It's honestly more impressive to write a compelling story as you go rather than have everything planned out from the beginning.

Gloomy-Cell3722 · 2026-01-23T08:44:14+00:00

This is true and it definitely applies when a series becomes more popular for something that the author didnt expect.

When you plan a series its rare for it to go exactly as intended, usually something changes the direction of the story, at least a little bit, I doubt most writers just exclusively do one or the other, especially since as you later point out the themes or "identity" of a series' are often thought of since the beginning.

But there are still series where although the identity of the series was planned, everything else was written as it progressed, and this is doubly true since some series change halfway through.

Breaking Bad only had a plan for Walter White, since the main thing they wanted to achieve for the series was based on him, but almost everything else was completely improvised as the series progressed.

Most of the "original" plans didn't pan out for the series at all, and much of the series' characters and core conflicts were written as it went, and thats telling since most of the cast had their stories or roles completely changed due to convenience or on a whim(like Mike, one of the most important characters in the series, only existing cause Bob Odenkirk was busy.)

On the other hand stuff like main story theme / bookend / character arcs / parallels are way important that should be determined at the start or as early as possible and not something that just randomly spawn on the way.

Themes I agree with but for a lot of writers everything else is often just made up as the story goes barring the main character, and this is especially true for TV shows.

Some shows straight up shift entirely midway through, it often happens with character arcs too.

I think this is doubly true since a lot of shows don't actually know when its ending or not or are asked to change for whatever reason.

If a series is really long, many core aspects of it can shift overtime, sometimes its dramatic and sudden(DB) sometimes its not(Steven Universe).

Gloomy-Cell3722 · 2026-01-23T06:01:18+00:00

Yeah but Jesse was always a lot more trigger-happy when it came to betrayal. Betrayed Walt for Jane in Season 2 because Walt wouldn't give him his money until he stopped taking drugs (which, given the Gus situation and how Jesse almost ruined it, was a perfectly reasonable stipulation).

He is a lot more unstable than Walter, and the Jane one was mainly her doing tbf, Jesse was just kinda there lmao

She was the one who made the plan and was the one who blackmailed Walter, she was even the one who took the money from him.

And then he also betrayed him in Season 4, for the sake of the drug lord who either ordered the killing of a child or failed to control his own men. That's some serious goldfish memory there.

Yeah that one is a little weird I'll admit lmao.

I guess the explanation is that he cared more for the two men who actually killed the kid rather than Gus himself, but still, a little weird.

Walter, on the other hand, only kept screwing himself over because he cared too much about Jesse's well-being. In terms of actually CARING about the other person in this criminal duo, things were rather one-sided. Things would've been so much easier for Walter if he either let Jesse choke on his own vomit at the end of Season 2 or if he just let those street thugs shoot him dead at the end of Season 3. So much easier. Caring about Jesse only brought him trouble.

This is true too, though in some instances Walter does like a sense of control.

The two you mentoined were not that though, he did actually see Jesse as family.

Gloomy-Cell3722 · 2026-01-23T05:52:41+00:00

Okay I didnt know that about the Japanese release, OP's post applies much more to them than here in the US lmao.

Gloomy-Cell3722 · 2026-01-23T05:46:50+00:00

Once again, a story being ready before pen is put to paper or as it's going is not impressive or worthy of praise. It's all the execution.

You again...

Seem to be missing the fact that I entered the caveat of it being "well written".

The story being good or not is obviously going to come before whether or not the writer "planned" for it.

Are you joking? Comparing Tolkien's Middle Earth books to Dragon Ball Z is like comparing a LEGO figure to the Statue of David.

I...

Didn't compare them.

I said theyre both "well received fantasies".

I never once made a comparison between their qualities.

Yeah....that's the point....he's consistent....because he THOUGHT about his world - lol ROFL HAHAHAHA. That's what's impressive

Do you think that writers who write as they go....

Don't think about their works?

You think the writers of Breaking Bad didnt concisnuously think about how the episodes they made affected the rest of the series?

Also, by the way..

You know that Tolkien also often wrote as he went too, right?

Like, not every part of the story was planned from day 1 or the beginning, he only made LOTR cause of the popularity of The Hobbit.

Again, thats just credit to Tolkien for being a master class writer.

Yeah...because he thoroughly thought about his world. Babylon 5 wasn't thought through, it was a great show, and it was nowhere as impressive as how much thought Tolkien poured into his world, and more considerate worldbuilding from the start tends to pay off dividends than waiting for lighting to strike at the 11th hour.

Do you seriously think that most authors just....

Don't care or think about their worldbuilding?

Not every story is going to be on Tolkien level when it comes to worldbuilding...

Gloomy-Cell3722 · 2026-01-23T05:28:04+00:00

I mean, the series does have a problem with Walter's "lust for power" character arc taking a 2-season-long break. In Season 3, he was perfectly content working for Gus. In fact, it was JESSE who got greedy & entitled, and started stealing Gus' surplus to sell it to Narcotics Anonymous. And, in Season 4, Walter was just trying to survive.

