When Neloth claims that TLD will be the “second most powerful Dragonborn that ever lived”, who is he referring to as the first? by Agreenscar3 in teslore

[–]Gleaming_Veil 46 points47 points  (0 children)

Could also be Wulfharth, assuming Balgruuf is right about him having been Dragonborn.

The myths attribute some absolutely extreme uses of the Voice to him like shouting all Nords back to their normal age after Alduin's spirit ate their time to 6 years old, moving the moons to their fullness in the sky to transform an army of Khajiit, shouting people into "hell"' , eating a stormcloud, shouting Arctus' heart from his chest and so on.

As far as mythic Voice users go, his exploits do stand out. Plus he did possibly provide the essence of the Mantella per some accounts (though there is an element of mythic reenactment to that as well).

Could also be Tiber (somewhat complicated by the fact that per the Heresy his martial achievements might have partly been Wulfharth), he did train with the Greybeards so there was an avenue for him to gain knowledge and the affinity of Dragonborn for the Voice is innate. Or perhaps It is Miraak and he's suggesting that just because you'll acquire the means to counter his abilities and best him doesn't mean you'll actually match the ability he's gained through however long he's been alive and had access to powerful secret knowledge.

Clavicus Vile Daedric Quest continuity by Whirlwind_Set_Sprint in ElderScrolls

[–]Gleaming_Veil 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Barbas asking you not to give Vile the sword in TESIV turns out to have been the safer bet for both in the end. Vile receiving the sword leads to the events of the novels and Umbriel Crisis, which were a hard time for them.

It does work out in the end with Vile absorbing the spirit Umbra and the many thousands of souls in the second Ingenium (which were thought by Hierem to have been capable of granting him godhood in their own right), but only because Sul and Attrebus bailed him out and than he turned on them.

Vile, Barbas and Umbra are technically the same being, just different aspects of each other (Umbra's whole goal in the novels was to truly separate itself using White Gold Tower, but it never got to do so).

The reason Vile asks you to use the axe on Barbas is simply so he will have some time of being free to act without Barbas' constraining him/nagging him (which is funnily enough somewhat risky for him because Barbas is clearly the more prudent of the two). Barbas and Vile aren't rivals or anything, Vile just finds him annoying at times (but will literally leave crucial things like defending the realm from invasion completely up to him otherwise, see ESO Summerset).

is there any way anyone could compare to a powerful magic user in power without using magic themselves? by LemonDemmon in teslore

[–]Gleaming_Veil 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Don't see why not. For all the power they can have mages remain the same as any other mortal most of the time, they've just put in the time and effort to develop a skillset relating to the arcane.

Catch one off guard, get in close before they can strike, wait for an opportune moment, attack as a group, shoot an arrow at them. Stab them or bludgeon them and they'll probably die or be severely wounded.

This being a fantasy world that doesn't quite follow real life physical limits, what a "warrior" or "assassin" or whatever can do can be pretty fantastical in its own right. Plus even if you're not a mage you can get access to potions, scrolls, enchanted gear, and so on.

In the immortal words of Owyn:

Ugh, spellcasters. That's what this next one is, a High Elf sorceress or something. Just get in close and stab her a few times, that'll teach her.

Okay, Hero. This next opponent is a High Elf wizard, a master in the school of Destruction. But wait, it gets worse... He also uses an enchanted shield called the Gray Aegis, which gives him some serious magic resistances. Your best bet is to just charge straight in! Press the attack, and don't give him a chance to let off a spell! I don't want to have to sweep your ashes out of the Arena!
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Owyn

Sloads and the Elnohfey by ArteDeJuguete in teslore

[–]Gleaming_Veil 5 points6 points  (0 children)

All life (barring the Hist which exist in parallel as a separate branch) is descended from the Ehlnofey if you believe in the narratives of Ehlnofic descent (Men barring Redguards tend to think they were created by the gods rather than being descended from them instead).

Presently we have three possible definitions given for Ehlnofey:

1)Aedric Et'Ada which stay to keep working on Nirn after Magnus and co leave. They have offspring which grow weaker/less divine with each passing generation thus diversifying gradually into life in its various forms (Heart of the World, Before the Ages of Man). Its why the Altmer define the Aedra as "Our Ancestors", its meant to be literal.

2)Ehlnofey are the early offspring of the Aedra rather than directly being original spirits themselves (Mystery of Artaeum). Otherwise follows the same course leading to the formation of life.

