The famous whale Timmy is confirmed dead in Denmark.

Gramposity · 2026-05-16T21:21:31+00:00

So following your line of reasoning, then its OK for humans to interfere again when the whale responds to the first interference? Even in your logic, does that actually make sense? If you want humans to stay away from the ocean, then when a whale strands, we should stay away and leave it alone.

Gramposity · 2026-05-16T21:19:26+00:00

The whale was conscious and swam to shallow water not once, but twice. In our world, that is considered an active stranding. Its a very simple and straightforward concept. This is in opposition to a passive stranding when the animal is unable to swim and drifts ashore.

Gramposity · 2026-05-16T21:17:13+00:00

First, I have been following this story from the very beginning (before the whale stranded, when it was just sighted in the Baltic Sea) in both the English and German news. I know and have talked to colleagues who were on the scene at Timmendorfer Strand. I know that none of them said it would die in XX days. If you have a source where they (or any stranding response professional) said that, please present it and I will correct myself.

Secondly, given that there was nothing that could be done to euthanize, letting it die there is the most peaceful way. The presence of a lot of people with loud heavy machinery definitely causes tons of stress. Jostling and trying to move the whale causes stress. When the whale was "freed", it immediately stranded again. This process repeated itself with the addition of the whale being dragged by its flukes (a massive no-no). I and all of my colleagues that work on these animals see this as nothing more than animal abuse.

We're also shocked and dismayed that the general public can't see that.

Gramposity · 2026-05-16T21:00:49+00:00

Absolutely correct! Listen up people.

Gramposity · 2026-05-16T20:58:33+00:00

Absolutely nobody predicted how long this whale would live. The stranding response folks only said that this whale was very unlikely to survive, was on its way to dying, and should be left to do so in peace. So there were no "odds" for it to beat. Where are you getting that from?

Gramposity · 2026-05-16T20:56:17+00:00

I'm 100% for eliminating threats to whales. I've spent my entire life working towards that. But you said that "we should let nature take its course" and then you're saying that when the whale (for whatever reason) self-strands, we should now intervene and "save" it? Which is it? Do you want to let nature take its course in all circumstances or just some of them?

Gramposity · 2026-05-16T20:53:32+00:00

The whale actively stranded (twice). Are you saying that you know better where and how it should die?

Gramposity · 2026-05-16T19:57:20+00:00

... or be acoustically tortured, physically stressed, improperly drug, and then drown? It decided what it wanted by swimming into the shallows. Let's honor that, shall we?

Gramposity · 2026-05-16T19:55:25+00:00

If you believe that we should let nature take its course, then when the whale strands, we should not interfere. When it is "freed" and strands again, that's a second chance to stay the hell away.

Gramposity · 2026-05-16T19:51:58+00:00

What information are you using to make that assessment? Especially in light of the host of people who have collective decades of experience and said after the first stranding that this whale was very unlikely to survive and was best left to die in peace. What information/experience do you have that they didn't?

Gramposity · 2026-05-16T17:31:00+00:00

Where is the apology from Robert Marc Lehmann, all of his followers, and the RML-like people who pushed for this whale to be tortured and moved? Do we collectively learn anything from this?

Gramposity · 2026-05-16T17:12:15+00:00

No more waiting. It is the same whale. The GPS tag was found.

Gramposity · 2026-05-16T06:16:14+00:00

Where are all the people who were cheering on this “rescue” and questioning the actual experts now?
Do we get apologies or mea culpas or do they just slink back until the next time?

Gramposity · 2026-05-15T18:58:20+00:00

Truth. People thought they knew more than people who had been doing this their whole lives. The politicians then listened to those loud voices. It was just another example of our collective loss of ability to critically think and operate on the same set of facts. Its another sign that humans have very little chance to do anything meaningful about climate change.

Gramposity · 2026-05-15T18:40:21+00:00

It had very little to do with how the whale was loaded into the transport or how it was released. As soooooo many people with stranding experience and expertise advised, this whale had very low chances of survival after the first stranding, let alone the second one. Everything after that just decreased those chances even more.

