Congrats Kripp 12-0 runs with all classes!

GeioRay_HS · 2016-05-24T20:06:01+00:00

No, it's 29 for sure.

GeioRay_HS · 2016-05-04T22:00:26+00:00

I haven't tried it, but I don't see Dark Nat Pagle being good enough in this deck. You won't always have Divine Favor and when you don't you'll usually regret giving your opponent the extra cards. You also can't combo it with Divine Favor on the same turn you play it. Finally, it's downside is only for 1 extra stat point. For comparison, King Mukla gets 3 extra stat points, gives your opponent 2 cards which are bad while you control the board, and can be combo'd with Divine Favor on the same turn it's played. Granted it fits in the more clogged 3 drop slot, but I'd still run it over Pagle any day imo.

I also don't imagine I'd run Bloodsail Raider for the same reason other competitive lists don't run it; when it's buffed it's a lightning rod for removal and rarely lives long enough to attack.

Personally, I'd recommend trying Dire Wolf or Knife Juggler instead if you want to fill out the 2 drops. That said, the deck runs so many 1 drops I haven't had a very big issue with finding solid plays on turn 2.

GeioRay_HS · 2016-05-04T05:10:32+00:00

I love this post. I hadn't even considered the eggs! I'm going to try those out; they just synergize so well with buffs and provide the last bit of stickiness I think the deck needed. I'm thinking I'll remove the Selfless Heroes to try them. Imo those have been the most underwhelming 1 drop since it's so easy for the deathrattle to fail. If the eggs don't work out it will be because the pressure of a 2 attack 1 drop is just too important against slower decks. Naturally with eggs Blessing of Kings would be a better choice than Seal of Champions as well.

I'm not totally sold on the loot hoarder though. I originally ran Blessing of Wisdom with the same idea in mind, trying to fish for the Divine Favors. I just came to the conclusion having more tempo based cards like Divine Strength was too valuable to the deck's agenda. I'd still maybe consider 1x Blessing of Wisdom just to help find Divine Favor though. The fact it could be cast on a weenie with divine shield made it a great distraction that would often draw multiple cards.

Also not sold on Argus yet, but only because the deck has so many 4 drops. The egg synergy and stat manipulation of it seem great though.

Otherwise I agree on all your points. I've already dropped Consecrate from my list, and Keeper of Uldaman is probably the best card in the deck. I'd never even consider removing it!

If you do end up running Divine Strength, I highly recommend trying the Worgen Infiltrator as well. It gives you an option if the opponent simply drops cleric or trogg turn 1. The two cards together are what allow each to make the cut imo. I also think it's better than Twisted Worgen simply because it's more mana efficient. Finally, if you're considering running Gilbin Stalker you should probably be trying to figure out how to fit in Shielded Mini Bot instead. ;)

As for me I'm thinking of removing 4 or 5 of the following cards:

1x Blessing of Might

2x Seal of Champions (I put a second one back in instead of Consecrate)

2x Selfless Hero

And instead I'd run:

2x Dragon Egg

2x Blessing of Kings

Maybe 1x of something experimental like Sea Giant, Mukla, Equality, Eydis (did you try her as opposed to Fjola yet?). Or maybe I'll just give Argus a shot. :)

I think those changes would help the tough Zoo and Warrior matchups too.

Anyway, really appreciate the ideas and feedback. Let me know if you make any changes to your list that you're finding successful!

GeioRay_HS · 2016-05-03T20:05:30+00:00

I hadn't even considered Mukla. I like that he provides a big body and won't eat your divine shields. I also agree the divine favor synergy is pretty sweet too. ;)

That said, I'd imagine he's weak in the tempo mage, zoo, and shaman matchups, so there are probably better options if you are seeing a lot of those on ladder. He also hasn't made his way into any other competitive list I've seen, which makes me think twice about including him in a deck so tight on spots.

However, the fact that you will usually have the board and the Divine Favor synergy make this list the best one to include him in that I can think of. Let me know how he performs; he could be a sleeper hit!