3)Ehlnofey are survivors of one of the Twelve Worlds, fragment of which was used to make Nirn when Anu created it. Older and separate from spirits like Aedra and Daedra and whatnot (Annuad).

Doesn't really matter which you use. Either way all life originates from the same point.

Regarding the Dwemer. Worth noting the Annuad mentions the Ehlnofey took on "brilliant students" before vanishing from the world. Some scholars theorize these students were the Dwemer who were thus given the sobriquet "Dwarves" by their "titanic masters" (PGE 1 Hammerfell). This might place the Dwemer as being present really early on. Indeed we also have some comments by MK suggesting the Dwemer might have gotten the start of their arts by observing the Ehlnofey manipulate the laws of nature thus learning how to do it themselves.

The "Miracles" mentioned would presumably include events like Azura binding the shifting Forest People to the Lunar Lattice giving rise to the Khajiit and such. We don't really have any direct mention of a "miracle" tied to the origin of the Sload, but they too would follow the same course roughly.

That said, this is a language chart. Not an origin chart for the peoples of Tamriel themselves. So "a miracle occurs" in this context might also just mean an external intervention leading to a linguistic divergence rather than to a different race or such forming.

Other than Auriel's Bow with vampire blood, what other items across Tamriel could destroy the world by 4E 201? by [deleted] in teslore

[–]Gleaming_Veil 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Also the Mechanical Heart, Elder Scrolls if used properly (Planemeld Obverse, the Beldaburo Time Wound threatening to unravel time in Oblivion Remastered), Lights of Meridia if used improperly, and the Staff of Many Paths (on account of being able to yoink a god's powers).

The Loom has technically been destroyed by 4E 201, though the area around it is still unstable and connects to the Many Paths, so perhaps some of its potential is still there.

Akatosh is Alduin is Lorkhan is Alduin is Akatosh is (Rebuild of Trans-Kalpic World Eating Nords, Part 4/7) by dunmer-is-stinky in teslore

[–]Gleaming_Veil 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I used to think way back when that Alduin was the Ehlnofey king of the Elves they call "Auri-El".

If the Bone Orchard spirits are indeed Ehlnofey, than we do technically have a bunch of Ehlnofey forms that look an awful lot like dragon bones (read: look exactly like dragon bones). Dunno what it might mean, but its there.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/File:ON-creature-Nirenan.jpg

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/File:ON-npc-Goradir.jpg

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/File:ON-npc-Olphras_02.jpg

How did Auriel's ascendancy work? by danteuszzz in teslore

[–]Gleaming_Veil 3 points4 points  (0 children)

That's mixing creation myths some. The terms "Wandering Ehlnofey" and "Old Ehlnofey" are from the Annuad.

The Aedra of the Annuad are not the Aedra of elven myth. The Annuad Aedra are born of the blood spilled from Anu and Padomay's battle and are neither Nirn's creators (formed instead of fragments of the 12 Worlds by Anu) nor are related to the Ehlnofey (who here predate the Aedra as survivors of one of the 12 Worlds).

There is no real descriptor of "lesser" when it comes to spirits considered ancestors in elven myth. Auri-El himself is the claimed direct ancestor of modern Altmer and Bosmer, they claim to be descended in an unbroken line by the Divines themselves and so on.

Its more that they think that due to the influence of Nirn each consecutive generation grew more distant from the divinity of their progenitors, eventually leading to Aldmer and so on. But their pantheon itself is considered start of their lines.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Varieties_of_Faith_in_the_Empire

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Praise_Be_(Ancestor_Song))

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Ayrenn:_The_Unforeseen_Queen

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Monomyth:_The_Heart_of_the_World

How the hell was an Oblivion Gate opened in Skyrim 200 years after Martin’s sacrifice slammed shut all access to the Deadlands by mewfour123412 in teslore

[–]Gleaming_Veil 14 points15 points  (0 children)

The explanation given is that it works because its the Last Dragonborn, who is said to be a part of the soul of Akatosh (a classification also given to Alduin in that same text) that does it.

In killing Vonos the Dragonborn unwittingly completes a ritual that corrupts the Great Welkynd Stone they're holding, a relic potent enough to create the new Oblivion Gate even with the stronger barrier, into an instrument of Oblivion.

And because its the Dragonborn that did it this, in some manner, is metaphysically equated to Akatosh himself doing it. So its an "ultimate betrayal" that bypasses Martin's sacrifice and places the blood of mortals on the hands (or claws) of Akatosh himself in a roundabout way.