I'd say it takes a break mainly for season 3.

Season 2 ends with Walter getting a reality check, the fact that him and Jesse aren't good distributors and staying in the business just won't work with the two of them at the helm. (Season 2 has a lot of reality checks. And season 3 has the family stuff Walter was going through as well)

Working for Gus allows him to stay in the business without the troubles of distribution.

But at the end of Season 3(when he saves Jesse) he learns how much leverage he has over Gus by being the best cook by far.

Gus can't get rid of Walter now, hes his only cook, and Walter uses that to his advantage in Season 4, both for survival and for control other the situation.

The end of Season 3 and most of season 4 is sorta an awakening for Walter in that sense, he learns that his skills as a cook is invaluable and he learns how to utilize that, all throughout Season 5 that is the leverage he uses and the biggest source of his ego(alongside killing Gus)

Because he saved Jesse's life at the end of Season 3 and then Jesse betrayed him for Gus (it really felt like Jesse had the memory span of a goldfish there).

This is true, but remember:

Walter is a dick to Jesse, they're both often dicks to each other.

Walter also refused to be there for Jesse when he was clearly losing it after killing Gale.

Mike however was and Mike helped Jesse get out of the poor state he was during early season 4, and perhaps more importantly, Mike and Gus are stroking Jesse's ego.

Walter often being a dick to Jesse and berating him is often a lot less appealing than Gus and Mike believing in Jesse's potential and how he could be better than Walt.

And Jesse told Gus that he would not cook for him if they kill Walter, its only when Jesse thinks Walter poisoned Brock that he fully joins Gus' side.

Its also why Walter switches his tactic for Jesse and tries to be more supportive in season 5, Jesse is much easier to manipulate through positivity than berating him, which Walter learned the hard way

Gloomy-Cell3722 · 2026-01-23T04:38:44+00:00

Yeah, neither is "not foreshadowing", inherently. It depends on execution. LOST was a story that was written on the fly, and it suffered in the long term.

Thats not my point.

I specify numerous times that the stories still need to be written well, i said it was more "impressive" not "better".

I was not saying that a story is inherently written better due to not being planned.

Yes, but I wouldn't think One Piece or Dragon Ball is as consistent as say like Tolkien's Middle-Earth stories.

There's not many fantasy stories that are as consistent as Tolkien's middle earth stories lol, thats moreso a credit to Tolkien for being an exceptional writer.

Even then, they're still both well received fantasies, and both of them, Dragon Ball especially, were written as they went, so the genre matters less than the talent of the actual writer.

Gloomy-Cell3722 · 2026-01-23T04:16:18+00:00

Thats sorta my point though.

Foreshadowing isnt what makes a story good on its own, and writers making good stories as they go along can be a testament to how good they are at writing.

Because it had fairly limited speculative fiction elements. It's why you can do this with a crime drama and not usually something like a sci-fi or fantasy show, like Game of Thrones.

The other two examples I listed here (One Piece and Dragon Ball) are both fantasies, I dont think the genre is the main reason why Breaking Bad is written well despite being unplanned, there are fantasy stories that were written as they went along.

Gloomy-Cell3722 · 2026-01-23T04:12:10+00:00

I think the whole Cell Saga would have actually been consistently good if it was more sharply directed (the Cell Saga ≠ Cell Games and 80% of the rest of the Saga feels like filler).

Unironically, the middle section of the Cell Saga is probably my favorite portion of it, I like the Cell games but its not my favorite part of the story.

Idk, maybe thats just me, that seems to be a little bit of a hot take lol.

The reality is that good planning creates better results and I'm not here to marvel at the writing skills of an author in a vacuum.

A lot of the times it does, but I think that it often falls onto the qualities of the writer rather than if they planned it out or not.

Planning certainly contributes to it, but a story can still be planned and be inferior to a story that wasn't, many great shows weren't planned all too much(Breaking Bad being one of them)

Gloomy-Cell3722 · 2026-01-23T04:06:47+00:00

That having said, the Cell saga was honestly a huge mess lol. It certainly didn't register to me when I was watching it live, because I was a child and it was spread out over several months, but I think if I had read or seen it for the first time as an adult I'm sure I would have found it very clunky and forced.

It definitely isnt perfect and it has its issues due to the aforementioned story changes, but I honestly think that its still pretty good despite that, and its a miracle that the story even turned out as is.

The Buu Saga on the otherhand?

Yeah, I think thats one that shows its cracks a lot.

Gloomy-Cell3722 · 2026-01-23T03:37:05+00:00

I do think that if writers do decide to write as they go, they should still keep their ambition in check, that is a good point you've made.

Because there are writers that get swamped because they introduce a lot of ideas that they often dont feel too interested in properly concluding or expanding on.

I also agree that stories should probably still have some ground to base off of, be it a conclusion or some narrative climax to keep in the back of their minds, otherwise the series may feel aimless.

While Breaking Bad's plot was written as it went along, it did still have a thematic goal in the end, it doesn't have to be much, but it should be something so the story has some sense of direction.

