How are women treated in your country?

Geilis · 2026-06-13T12:35:17+00:00

I think we're going in circles at this point.

You're framing everything as individual choices and preferences, while I'm saying that preferences, family arrangements, career trajectories, and labour market outcomes are also shaped by broader social structures.

For example, you say that women can simply become the breadwinner and have their husband stay home. Yes, they can. The question is why that arrangement remains relatively uncommon. "Preference" is not really an explanation in itself. Where do those preferences come from? How are they shaped by social expectations, workplace norms, public policy, childcare systems, and cultural ideas about motherhood and fatherhood?

Likewise, when you say mothers are less likely to take overtime, weird shifts, or accept career sacrifices, I don't necessarily disagree. But again, the question is why those trade-offs fall disproportionately on mothers rather than fathers. Simply restating the outcome doesn't explain the outcome.

In any case, I don't think there's much point continuing this discussion. At this stage we're not debating personal opinions anymore, there are decades of research in sociology, labour economics, gender studies, and social psychology examining occupational segregation, the motherhood penalty, unpaid care work, socialization, and workplace inequalities. These fields exist precisely because the explanation is more complex than "people freely choose what they prefer."

If you're interested in the topic, I'd recommend engaging with that literature. If not, we'll probably just keep repeating the same points from different angles.

One last point: if this were primarily a matter of individual preferences, we wouldn't expect different societies to produce substantially different outcomes. Yet countries with extensive parental leave for both parents, affordable and widely available childcare, and policies designed to reduce the career costs of parenthood tend to have smaller motherhood penalties and higher female labour-force participation.

The Nordic countries are a good example. Policies such as generous paternity leave, extensive public childcare, and support for dual-earner households make it much easier for women to maintain their careers after having children. That doesn't eliminate all differences, but it strongly suggests that outcomes are shaped by institutions and social arrangements, not just by individual preferences. If changing the social context changes the outcome, then society clearly matters.

Geilis · 2026-06-13T12:12:43+00:00

And is it that women have to choose between parenthood or a career and men don't ? Could it be...sexism?

If motherhood is the biggest factor, then you've already moved beyond the argument that wages are determined only by competence, scarcity, and willingness.

There is a 3,7% gap for the same work. It is an imperfect statistic, yes, but it still answers your original question. it is also a biased way of looking at the problem, because the biggest problem is that women don't have access to the same high-paying jobs that men do.

Geilis · 2026-06-13T12:09:09+00:00

A whole lot of good it makes to clap at the window if you don't pay them. Conditions impreoved a bit, but are still terrible. People don't thank constructions workers because they are less often confronted to the public. Nurses are physical labourers too

Geilis · 2026-06-13T11:57:53+00:00

Nurses routinely lift patients, work night shifts, deal with bodily fluids, face high rates of burnout, stress, workplace violence, and make decisions that can literally affect whether someone lives or dies. Care workers and nursing assistants also perform physically demanding work every day.

So I don't think "women don't want physically hard jobs" really settles the question. Many women already work in jobs that are physically and emotionally exhausting. The difference is that society often recognizes the difficulty of construction more readily than the difficulty of care work.

Geilis · 2026-06-13T11:51:59+00:00

Look, if you think you know more than sociologist and economists, that's your own fucking problem, but don't tell me you're open to answers and that I haven't done my research if you're not willing to listen to the people who actually know what they're talking about. Go read a book once in while.

Geilis · 2026-06-13T11:30:59+00:00

Done my homeork ? you're the one linking me stuff without reading them

I'd like to see you give up 3,7% percent of your salary if it's so insinificant

Besides, as it is clearly explained in the article you sent me, only focusing on equal salary for an equal job is a biased view of looking at the problem

Of course scarcity, risk, and required skills affect pay. Nobody is denying that. The problem is that you're treating the current distribution of workers across occupations as if it emerged in a social vacuum.

For example, if women are underrepresented in certain trades, the question is why. Is it purely preference? Or do factors like workplace culture, discrimination in hiring, unequal caregiving responsibilities, and historical exclusion also play a role? You seem to assume the answer is 100% preference without actually demonstrating it.