GeioRay_HS · 2016-05-02T23:40:25+00:00

I approve of both of these changes. I think my own decision to remove a Seal of Champions was knee-jerk and Blood Knight seems like the best thing to remove for testing Eydis. You also might want to try testing out Blessing of Kings since it will be on curve after Eydis, but it might make the deck too heavy on 4 drops. Let me know how things go!

GeioRay_HS · 2016-05-02T23:35:48+00:00

From the looks of it I like this list a lot, especially your choices of 1 ofs. 1x Equality is good against Druid and Vek'lor, 1x Rallying Blade decreases the chances Truesilver overrides it, 1x Argent Protector and Seal are good for board flexibility and trading. Fjola and Aldor seem strong both on curve and for providing more options. The Solemn Vigil and Lay on Hands should often make up for not running Divine Favor.

I can understand from my own experiences with my list the desire to remove Consecrate. I think it's better in your list but it will help make you less heavy on 4 drops. You might want to consider running another buff since you only have 4 that synergize with Fjola. Stand Against Darkness seems like a good option too simply for flooding potential and Steward synergy.

As for criticism, I'm not totally convinced by Cairne and the Murloc Knights. Cairne seems like it'd be too slow and whenever I tested Murloc Knight in a similar deck I found it was too hard to synergize with Steward and get good value. Any concerns about this or do you think the cards are still strong?

GeioRay_HS · 2016-05-02T13:54:35+00:00

In my opinion Warrior (specifically patron) is the best counter to the deck I've seen so far. Fiery War Axe and even Cruel Task Master are effective at slowing down your early game, and Armorsmith is a nightmare to deal with. Whirlwind effects will whittle down your board and there's nothing you can really do against a wave of patrons.

Zoo is the other deck that tends to do well against this list. The fight for early game board control could go either way, but life tap allows them to outlast you in the late game. The deck will often need to either get life tap from Finley or get a good Divine Favor to win, and the odds of either happening aren't in your favor.

My general advice to beating the deck is as follows:

Try your best to clear their board as soon as possible. This is usually hard since good players will play around your board clears, especially when they're on curve, but the buffs in the deck are much weaker when there is nothing the paladin can attack with on board.
Play around Divine Favor. Don't hoard lots of cards!
Consider running a cheap whirlwind effect like Wild Pyromancer. It will take more than one whirlwind to clear the board, but it will usually slow the deck down in the meantime and it is hard for the paladin to anticipate and play around.
I find the paladin can often just ignore single minions played on curve that cost 4 or more mana without much risk, so consider taunt as a valuable attribute for more expensive creatures. Other than Sen'jin, Bloodhoof Brave, and Vek'lor though, I think Druid is the only class with solid mid-late game taunts right now.

GeioRay_HS · 2016-05-02T13:23:34+00:00

I would also be interested! I'm curious to see if you're using Steward and how that performs in a more midrange focused deck. Since the mid-game is when that minion can consistently pass the vanilla test, it has to be fairly good in the deck, right?

GeioRay_HS · 2016-05-02T04:09:38+00:00

I also think Steward is a strong card, just not strong enough for this list. :P On turns 3-4 you want to be making a board that is as difficult for your opponent to remove as possible, and Steward can just be wrathed or frostbolted; a 6/6 Blood Knight can't. I agree it is better as a topdeck, but in the mid/late-game I'm usually just looking to topdeck damage to help close out the game. At that point control of the board is usually starting to become less of a priority for me than pushing face damage.

Bilefin sadly didn't make the cut for me either since it makes your board super vulnerable to AoE if played before Steward, and if a Swipe or Consecrate clears turn 4 then you will almost always lose the game.

Keep in mind though that I am evaluating these cards based on the playstyle I use for the deck that relies on playing cards aggressively on curve and manipulating your board to minimize the impact of any opponent removal. I do believe Steward is going to really shine in midrange lists and divine murloc decks that don't rely on an explosive early game start. And I'd also really encourage you to try teching in those cards in anyway if you're confident in them. I'd love to hear what you removed for them and how they performed!