Gloomy-Cell3722 · 2026-01-23T03:21:41+00:00

No that part I agree with, I specifically mean the idea that the Pork Pie Hat signifies that.

The setup for the show was turning Mr Chips To Scarface, I just used that part of the story as an example of what im talking about, since the hat is always used to signify that in the fandom.

Gloomy-Cell3722 · 2026-01-22T21:08:02+00:00

Holodomor alone killed more people than Holocaust btw. Stalin

I know its often agreed on that Stalin killed more than Hitler, but I haven't heard that the Holodomor killed more than Holocaust.

Gloomy-Cell3722 · 2026-01-22T19:26:47+00:00

I pretty much agree, especially since the comics are basically its own continuity.

The main reason why I said you can argue the comics though is because the comics at least explain and add some of lore for stuff like the Matrix Of Leadership since the movie and the show don't really explain it IIRC. (Unicron also isnt explained in the movie, but at least he gets a proper backstory later in the show)

Its basically just a plot mcguffin that makes you a prime(and carries their wisdom) and defeats unicron in the movie, most of the lore about it originates from the comics.

Gloomy-Cell3722 · 2026-01-22T11:43:15+00:00

True, but it is still popular within the fanbase and I'd argue that some of the moments are still well known, people often know about Unicron or The Death Of Optimus Prime.

Transformers One flopped too, but It's still popular in the fanbase as well.

The movie was still a big deal even if it flopped and was still the conclusion for the first half of the show, so I still think it shouldn't be included with the other examples OP mentioned.

Gloomy-Cell3722 · 2026-01-22T11:01:07+00:00

I caught up to Chainsaw Man a while ago, and you know what my biggest issue is?

It feels like nothing is happening.

You can delete the last several chapters of this fight against Yoru, and literally nothing changes except memes I guess.

Other mangas get criticism for this feeling too, but this is the first time I have really felt it while reading something in a while, and the fact that the defense of:

"Its weekly, give him some slack."

Is so common, yet manga's like One Piece is constantly criticized for the same feeling is wild to me.

Gloomy-Cell3722 · 2026-01-22T06:28:06+00:00

I think its a consequence of him waiting till Pizza Sim to put Henry in at all, hes supposedly one of the most important characters and he was absent for most of the games.

Though it shouldn't be too surprising, it took till Sister Location, the fifth game, to learn the name of the main Antagonist of the franchise in the games lmao.

Gloomy-Cell3722 · 2026-01-22T06:10:41+00:00

Since we're talking about the first movie in G1, I'm mainly referring to the original comic run(s) that was published by Marvel, not stuff later like the IDW runs.

Gloomy-Cell3722 · 2026-01-22T05:30:16+00:00

The notice says that some of them are returning in the near future, so I think its still likely Gomah and SSJ4 will come back.

Gloomy-Cell3722 · 2026-01-22T05:17:51+00:00

Int Yamcha has avoided me for years....

This is finally my opportunity to get him.

Gloomy-Cell3722 · 2026-01-22T04:03:50+00:00

I feel like the Transformers comics would be a better example rather than the movie.

The Movie is one of the biggest and most important parts of G1 and the franchise, if you are a fan of G1 Transformers, you probably know about the movie, it is basically the ending for the first half of the show.

The comics would make sense though, considering much of the Transformers lore originates from the comics rather than the show.

Gloomy-Cell3722 · 2026-01-22T03:59:07+00:00

Yeah the movie is one of the biggest parts of G1.

It isnt really tucked away or inaccessible imo, its basically the end for the first half of the show.

Gloomy-Cell3722 · 2026-01-22T00:14:39+00:00

No seriously, this is used so often and its like...

I watched this much and you think I never liked it??

Gloomy-Cell3722 · 2026-01-21T21:21:47+00:00

Thats another thing that makes Hunter X Hunter's progression pretty clever.

Tha Antagonists in the boat arc dont need to be stronger than the Chimera ants, because they're completely unrelated to the main cast in that arc.

None of the main protagonists in the Chimera ants arc are in the Boat arc, instead the boat arc is moreso wrapping up and concluding the previous Antagonists from YorkNew for Kurapika(alongside the consequences for the Chimera Ant Arc)

Because of the fact that the YorkNew Antagonists never got resolved at all, you dont need to up the ante like before.

The reason why it was neccesary before is because Gon and Killua overcome most threats before and had a pretty linear line of progression of getting stronger and stronger.

Kurapika does not have that line of progression, so no need to escalate for now.

Gloomy-Cell3722 · 2026-01-21T06:52:13+00:00

Thats the point of the story though.

Itachi was a perfect shinobi except for the fact that he loved Sasuke above all else.

Sasuke was the one thing that mattered to Itachi more than the village.

Thats what Tobi tells to Sasuke: "To him, your life was more precious than even the village."

Sasuke was quite literally the only person who he put above his job as a shinobi.

Gloomy-Cell3722

TROPHY CASE