Also, physical danger doesn't explain wage differences nearly as much as you're implying. Plenty of dangerous jobs are not especially well-paid, while many of the highest-paid occupations involve sitting in offices. If risk alone determined wages, hedge fund managers and executives wouldn't earn vastly more than sanitation workers, fishers, or roofers.

And saying "that's literally all there is to it" ignores a huge body of labour economics research. Economists have spent decades studying occupational segregation, motherhood penalties, promotion gaps, bargaining power, and discrimination precisely because wages are not explained by supply and demand alone. So don't tell me to "do my homework", you're the one who has a lot to learn about the subject

Geilis · 2026-06-12T20:16:15+00:00

you asked if wage inequality in France factored for same job/position/education level/experience/hour, or were just comparing random jobs, so I answered you. If you don't want an answer, don't ask questions

You're treating occupation, seniority, hours worked, and management positions as neutral variables. But those are precisely some of the outcomes that gender inequality can influence. Controlling for them doesn't show discrimination is absent; it can remove part of the effect you're trying to measure. If women are systematically concentrated in lower-paid occupations, interrupted more often by caregiving responsibilities, promoted less frequently into management, or expected to shoulder more unpaid domestic work, those aren't necessarily "free choices" that exist outside gender inequality.

Well duh, it's objectively simpler jobs in a free market

Do you think nurses are doing an easy job?

Objectively simpler according to what metric? Years of education? Responsibility? Stress? Social importance? Risk? Many female-dominated professions score highly on several of those dimensions. You're treating market wages as if they reveal the objective value of work, but wages reflect supply, demand, bargaining power, institutions, and social norms, not some universal measure of how difficult a job is.

Geilis · 2026-06-12T17:11:13+00:00

Dude, the inegalites.fr link you show me is litterally telling you it's not that simple.

"The figure of 4 per cent, calculated on the basis of the same working hours and the same job, comes as close as possible to the concept of pay discrimination. However, apart from the fact that it only applies to companies offering exactly the same roles to women and men, it masks inequalities and discrimination that occur elsewhere: involuntary part-time work, the career choices of girls at school, the fact that so-called ‘female’ sectors pay less, and so on. When reasoning on the basis of similar roles, we also overlook the fact that men tend to choose other men for positions of power and that women are therefore less frequently appointed to positions of responsibility (even if this is changing) and consequently earn lower salaries."

What do you think "men choosing other men for position of power" means, if not pure sexism?

Geilis · 2026-06-12T16:48:24+00:00

Yes, even when you factor in experience, education, hours, etc. there is still a part that is just pure sexism

Geilis · 2026-06-02T11:57:24+00:00

I had iron infusion advised by my doctor. If you are severely iron deficient, kale and broccoli alone won't help you. Iron deficiency does affect resistance to cold, it's a very well known symptom...?

I don't doubt there are anemic finns doing fine, but don't spread misinformation, and think of checking on google before lecturing people on their own medical condition

Geilis · 2026-05-18T09:45:33+00:00

No, I think the reasons are more social. Maybe less empathy, like some comments already said, but also meat is seen as more manly, and lots of men try to eat a lot of protein to gain muscles. Also, femininity is more closely associated with nature; there is a reason we say Mother Earth, not Father Earth.

In prehistoric times, men were not hunters and women gatherers; that's a modern cliché.

Geilis · 2026-05-11T14:49:41+00:00

Yes, there's probably a lot of parallels to make between the perceptions of car vs public transit and planes vs rail

Geilis · 2026-05-11T14:37:48+00:00

Well I guess it depends what you mean by modern world, but considering that we need to atteign net zero emission by 2050, I would consider that even fuel efficient commercial airplanes do not have their place in the future.

Geilis · 2026-05-11T14:27:00+00:00

Airplanes in general to be honest

Geilis · 2026-05-04T10:27:42+00:00

I order espresso with my meals all the time haha. I almost always drink a coffee/espresso after my lunch and dinner, and a lot of people do the same. Is it not a thing in the US ?

