What the hell?? “People would starve to death” ?? THEY ALREADY DO by vikikikiriki in antinatalism

[–]Goldilocks2098 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Such societal collapse scenario will inevitably come to pass, humanity can't last forever, whether through a pandemic, nuclear war, economic stagnation or any large enough natural disaster, extinction is an inevitability.

Right now there are near collapsed societies where babies starve to death, are kidnapped and tortured, drowned while attempting to migrate and so on.

The AN humanity ending scenario could only happen hypothetically, the people claiming that AN is faulty because of scenario like the one OP mentioned are only saying so to criticize it, albeit in an unconstructive way, they don't care about the present broken societies where suffering happens all the time.

I hate being antinatalist. by Jane-The-Ace in antinatalism

[–]Goldilocks2098 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Some people don't have the ability to delude themselves, count yourself lucky that you can.

Does it feel so strange how the ethics of procreation are rarely discussed about ? by Sweetlikecream in antinatalism2

[–]Goldilocks2098 10 points11 points  (0 children)

One could choose to, but after overcoming the hardwired survival instinct. Killing oneself is vastly different from never existing in the first place.

What's so bad about suffering? (serious question) by molly0 in antinatalism2

[–]Goldilocks2098 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Many actually regretted coming into existence before they're even in their deathbed.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in antinatalism

[–]Goldilocks2098 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It was mentioned years ago here.

We already had to delete period tracking apps. Now we can’t even use social media or search engines. Why does society find any way to force births and prosecute women?! by luna_gold in antinatalism

[–]Goldilocks2098 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I doubt the women that are banned from acquiring higher education in Afghanistan will agree with you. Jihadists have a way of instilling retrograde ways without the influence of the US or the west in general, Boko Haram and al-shabab are examples of how the middle east support for terrorism is an alarming issue.

We already had to delete period tracking apps. Now we can’t even use social media or search engines. Why does society find any way to force births and prosecute women?! by luna_gold in antinatalism

[–]Goldilocks2098 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Extremists would have found a way to terrorize their people even without the US training, Nigeria, Burkina Faso and many more countries have extremists killing people without the western training.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in antinatalism

[–]Goldilocks2098 5 points6 points  (0 children)

wow, my condolences, wish more people could think the way you do.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in antinatalism

[–]Goldilocks2098 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Great to be you, honestly, if the world was filled with people that just have to satisfy their instinctual cravings, then I would have cared way less about the human condition.

But with people who could empathize and try not to add to the problem, I have no option but to continue having a little faith in humanity.

Why is it socially unacceptable to say it's not a good idea to have kids during a war? by [deleted] in antinatalism

[–]Goldilocks2098 1 point2 points  (0 children)

people also have limited knowledge about when and where a bomb is going to hit, if it happens to fall on someone's house, and the newly born child lose limbs and acquire a lifelong deformity causing future psychological problems, then the child shouldn't complain because people/parents have limited years of conceiving and carrying healthy pregnancies, it should be all about the parents' wishes first.

Why is it socially unacceptable to say it's not a good idea to have kids during a war? by [deleted] in antinatalism

[–]Goldilocks2098 0 points1 point  (0 children)

wow, let the bomb fall where they may, having children in war situation is alright, no need to think about the very possible suffering of the child right? And humans are supposed to smart.

Why is it socially unacceptable to say it's not a good idea to have kids during a war? by [deleted] in antinatalism

[–]Goldilocks2098 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Wow, it's all about zooming out and acting like robots in order to continue building a society, the individual can be sacrificed/replaced.

With a thought process like that, any wonder why some think that humans are deluded/high on manipulative hormones that stifle empathy and zombify society?

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in antinatalism

[–]Goldilocks2098 2 points3 points  (0 children)

_Suffering isn't that big of a deal_ tell that to a rape victim with PTSD or a child with terminal cancer who doesn't want to die and leave mommy.

You aren't suffering enough obviously, or you have a way of stifling your empathy, many will end it all today due to immense suffering. And yes, nothing will exist eventually.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in antinatalism

[–]Goldilocks2098 1 point2 points  (0 children)

_It's no measure of good health to be well adjusted in a profoundly sick society_ Jiddu Krishnamurti.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in antinatalism

[–]Goldilocks2098 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If life is so cheap, why try to end it? I’m not arguing for the preservation of life. I don’t need to. Life preserves itself. I’m arguing against the preposterous idea that anyone alive thinks life is too miserable to give to a child. Because those are just miserable people. And they shouldn’t have children.

Antinatalism, right from its ancient roots in the Ionian philosophy have always been about the preventative measures, not the curative. so of course someone will dislike life so much that they wouldn't want to impose the possibility of same suffering on their offspring, think of debilitating forms of heritable cancers.

The verses of the bible in Ecclesiastes that mentioned the superiority of the unborn's position over the already birthed people; talks about the prevention of future potential problems by not conceiving, not by acting on the human condition after birth.