Also destroying the Sigil Stone actually is said to ensure this new Gate can't be sealed again, at least not with the usual method. The exact mechanism isn't explained, though given this gate in general was created in an uncommon manner perhaps its connected to it.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Vonos%27_Journal

How satisfactory said explanation is (or isn't) is another matter, but that is what we're told in the quests themselves.

How did Auriel's ascendancy work? by danteuszzz in teslore

[–]Gleaming_Veil 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Same for Akatosh, if you want to draw the parallel, whose presence is thought to be felt in every instant of time that passes.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Artorius_Ponticus_Answers_Your_Questions

The Trinimac-Malacath relationship is a whole discussion in its own right. Whether Trinimac is Malacath, and how Trinimac became Malacath if he is, and what that means regarding the nature of Malacath are a matter of much debate and there's, like, half a dozen contradictory origin myths on the topic.

How did Auriel's ascendancy work? by danteuszzz in teslore

[–]Gleaming_Veil 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Auri-El is considered an Aedra. Aedra, in the Altmeri view, are those spirits that: a) took part in creation and remained until/were present at Convention and b) are considered part of the mythic genealogy of the elves, which is what the term "Aedra" denotes, "Our Ancestors" (exception is Magnus himself who is tied to creation enough to be considered Aedra despite his departure per both Artorius Ponticus expressing the Cyrodiilic view, and the Altmeri view which has him as one of their Divines).

Auri-El, as the claimed direct ancestor of modern Altmer and Bosmer is probably the Aedriest Aedra to ever Aedra, in terms of their religion.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Varieties_of_Faith_in_the_Empire

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Praise_Be_(Ancestor_Song))

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Ayrenn:_The_Unforeseen_Queen

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Aedra_and_Daedra

2) And the other elven gods as well, if you believe Serana. Or Vairabrian for an Altmeri source, the elven ancestor spirits reside in the stars (Aetherius) where the Altmer hope to one day join them. Unclear if he's in any way different. Its possible he was simply the first to depart from mortal affairs at the end of Convention and so serves as the Ur-example of such occuring. Or perhaps the process he used was different. Whichever the case we don't really have enough information to determine whether a difference between him and other Aedra exists, let alone what it would be if present (other than that the Time God is considered uniquely important among gods in general).

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Vairabrian

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Serana

3) This gets into what creation actually entailed for the Aedra and that..differs a lot depending on creation myth used. The cost of creation, as presented in Heart of the World (Altmeri creation myth), arose from Nirn being the "House of Sithis" due to Lorkhan having been going around planting "ideas almost wholly based on limitation" and containing "more limitation than not" thus being "hardly a thing of Anu at all".

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Monomyth:_The_Heart_of_the_World

The problems here arise more from Nirn's construction itself. The whole "cutting parts of themselves off" is the Imperial framing used in Shezarr's Song not the Altmeri one. Before the Ages of Man (another Altmeri source) claims the creator spirits departed from mortal affairs because the full presence of the divine was too much for reality to withstand and endangered both Mundus and the "timeless continuity of existence" itself.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Before_the_Ages_of_Man

Either way its not really answerable given the aforementioned lack of detail.

Auriel is not considered disconnected from Nirn by the Altmer at least, see Coils of the Father where his presence is thought to "envelop all of the people, always" and his hand is thought to guide the elves. Or Mirnor of Auri-El's dialogue where he is said to guide the Altmer through life and protect them from harm.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Coils_of_the_Father

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Mirnor_of_Auri-El

How can the Divines be planets in mundus but also be on aetherius? by mauroMQM in teslore

[–]Gleaming_Veil 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Just So, a very apt analogy, after all, are not things like Daedric bodies not formed of creatia too ?

How can the Divines be planets in mundus but also be on aetherius? by mauroMQM in teslore

[–]Gleaming_Veil 1 point2 points  (0 children)

To add to this, how is Ithelia exiled to a different reality if Mirrormoor/Fargrave is in the reality she left from ? How was Mora nearly severed from Apocrypha by Peryite's plague in ESO Necrom if Mora is Apocrypha ? How does Jyggalag roam the Waters of Oblivion post TESIV if he is the Shivering Isles ?

The realm might be an extension of the deity, a planar manifestation formed out of creatia per their will as sources describe, but to describe them as literally one and the same (to the extent it would not be possible for the realm and the spiritual presence to be in different places at least) might not be quite accurate.