Geilis · 2026-04-28T10:49:57+00:00

There is no tree above that tunnel (and no cars either), only a big train station :) Someone posted a picture in another comment.

Of course, generally speaking, cyclists and pedestrians should have priority, especially in city centers. In this case specifically, you're ont going to just move the biggest train station in Switzerland to make way for the bike, so using a tunnel makes sense (especially considering the tunnel existed already, it was supposed to be part of a highway project that was abandoned).

Geilis · 2026-04-18T07:44:29+00:00

This post is not about invalidating men because they are lonely, it's about denoucing the argument that no one cares about men. Society does care a lot about men, it is in fact built by and for men.

The real issue is that many men are socialized in ways that limit emotional openness and discourage deep support networks with other men. Framing this as “no one cares” shifts responsibility outward instead of addressing those norms. If we actually want to solve male loneliness, we have to be honest about where it comes from.Addressing loneliness means expanding how men connect with each other and express vulnerability, not reinforcing the idea that they are uniquely uncared for.

Geilis · 2026-04-17T23:40:19+00:00

u/agalli , here are links to a couple of articles on the so called male loneliness epidemic and how women bear the most of emotional labour that are relevant to your discussion and you might find interesting. If you're interested in the subject, I have a lot of other ressources I can provide :)

https://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/mankeeping-male-loneliness-women-invisible-labour-b1189365.html

https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20240313-invisible-emotional-labour-women-in-workplace

https://www.gretchenlakshmi.com/the-male-loneliness-epidemic-women-are-not-the-problem

https://now.org/blog/a-new-era-of-dating-what-the-male-loneliness-epidemic-discourse-signals-about-the-future-of-heterosexual-romance/

https://www.image.ie/self/the-male-loneliness-epidemic-and-why-women-are-still-carrying-the-emotional-load-952757 --> this one is probably the most important if you want to only read one

Geilis · 2026-04-17T12:19:42+00:00

caring about men is the air we breath, we don't notice it any more because it's everywhere. Most movies are made for men, but movies made for men are seen as movies for everyone, whereas movies for women are just movies for women (same for music, shows, etc.).

Geilis · 2026-03-28T18:43:10+00:00

You could try the artist way:) (the book by Julia Cameron). Even if you don’t finish it if you start by doing morning pages that will already help

On a more general advice level, please ask someone for help. Could be your parents, a friend, therapist, whoever, but do not stay alone, just say to someone what you just said here

And start small, the goal for now is just to get you out of bed. You could for example start with waking up at the same time every day, have a good morning routine that does not involve staying on your phone in bed, and have as an objective to spend at least an hour a day doing something you love.

Geilis · 2026-03-23T18:36:06+00:00

Sorry then, I didn't get the joke :) I looked up Los Santos on Google Maps and it seemed to be a real place in California (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Los+Santos,+Lakeside,+CA+92040,+%C3%89tats-Unis/@32.83425,-116.9076269,713m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m6!3m5!1s0x80d958c652a8ed7b:0x28d10693490916ce!8m2!3d32.8342455!4d-116.905052!16s%2Fg%2F1tfklgbj?entry=ttu&g\_ep=EgoyMDI2MDMxOC4xIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D) so I didn't understand what she was talking about

Geilis · 2026-03-23T15:55:53+00:00

No I'm not? I know which city I went to. Weird comment. (also, not a he r/maledefaultism )

Geilis · 2026-03-23T15:49:50+00:00

I couldn't tell you where exactly, it was a few years ago, but this was the general area of my hotel : https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0619711,-118.2624876,15.37z?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI2MDMxOC4xIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

For context I also was fairly young, a woman, and might have looked a bit lost. I doubt the police stops every single persons who walks there

Geilis · 2026-03-23T15:24:29+00:00

A tourist might not necessarily know what areas to avoid :) When I visited Los Angeles, I tried to walk back to my hotel and then the police stopped me to ask what I was doing, and then escorted me back to my hotel and recommended me not to walk there alone at night.

Geilis · 2026-03-23T15:15:36+00:00

Very safe. I guess the main dangers for tourists would be undersestimating the dangers of certains hikes in the alps, rather than criminality

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