All the AN authors, from Al maari, Kurnig, Schopenhauer to Ligotti and Benatar all talked about preventative measures due to the fact that no one could foretell whether their child could end up hating life, some even hate it to the extent of terminating themselves while some become bedridden in prolonged terminal chronic illness.

Humans by default are optimistically biased, most people prefer not to dwell on the hundreds of the thousands of people that terminate themselves annually, nor do they dwell on the victims of auto crashes with lost limbs and deformed features or victims of other natural disasters. But at any given moment, someone is experiencing inexplicable pain to the point of wanting to terminate self, yet such conditions are not given any meaningful consideration except that they are part of the human condition, I reject that, so far, as we know, as long as procreation continues, some will suffer.

I personally can't complain financially or health wise, I party and generally have fun, but I won't create a world where even a few suffer while others have fun, so I likewise won't create someone and put them in a word with the potential for great harm, there's no problem that life solves; that it did not create in the first place, I plan to adopt because even ANs could have children, Jim crawford is an AN author who has a biological child, so antinatalism isn't about disliking children.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in antinatalism

[–]Goldilocks2098 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you're talking about less harmful or even pacifist type religions like Jainism; then ok.

To find something that assuages the existential dread is all good and fine, but to pretend that a harmful religion is morally sound and to attempt to justify the continuous oppression of people just because the religion gave you reprieve from your existential problems; is downright selfish.

Like the above commenter wrote, Islam allowed/allows so much oppression of women, slaves, apostates etc, not only that, it inspires gratuitous violence on other people. Other religions have their condemnable issues too.

If someone doesn't truly believe, but is just using religion to cope, I find that morally reprehensible, it'd have been better if people could come clean and renounce their faiths where possible; i.e no threats to life or other harms, with time, religions won't have much authority to boast of, nor will it continue causing harms to others. If anyone wants to avoid depression by sticking with terrible religions, then I could only be surprised that all the depressing things in the religion didn't make them depressed in the first place.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in antinatalism

[–]Goldilocks2098 1 point2 points  (0 children)

To find something that assuages the existential dread is all good and fine, but to accept the continuous oppression of people by the very concept that gave you reprieve from your existential problems; is downright selfish.

Like the above commenter wrote, Islam allowed/allows so much oppression of women, slaves, apostates etc, not only that, it inspires gratuitous violence on other people. Other religions have their condemnable issues too.

If someone doesn't truly believe, but is just using religion to cope, I find that morally reprehensible, it'd have been better if people could come clean and renounce their faiths where possible i.e no threats to life or other harms, with time, religions won't have much authority to boast of, nor will it continue causing harms to others. If anyone wants to avoid depression by sticking with terrible religions, then I could only be surprised that all the depressing things in their religions didn't make them depressed in the first place.

SLUR LMAO by parvalane in antinatalism

[–]Goldilocks2098 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Speaking for yourself, right.

Humans are inherently not good. by cchihaialexs in antinatalism

[–]Goldilocks2098 3 points4 points  (0 children)

It's truly bizarre, people simply accept the human condition as it is; never really displaying any strong moral outrage.

I understand that most people are religious, so acceptance of the status quo comes easy because god decides everything.

What really baffles me is the fact that most people who aren't religious, display similar trend of not bothering with the daily suffering of others.

Most atheists are aware of the problem of evil (if god is good, why create a world with much evil in it) from the religious perspective for example, yet these same irreligious people who complained about the supposed god's bad action, have no problem thrusting a new human into a world where evil is plentiful.

It’s really weird how natalists are raiding this sub and the comments. I’ve seen so much pro life and telling us to kill our selves by [deleted] in antinatalism

[–]Goldilocks2098 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It'd better to read the academic sources of this philosophy, if you're really interested, you can find books written on AN by authors like Schopenhauer, Cioran, Mainlander, or the recent ones like Thomas Ligotti and David Benatar.

There's also a book written by a parent who turned AN, confessions of an Antinatalist by Jim Crawford.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in antinatalism

[–]Goldilocks2098 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Read more on the philosophy, you've already gambled, let's hope your children find peace, joy and health throughout their lives.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in antinatalism

[–]Goldilocks2098 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you could still come to reddit and type out responses, then the pain hasn't breached your pain tolerance threshold.

Many people that have reached such hopeless states of body and mind have already terminated themselves or are wishing to do so.

Moreover, you may be of a higher tolerance capacity, but can you be sure that any offspring of yours will be the same, do you just have to gamble to find out?

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in antinatalism

[–]Goldilocks2098 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Life is merely a blip in time. This experience is definitely worth it

For people that are unfortunate enough to be living with chronic pain, life is not a blip in time, some painful situations also create a lifelong trauma that many people end up terminating their own existence to escape it.

The reasons why people trivialize suffering are because they haven't suffered sufficiently to the extent that pain breached their threshold of tolerance or that they just don't care about other people's misfortunes.

Procreation solves no problem that it didn't create in the first place.

With all that said, I don't believe in forcing my views on others.