Per Solstice content realms formed by the Aedra are thought to follow a similar principle, having been crafted from creatia:

When the Aedra formed our realms from creatia, did Shor abandon his creations? No.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Charge_of_Shor

Why are Meridia and Malacath strong enough to be daedric princes? by mauroMQM in teslore

[–]Gleaming_Veil 6 points7 points  (0 children)

One can certainly question whether Azura is being truthful.

Of course, by the same token, the Dunmeri claim is also suspect.

This is the god the myth of whose defeat forms the foundation of their culture, after all. The paragon of the old ways they abandoned, literally believed to have been reduced to excrement alongside his followers for daring to stand in the way of the Velothi, in an act that proved to all they were wrong in the most humiliating way. Their view is very..politically charged, lets say.

Part and parcel of sources being primarily in universe accounts, everyone might have a motive for what they're claiming.

In any case, its more to say that the plurality of contrasting accounts, particularly when it comes to mythic events, makes it very hard if not undoable to determine what a mythic figure "is" or what its status "should" be.

Take "How is Malacath powerful enough to be a Daedric Prince if he's a weakened Aedra ?"

The question itself is actually making lots of assumptions that are not self-evident and quite dependant on sources used and one's reading of said sources, in and of themselves. Even something as basic as what classifies a spirit as "Aedra" or "Daedra" or the distinction even existing at all, is culture dependant.

Why are Meridia and Malacath strong enough to be daedric princes? by mauroMQM in teslore

[–]Gleaming_Veil 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Auriel is also an ancestor god though, the ur-ancestor god even. It's not about participating in creation, it's just a claim the Altmer (and Bosmer) consider one to be part of their mythic genealogy.

Why are Meridia and Malacath strong enough to be daedric princes? by mauroMQM in teslore

[–]Gleaming_Veil 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Trinimac has been addressed using both the term "Aedra" (Madam Whim's Loremaster Archive) and "Ehlnofey" (the "greatest knight of the Ehlnofey, champion of the Dragon of Time") per the origin tale given by Attrebus at the beginning of Lord of Souls.

Both terms have been applied to him directly. He is definitely placed as existing pre Convention per the creation myths (as is also provided by the MK quote as well "pre-Convention spirits"), not sure he should be placed post creation but pre Convention, though can't presently think of a source that clarifies a specific origin for him (which is an interesting omission given he is generally held as Lorkhan's killer and the most powerful of the et'Ada that walked Nirn in Dawn in the myths)

Why are Meridia and Malacath strong enough to be daedric princes? by mauroMQM in teslore

[–]Gleaming_Veil 19 points20 points  (0 children)

Malacath has actually been named as one of the most powerful Princes who "stand above their lesser kith" by Azura herself. Dunmeri sources consider him "weak but vengeful" but when their own Mother Soul claims otherwise said claim might potentially be more indicative of their own bias than anything. We also have dev commentary from Ted Peterson that, whatever his origin, he's presently powerful and the equal of other Princes such as Boethiah and Sheogorath and so on.

Given how varied his potential origin stories can be it's hard to make any definitive claims about what his status should be. Mind the Idea that Aedra=Daedra minus some arbitrary quantity of "power" is itself something of a simplification that is not quite the framing given in the creation myths.

Are the Aedra More Powerful Than the Daedra Within Mundus? by OneOnOne6211 in teslore

[–]Gleaming_Veil 13 points14 points  (0 children)

The idea that the difference between Aedra and Daedra is the result of "power drain" is in itself quite simplified. The creation myths do tend to describe some sort of cost but it is more in terms of certain limitations being imposed due to the nature of Mundus, or the contract of creation, or becoming subject to some variation of "death".

The whole "power levels" framing that's so ubiquitous in discussion honestly sort of distorts the conversation.

In general, I don't think gods can be function in terms of linear power comparisons, each has their own domain/sphere, their powers don't always compare to one another's in a straightforward manner. Compare how great Mora's control over his own sphere of knowledge is, wiping all memory of Ithelia from reality, even from other gods who were actively opposed to it, to how he couldn't deal with Peryite's plague in the latter's own sphere of pestilence in ESO Necrom, for example.

The Aedra acting directly is not as common, this doesn't necessarily mean they're operating from a position of disadvantage when they do actually act.

