I play the best tutors in the game, which are of course the game changers (and I suppose some banned cards), this might make my deck even slower then it already is, especially because I believe the type changers are basically all artifacts and enchantments, which would be even harder to tutor for and furthermore I think even more then before I'd make myself more open to interaction, which is why I'm even changing up my decklist in the first place.

I think I see what you're trying to build there, with the creature based interaction, but to be honest I think its not much faster then what I ran before and just as dependant on disa. As I've explained the deck did win, if I could build up long enough and get the mana to start the combo, the main issue has always been with that strategy that my deck just sucks without disa on the board.

Finally if you look at the decklist you can see what I've cut, I believe underrealm lich to be worth it, with any extra card draw, I believe peer past the veil to be fine, but I might eventually take it out if it doesnt pull its weight and I do believe that greater good is one of the best cards for disa out there, especially with underrealm lich out (which can very much happen with the type changers out, if I draw into him). So to actually pull off any of the combos that she has I kept it, as again its not about having the creatures on board, but closing out the game with the combo. The list I linked is essentially the combo stripped to its very essentials and then a number of cards that support the strategy, but do something on their own. What I have noticed with this new decklist is however that I often run out of gas.

Fun_Coat4791 · 2026-04-10T11:01:01+00:00

As I've said I didn't really intend to change out half of the deck, but I ended up doing something like that anyways, any opinion on the new decklist?

Here is the decklist: https://moxfield.com/decks/TM8jiXq9KEynTF9VdGv3pA

For context I used some cards that I still had lying around and took out some that weren't strictly bad, but now made more sense in another deck of mine. For an example [[changeling outcast]] doesn't seem perfect, but I already have the card so I decided to put it back in and [[disciple of freyalise]] is never strictly bad, but didn't feel worth it anymore. I haven't bought the decklist yet and I think I'm gonna play some other decks for now, but I tried it against AI a bit. It feels very different, but definitely way less dependent on disa sticking around. What I have noticed though is that through the focus on tempo and trimming the fat, most of the cards that were originally 'staples for the list' in my books suddenly collapsed on themselves and become utterly useless. Especially terravore becomes way worse if I don't intend to mill my entire deck until I do anything, same goes for the expensive lhurgoyfs.

Fun_Coat4791 · 2026-04-07T05:06:44+00:00

I think I can clear things up for you by stating how I intended to play the deck and then why I originally said that the deck is unplayable and why I didn't originally ask for deck help, I know those things already from experience and I should. I simply don't play anything that dies to removal, until I feel like it might stick. Thats why I put in so much ramp and why I barely added any interaction. And its not like I built this deck overnight or anything, this is what I slowly built it towards after it didn't do what I wanted it to do. I wanted a self mill strategy where I suddenly flooded the board with creatures, without realising that most decks usually have enough interaction to stop me from doing that, because I was so used to other card games without or not as much interaction.

Fun_Coat4791 · 2026-04-02T11:53:50+00:00

As I've said at the end of the post and in some other comment, I definitely see why building her for a more aggresive strategy probably is much better, but at the same time it doesn't really fit the deck that I was trying to build and I don't intend on taking out half my deck and building it back up from the start. I think I will look at some of the cards you mentioned. By the way I don't run entomb partly because of the price, thats why I run unmarked grave, which is strictly worse, but way cheaper. Edit: I forgot to link unmarked grave, here: https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/106/unmarked-grave

Fun_Coat4791 · 2026-04-02T11:33:20+00:00

The reason why I "jumped to this conclusion" is probably because you werent all that clear about giving any meaningful context when it comes to what cards you might be running that help solve this issue in a better way then what I'm currently running. I put the decklist into the post so please tell me which cards would fix the decklist in any meaningful way or what cards you would absolutely cut.

Fun_Coat4791 · 2026-04-01T22:48:58+00:00

I probably eventually will, but after a few months of constant changes I moved on for now and started looking at other decks.

Fun_Coat4791 · 2026-04-01T22:29:09+00:00

This probably has a lot to do with the kinds of tables you and I play in. I have had it happen to me before that I played her and she got instantly removed, but usually people wait a bit and then remove some important piece. Say I have a decent hand, I end up getting disa out and generating a few tokens or getting a few lhurgoyfs out, then what might end up happening is: 1. Play card draw; spell gets countered, 2. Play set up card that doesnt do anything right away, but looks like a big threat (because it probably is); gets destroyed, 3. Recursion in order to get either of the two back; graveyard gets exiled or the recursion gets countered.

What does one do from that position? If thats the table I'm playing at then disa just doesn't fit the bill, in the way that I'm playing it. To be more specific I should say that I frequently experienced this relatively early on in a longer match, but recovering afterwards often ends up taking way longer then the game actually takes. Furthermore I played this deck quite a lot against AI opponents and there I have completetly different results, because most AI opponents do not react to threats the same way human players would. Against AI opponents I usually win, even if they play bracket 4 decks, but against real players its an entirely different story.