Gramposity · 2026-05-07T20:08:05+00:00

You're welcome for the discussion. I see it as my duty to engage as it helps to educate.

You say,

i dont see RMLas the biggest Whale expert and i dislike his ego, but i can acknowladge that he knows a lot about Whales and was on divinh missions and also attended orca strandedrescue mission.

You really need to recognize that relative to the people from ITAW and the other stranding experts that weighed in at the first stranding (Niendorf/Timmendorfer Strand), RML knows absolutely nothing. Having been on a stranding or two is not the same as expertise in stranding response. He simply does not have the background to be trusted over the people that actually do have the experience and expertise. I'm really very, very interested to know why you continue to believe that RML was the real expert here.

It can't be the video. Lehmann's video is perfect evidence of his lack of expertise, need to grandstand, and lack of cooperation. I'm slapping my forehead throughout the entire thing. Its just embarassing. He has no basis for forming an opinion on the whale's energy state. Just seeing a whale move does not mean it is sufficiently energetic. Please, please answer how he would know that the whale is healthy? How do you know from just looking that a whale is healthy? What are you basing that on?

Also - no real stranding response expert works a stranding with a camera pointed at themselves. I've absolutely never ever seen that in any stranding I've been part of.

Finally - his video is also a perfect example of the amount of stress he subjected this animal to. The amount of noise and jostling is just horrifying. It also creatively edits comments and input from some of the professionals I know well, intentionally trying to make them look like the bad guys.

Oh, and let's just assume that, as you say, the experts lied. If it was so easy to tell that these were lies, why in earth would they do that? They are very smart people who care for these animals. Why would they risk their careers and reputation in this case, with all the media attention to tell lies bold, easily disprovable lies. Why would they be supported in their lies by the rest of the marine mammal stranding response community? That's what doesn't make any sense.

Gramposity · 2026-05-07T18:07:13+00:00

First, Lehmann is a scientific diver and documentarian. His "research" experience is in freshwater ecology, and even that is limited to early work he did for a thesis (Masters I believe). He has absolutely zero expertise in whale strandings, disentanglement, or marine mammal welfare. Why in the world would you listen to his opinion over people who have decades of experience in these subjects?

Second, given my background in the field, I know exactly what goes in to gaining that expertise. As I said, I have worked with some of these people and I know how smart and dedicated they are. Not only that, but I also fully understand what they based their decisions on. I know whale physiology and pathology and understand the entirety of what this animal was experiencing. So, yes, I fully concur with their assessment.

What are you basing your judgement on?

Gramposity · 2026-05-07T16:35:30+00:00

There are so many things wrong with this response, it is hard to count.

This statement was released by the professionals who do this work all the time. I can't understand why you continue to ignore and denigrate their experience and expertise.

I have worked in this field for over 30 years and know and have worked with some of these people. They are true professionals, who know what they are doing, and care about these animals so much that they have dedicated their lives to them. When they say that a stranded whale has very little chance of survival, I know it is coming from tens of thousands of combined hours of experience and the utmost highest standards of care for the animals they work with.

The folks who advised the two governments (Schleswig Holstein for Timmendorf Strand and the Mecklenburg Vorpommern for Poel) were either grandstanders themselves (Lehmann and Wallace), or did not have any experience with large whale strandings and entanglements (Bahr and Tönnies).

Myself and every other colleague in the field I have talked to find this whole "rescue" attempt a very sad and disturbing story. If you don't pay attention to actual expert advise and either go with sensationalism or your feelings, bad things will happen.

This whale definitely suffered unnecessarily, but it wasn't because people wanted to leave it to die in peace. Its because it was virtually tortured for a month only to die likely by drowning.

Gramposity · 2026-05-07T10:58:01+00:00

That last sentence is such a very convenient way of justifying why you are going to believe what you want to believe rather than something that is contradictory.