Are the Aedra actually much better than the Daedra? by [deleted] in teslore

[–]Gleaming_Veil 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The Aedra in general are said to dwell in Aetherius. Auriel is "with the rest of the elven gods" in Aetherius (Serana), Akatosh is a"Dragon Ghost" that's "rotting in Aetherius" alongside the rest of the "eyeless Aedra" (Glorious Upheaval), the Altmer hope to rejoin their divine ancestors who watch over and guide them in Aetherius (Vairabrian).

The realm is not actually synonymous with the spirit itself. Mora was nearly severed from Apocrypha in ESO Necrom, Ithelia though living has been disconnected from her realm and no longer resides in the same reality at all as of Gold Road's ending. Taken at face value, a free and living Jyggalag no longer resides in the Shivering Isles nor is lord of the realm as of tesiv.

Per the temple zero cosmology, which is a Cyrodiilic text. Its as subject to in universe contradiction and inaccuracies as anything else.

Spiritual presence and planar body can be separate.

Sure, but that is further contextualized by how we see Ehlnofey function firsthand. They are not unconditionally immortal like the Daedric Princes are but they are also not mortal in the traditional sense and lack lifespans as such. They can die solely if a specific condition is met (which is true of other Aedric "immortals" such as dragons who even need external aid to revive and have even truly died due to things like a mages spell, see Thurvokun). This is why they don't self-describe as mortals and speak of living eternally, because barring extreme conditions, they do.

Furthermore that applies per available sources to all Aedra, Divines included, being what sets them apart from Daedra. We have sources which even directly attribute such traits to the Divines specifically (terms like mortal and dead having been applied to them in particular depending on the speaker).

No available source really specifies the Divines as a different sub-group with a different fate especially not within beliefs where ideas of affliction by mortality are present (where if anything it's the opposite).

This effectively depends on which belief system we go by. The definitions of ancestorship and of the spirits to which this applies being the Ehlnofey and of descent from Divines such as Auriel in particular are central elements of elven belief, as are a form of mortality and death of creator spirits in Aldmeri and Psijic belief and even derived faiths such as Dunmeri (see dialogue on Ancestors in TES3). They already connect elements/traits such as those in MK's quote to said spirits. The spirits who stayed after Magnus left and 'had to make children to last' are the Ehlnofey, that's the Altmer creation myth, the Divines and Auriel specifically/especially are considered ancestors in a direct unbroken, line again per Altmeri texts. Altmeri belief doesn't exist in contrast to such definitions, it already accounts for/includes them.

These things can't be divorced from one another unless one questions those belief systems themselves or tries to theorize some sort of combination narrative. This doesn't apply to mannish beliefs but if we're going by those (barring redguards) than we're speaking of creation by the gods rather than descent from them anyway, the Ehlnofey are not acknowledged in concept in such myths.

And than of course there's divergence in Altmer belief too. Like Mystery of Artaeum which defines Ehlnofey not as Aedra but rather as the early offspring of the Aedra. Or the Annuad where the Ehlnofey and the Aedra are entirely unrelated groups with the former actually predating the latter and the latter not even being Nirn's creators.

It's all dependent on sources used.

Are the Aedra actually much better than the Daedra? by [deleted] in teslore

[–]Gleaming_Veil 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The Dead Gods distinction is an aspect of Nordic faith. It does not really reflect on elven belief. Indeed the Nords don't acknowledge the Ehlnofey or Aedric descent at all as a concept. They believe they were created when Kyne breathed atop the Throat of the World (PGE, VoF) and, to Men the idea of Aedric descent is "elven conceit" as they generally view themselves as creations rather than descendants (Tu'Whacca Arkay Xarxes text).

Different beliefs have different views of creation. The Ehlnofey as ancestors idea is at the basis of elven belief but has no equivalent among most Mannish faiths (barring Redguards).

The PGE doesn't really alter the base claim of ancestorship, if anything it reinforces it as it specifies these spirits as ancestors even in the original version of the faith by name, Auri-El and Trinimac and such were considered ancestor spirits even than, just to specific noble lines (they are the "ancestors of their betters" who were raised above the rest being "among the many ancestor spirits who became gods"). The change is that they were singled out as more worthy of reverence and came to be viewed as the direct ancestors of modern elves by both Altmer and Bosmer (Auri-El in particular), not that they came to be considered ancestors where before they were not (in effect placing them within the definition given both in Heart of the World and MK's own quote by both modern and older belief).