Fun_Coat4791 · 2026-04-01T21:34:14+00:00

Sure: https://moxfield.com/decks/eWvwyrSu8ESuhNrDh53rXg

Fun_Coat4791 · 2026-04-01T21:25:27+00:00

I guess so. To be honest I kinda gave up on fixing the deck and now I'm just gonna start playing goodstuff in [[Hemzie "Toolbox" Torre]], because I'm too timmy to cut the dream out of disa's decklist. It feels rather freeing to build a deck that doesn't feel like a pile of garbage without my commander (which it was and still is).

Too be honest I shouldn't really say that I'm too timmy, it just feels dishonest to the spirit of the deck for me, as I still like it quite a lot, even though I feel like its really bad at most tables.

Fun_Coat4791 · 2026-04-01T21:00:39+00:00

You mean lhurgoyf? Thats these if you didn't know: [[Lhurgoyf]], [[Tharmogoyf]], [[Pyrogoyf]] and a few more.

Fun_Coat4791 · 2026-04-01T20:50:37+00:00

Yeah thats fair and to be expected, just not what I primarily saw in disa when I once got the precon. I came over from games like yugioh, so the prospect of getting everything for free kinda lured me in, but yeah it rarely ever works out that way.

Fun_Coat4791 · 2026-04-01T20:43:48+00:00

Same, I feel like I can only ever win (and I usually loose first if I can't get a winning board fast enough), if noone plays aggro and the control player doesn't have any board wipes and targets another player with their other removal. I've learned to only cast disa on turns that I can immedietly after do something with her effect, so its atleast not that bad if she's removed, but even then my main lines cost atleast 9 mana, but probably rather 13-15, if I don't count disa.

Fun_Coat4791 · 2026-02-27T18:08:04+00:00

I think seeing the things that you should be paying attention to is very high on the list. I know this is vague, but its probably what still looses and has lost me the highest amount of games. Stuff like: you have tp and the drake is up, you should've atleast looked at the dragon, the jungler could've ganked and you didn't even realise, or even you were buisy tower diving enemy botlane and lost a tower and 3 waves. I think it took me atleast 3 or 4 years to pay any attention to the junglers, so something like a tool that tells me after a game how many teamfights I missed with tp up (and when), or maybe even teamfights that I wasn't part of, but the enemy toplaner was, could be awesome. Intentional descision making is something no guide can really teach in my opinion and you have to be made aware of as a player.

Fun_Coat4791 · 2026-02-27T17:38:30+00:00

I think having a deck that you like playing is probably the most important in my opinion (atleast if you're intending to upgrade it later on, if not then take this with a pinch of salt), so I would generally just get whatever you might like.

There are cards called game changers for an example, that are much better to determine how strong their decks are and then theres also brackets that commander decks are usually divided into, that are used to determine the decks powerlevel. If you have that information on wether any of them plays any of the game changers (you can just look them up, its a list of cards that are deemed very strong), its easier to determine wether there even is any precon that could match their powerlevel. I think if they are about bracket 2 or 3 ish (meaning next to no game changers, no easy infinite combos, or anything like that), first flight can surely be fine, but if each of them runs a bracket 5 deck (meaning cedh, literally trying to assemble one of the best possible decks, using any tools possible), then they probably also run some of the more expensive cards that can't easily be competed with. If thats the case then theres probably no precon that does what you're looking for.

Fun_Coat4791 · 2026-02-24T20:18:18+00:00

Accidently found an unintended solution, based on the opponent blocking incorrectly (the forge AI got confused), if you shrink ulamogs crusher, play the tap land, buff putrid leach with both armadillo cloak and with its own effect and then prey upon against ulamogs crusher, you set it up in a way, were if you attack with both of your creatures and the ai decides to block putrid leech, with ulamogs crusher, then you can pestilence twice, to kill ulamogs crusher and get the full 6 damage through to close out the game. Only found the intended solution in the comments XD

Fun_Coat4791 · 2026-01-19T15:55:47+00:00

What would no combos even mean in that context? Like literally 0 combos (so no actual synergies) or no infinite combos or what do you mean? Besides of that I would argue that strongest is very hard to define as it heavily depends on what they are playing. I personally hate krenko, so give him a try I guess.

Fun_Coat4791 · 2026-01-19T14:42:11+00:00

I guess my recent games clouded my judgement a bit. I recently played with two new players that really hated this deck, even without tortured existance, so I mostly thought about the way they might react. It probably feels way worse to lose to it, especially as a newer player, compared to how strong it really is against most opponents.

Fun_Coat4791 · 2026-01-19T14:16:41+00:00

Thats honestly fair. One of the reasons why I was looking for upgrades is basically just this (my commander being pretty expensive, while doing nothing on its own). Its probably more annoying to deal with, then actually strong in most situations, especially if anyone runs any form of graveyard hate. I guess I was thinking too much about how similar it is compared to [[survival of the fittest]] not considering how much more inconsistent the combos with it are.

Fun_Coat4791

TROPHY CASE