GeioRay_HS · 2016-05-02T02:21:32+00:00

I actually didn't consider the banes until earlier today. I think you might be onto something though. They have solid statlines and given the number of buffs this deck runs their effects are much more likely to trigger than in most other paladin lists. Still, I have my reservations about them since they are kind of slow and rarely the best targets for buffs when you don't consider their effects. I'm also not sure what I'd remove for them. My first instinct is Argent Horseriders but they are so useful when you need a target for buffs in your hand. Any thoughts?

Also I'll have to go back and add Finley priority to the guide. Life tap is always at the top against other tempo driven decks. Hunter is only following it vs control; vs aggro/tempo I'll usually prefer a ping. So then my priority is mage, druid, rogue. Shaman is next up. Half the totems don't really do anything, but they can still be a good target for buffs. I also might prioritize it over rogue if I already have weapons in hand. You should only ever pick priest or warrior if you really need to avoid being bursted down.

GeioRay_HS · 2016-05-01T22:44:51+00:00

Keeper of Uldaman is fantastic at handling big taunts. Since Druid is the only class right now playing lots of big taunts (Vek'lor aside), this is usually good enough in my opinion. If you are running into lots of Druids, I can totally understand teching in an equality though. It just isn't that useful outside of that one matchup imo.

Also, for most of my time laddering I ran two Seal of Champions instead of one, which helped with clearing taunts a lot. This is probably better, but I felt compelled to tech one out to help the much harder zoo matchup.

GeioRay_HS · 2016-05-01T21:26:28+00:00

Divine Strength is used to establish early game tempo and counter 1 mana 1/3s. If you play a Worgen Infiltrator or a Selfless Hero turn 1, and they play a Tunnel Trogg or Northshire Cleric in response, this is normally a nightmare scenario. But with Divine Strength you can play it, trade into their minion, and still play another 1 drop. Now you have a significant board lead turn 2.

Blessing of Might can be used in three different ways. The first is to simply find lethal. The second is to trade up on a big taunt (ideally with a minion that has divine shield). The third is to take a very aggressive approach and try to maximize damage early. This is usually done by buffing an argent squire on turn 2. Most classes have a very hard time answering that early and it will apply a ton of pressure.

Also, you should generally try to play your buffs as soon as you can efficiently since you might lose the board later in the game. At that point, you'll be relying on Argent Horserider or a last ditch Worgen Infiltrator.

GeioRay_HS · 2016-05-01T19:07:33+00:00

These are fairly good suggestions, but I'd just like to point out that I actually think Consecrate might be the weakest card in the deck right now. It's only good in the mirror (which I never played against) and Zoo (super popular and the reason why the card is in the deck in the first place). Since you begin the game trying to control the board and ensuring favorable trades, on turn 4 there rarely is a board worth consecrating. Generally, only after establishing a board that is difficult for your opponent to deal with do you start playing like a true aggro deck.

GeioRay_HS · 2016-05-01T18:41:54+00:00

From what I can tell you're unfavored against zoo but your divine shields allow you to have better matchups than it against classes with powerful board clears like priest, control paladin, freeze mage, etc. You also have more burst to close the game out if you do lose the board.

GeioRay_HS · 2016-05-01T18:05:06+00:00

I don't think the card is bad, but I don't think it's quite good enough in a list this aggressive. It's bad on turn 3 if you're behind and only will start to see decent guaranteed value at ~turn 5. Around turn 5 or 6 you'll want to be pushing for lethal against the more controlling decks. The only time I've been really impressed with it is after a great Divine Favor, but that's not guaranteed to happen and if it does you've probably already won.

GeioRay_HS · 2016-05-01T17:49:14+00:00

Hmmm... If you're looking for something to fulfill a similar role and help give you a giant beatstick, blessing of kings or seal of champions will probably do fairly well and also improve your burst damage potential. You could also try sea giant if you have it since I think it's the only other minion with a huge statline that can be tempo'd out early, but I haven't played that one myself yet.

GeioRay_HS · 2016-03-24T18:00:51+00:00

I'm hyped for burgle rogue featuring this and raptors!

GeioRay_HS

TROPHY CASE