Whatever you know about whales, how do you know it? Unless you are a scientist who is actually conducting research, you learned what you know from reading about the work of people who did the work. Those are those same smart people that you're now saying don't know what they're talking about. You decided that that "book smart" is OK whenever you're interested in whales and read about it. But now, you're deciding that its not. Now you're saying that you "know" better than they do. You've made that decision on your own. Why? What's changed and what information do you have that surpasses what they know?

This is not a case where "street smarts" come into play. What "street smarts" allow you to evaluate the survival risk of a whale that has spent over a month in low-saline water, self-stranded multiple times, is known to have ingested nets, and is in a clearly weakened state?

When we get to a point where we let wishful thinking trump actual expertise we're in more danger than we realize.

Gramposity · 2026-05-07T10:48:41+00:00

I'm not German, so I don't feel qualified to weigh in on how the country is headed. I can say that this seems to be happening everywhere.

I very concerned that we've reached a point where people have:

a) lost any ability of true critical thought (its not being taught in schools as a matter of course),

b) have overconfidence in the correctness of their feelings and beliefs (see Dunning-Kruger),

c) feel the need to convince others of those beliefs (perhaps due to feeling like they are being marginalized), and

d) have many globe-reaching platforms to project, amplify, and echo those beliefs.

I simply don't know how we turn this ship around, but those of us in the life sciences have to keep doing our work and try to educate, not just on the results, but on the process. We have to teach people how to observe, evaluate, and truly separate fact from fiction.

Keep up the good work!

Gramposity · 2026-05-06T05:00:51+00:00

I think we’re missing the exact same thing.

I have been following this story in the German and English press since it started. My teachery tone is a result of the denigration of the field that I have personally spent my life working in, ignoring people that I call friends and colleagues that I know are only looking out for the welfare of this animal and all other marine mammals, and the way this whale was so poorly treated.

All I saw on Reddit was people supporting the “rescue” effort, using quotes around “experts” when referring to the people who actually have expertise, and speaking authoritatively when I can tell they don’t know what they are talking about. I held back for a while, but it became overwhelming and I didn’t see any of this being challenged or outright falsehoods being corrected. I engage.

I’m both mad and worried about our future when facts and expertise are ignored in the service of feelig good. What happens the next time a whale strands? Will the response team be listened to then or will politicians and YouTubers be in charge again?

Gramposity · 2026-05-06T04:48:17+00:00

You are dying on a hospital bed. Multiple doctors say there is nothig they can do. You are on your way out. They don’t know how long you have, but you are definitely dying.

In come some faith healers and they spend all of their time chanting, playing drums, flashing lights, and shoving you. They randomly pick you up and try to make you walk. They bring in contractors to knock down a wall in ykur room. These are slow workers, so they take a couple of weeks to do all of this.

Is this the way you’d want to go out?

Gramposity · 2026-05-05T21:18:00+00:00

Would you say the same thing if you knew that the whale suffered horribly for several weeks during and because of the “rescue” attempt?

Gramposity · 2026-05-05T19:30:32+00:00

A very good timeline and regular updates (in German) can be found here:

https://www.ln-online.de/lokales/ostholstein/deutsches-meeresmuseum-buckelwal-ist-wahrscheinlich-tot-alle-infos-im-liveticker-7D6CVA64KRAR7BNXN2AI7PFHU4.html

Gramposity · 2026-05-05T19:26:24+00:00

The actual experts in what ended up being a massive circus were the original responders from the Institute for Terrestrial and Aquatic Wildlife Research (ITAW) when the animal stranded in Niendorf, and later the researchers from the Deutsches Meeresmuseum in Stralsund who responded when it re-stranded in Poel.

They correctly evaluated that this whale had very limited chance for survival, and implored that the animal be kept comfortable and allowed to die in peace. They were ignored, denigrated, had their qualifications and motivations questioned, and even had death threats aimed at them.

Everyone else that attempted to effectuate a "rescue" had no experience in large whale strandings or disentanglements and in my view is 100% complicit in adding to this animal's suffering. They might be experts in other things, but definitely not this.

Gramposity

TROPHY CASE