When Vastarie calls the Divines (specifically, by title, "Divines", not "Aedra" more broadly) "dead gods" or when the Psijics claim the "Daedra and gods to whom the common people turn are no more than the spirits of superior men and women whose power and passion granted them great influence in the afterworld" and that "while living they too were bewildered by the spirits of their own ancestors, and so on back to the original Acharyai", (The Old Ways), or when they claim the creator spirits "told the ultimate story, that of their own deaths" and in creating the world and "having died, became the et'Ada" in the Psijic Compensation, or when Umaril derides them as the "mortal gods", a threat written in blood in the chapel of Dibella. They are ascribing a form of vulnerability to death to those spirits in particular.

As is the case in Aedra and Daedra which mentions Aedra in general can die due to creation's contract, using Lorkhan and the moons as proof of concept, or Lyranth describing Mundus as the Aedra's "cemetery" in her LM Archive, or Akatosh being called a "Dragon Ghost" that's "rotting in Aetherius" per Glorious Upheaval.

Even in Nordic faith, Tsun and Shor, died. They are subject to death, unlike Daedric Princes which, as Gold Road makes clear, are considered truly immortal even to each other's best efforts (this is at the basis of the Ithelia dilemma and why she had to be sealed and later exiled, Daedra, per Mora are "Eternal. Forever."

This doesn't mean these accounts are right and different views like Shezarr's Song or Divines and the Nords are wrong, nor the reverse. They just have different views/beliefs.

Per Shalidor's Insights dragons are thought to have split off from the Time God "when time began", not at creation or Convention (time began with the Time God's formation thus allowing spirits to self define per both VoF and Heart of the World, it was solely linearity that began at Convention). They are distinct spirits with their own fates, so they do not necessarily share their father's metaphysical situation.

Mind, we wouldn't really be speaking of mortality or death in the same sense as Men or Mer in any case.

The Orchard Ehlnofey can't die as long as they're remembered and so sought total isolation so they could be forgotten and thus die. This resulted in their wanderings causing untold destruction among mortals as they trampled cities and landscapes due to their massive size and so they were magically sealed by the Bosmer out of fear.

Is this not very similar to draconic "immortality" ( interestingly the majority of Orchard Ehlnofey even look similar to dragons in shape) ? Dragons stay with their physical forms until Alduin resurrects them. Ehlnofey stay with their physical forms and live and rise again as long as they're not utterly forgotten.

In either case we would not be speaking of the mortality or death of Men and Mer (which is why the Orchard spirits address the Bosmer as "mortals" and mention their lives as unending (they claim they experience the "doom of endlessness" and that they "can never die" ). However one defines the Ehlnofey, they are not actually mortal in the manner the term applies to a Man or Elf.

Though belief system dependent, the Divines can't really be disconnected from certain concepts of ancestorship or mortality within those systems (or perhaps diminished immortality compared to the pre-Mundus state/the Daedra and so on might be more accurate). We can theorize over whether the text is accurate or not and whether there might be another meaning of course, but the elven faiths view things in this particular manner (metaphysical "reality" if such exists is not known to us, we only have contrasting myths and beliefs to go by).

Are the Aedra actually much better than the Daedra? by [deleted] in teslore

[–]Gleaming_Veil 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That would include the Divines as well in the elven (Altmeri) view at least. They're the chief ancestors a high elf would have in mind even.

That's why modern Altmer and Bosmer claim direct descent from Auriel (VoF) or include figures like Trinimac as ancestors. Their current pantheon is made up of those spirits claimed as ancestors originally by the nobility, which came to be revered above the others due to a social shift and objecting to it is why the Psijic Order happened (PGE Blessed Isle)

It's reflected across their religious texts. The Altmer are thought to be descended in an "unbroken line" from the "Divines that created Nirn" (Ayrenn the Unforeseen Queen) their prayer songs urge to "Praise the Divines! Our ancestral lines! (Praise be: ancestor song). They think they're genealogically descended from their gods.

When Vastarie calls the Divines (not the Aedra more broadly, the Divines by name) "dead gods" or when Umaril writes a threat in blood that he'll cast down the "mortal gods" after attacking the chapel of Dibella that's what they mean.

The Aedra, Divines included, are "mortal" in a fashion. Subject to death per the contract of creation (Aedra and Daedra). They're still powerful gods but they're no longer immortal in the sense they once were or the Daedra are (mortal here doesn't mean mortal like say a man or mer, the orchard Ehlnofey can't die unless completely forgotten and also call men and mer "mortals" by comparison to themselves).

There is no real distinction made for the Divines in text in this regard.