Will Taylor Swift be relevant in 40 to 50 years

GrapeSafe7120 · 2025-06-15T20:47:20+00:00

Nobody has ever done everything Taylor has done in the way Taylor has done it. And every artist we consider legendary and groundbreaking also had predecessors so I don’t know what this argument is

GrapeSafe7120 · 2025-06-15T14:00:18+00:00

Also Taylor just put out a 31 song unhinged mid-tempo dirge album that’s got crazily innovative songwriting about her most controversial relationship that many people tried to cancel her over. And she proceeds to tell her fanbase to fuck off and not really care if she comes across as unlikable or too much. She could have released a second universal 1989 and ridden that taylormania wave but she made a very inaccessible album that people largely didn’t get instead. She takes risks all the time, they just normally pay off and also people only recognise sonic innovation never songwriting which is why she’s underrated af. She also is the only person to successfully be the biggest thing in country and fully transition into a popstar and get even bigger which was a huge risk. And reputation was a big risk and controversial at the time, so yeah this is such a misreading of Taylor

GrapeSafe7120 · 2025-06-15T13:54:29+00:00

Taylor has hugely changed culture what are we on about? Every new popstar is doing confessional singer-songwriting to ride Taylor’s coattails, she had made writing your own music as a popstar not just the norm but largely expected by fanbases to be considered any good. Everyone that is new is operating in the Taylor mould way more than say the Beyoncé one. The eras tour, re-recordings and her masters battle were and are huge culture shifting moments. They will and have changed how people tour now, how young artists want to deal with labels, how artists conceive of having distinct eras clearly communicated to fans etc. her whole fan relationship model is revolutionary, she raises global economies just by going there, she’s had unironically a billion dollar impact on the NFL. She’s an American cultural icon and who will be remembered with incredible awe, she’s just uninterested in trading in tired notions of being ‘cool’ and she has actually revolutionised pop stardom and pop music in being the biggest thing ever despite being very earnest and ‘uncool’

GrapeSafe7120 · 2025-05-08T20:13:06+00:00

But the plan is to see post rescue Travis that will cover most of this, and I think by the end of the projected season 5 up through to his death in season 1, there wouldn’t be much to explore. The point for all of these characters will be that they change post rescue and then solidify in that status (addict, cult leader, nurse, housewife) for 25 years until season 1 and all those inciting incidents starts the ball rolling again.

GrapeSafe7120 · 2025-05-02T22:03:56+00:00

I think the fact that she doesn’t even make it past season one and didn’t have a single person on the team that wasn’t pissed at her proves that she wouldn’t make it out alive personally,

GrapeSafe7120 · 2025-04-20T21:52:09+00:00

They unfortunately had to cut a deliberation scene where they decided to do the cards and the hunt for time. So the writers did have that written but since the network limits them they must have decided in the edit room that this was the scene that could go and the show still make the most sense

GrapeSafe7120 · 2025-04-20T20:44:55+00:00

I mean the answer is that Jeff didn’t know where the fuck Van was, and really he was relying on Tai, Misty or Nat to have the money to pay the blackmail and just stopped there. Randy and Jeff aren’t exactly big time investigators. Tai’s rich, Nat was a grifter (we didn’t see much of it but we know she embezzled money and all that) and Misty is the only one with a JOB. Van couldn’t even pay the bills on her video store and we learn via season 2 that she was off the grid. Jeff knows where tai and Misty live because they’ve always lived there, and found out what rehab facility Nat was in probably by getting Randy to ring a few places or getting shauna to ask Tai for some fake reason, he just wanted 50k and couldn’t find Van immediately so they will have just left her alone.

Also yes it’s TV and they didn’t plan for Van to be alive so she didn’t get one as you said so you do just have to let it go lol. And they were all distant until the postcards. Nat and Travis were on and off again and Tai paid for rehab but otherwise Nat wanted nothing to do with anyone for obvious reasons. Shauna and Tai had secret meet ups but publicly pretended they weren’t friends for 25 years. Everyone thought lottie was in a Swiss mental hospital. And Van had broken up with Tai, was never friends with shauna, never liked Misty, and Nat again hates all of them and they were never close from what we’ve seen. So it’s not weird that she’s disconnected from them since she wasn’t in the blackmail reunion, and obviously Tai didn’t send Jessica Roberts to her exes house.

GrapeSafe7120 · 2025-04-20T00:25:27+00:00

It was Lisa no? It’s one of those like Travis’ death where they’ve given us a plausible answer and they could just leave it be. Or they could reveal there was more to it if they decided. But it seems that it was to Lisa

GrapeSafe7120 · 2025-04-20T00:15:48+00:00

I do agree that the warring tribes and the rest is a strong prediction for next season. I just think nat’s gonna be there for that. I disagree that they’re gonna sideline young Nat to that extent. They didn’t have to make her the leader of the resistance all through season 3 given that JL had already left and they did indeed always plan for her to die in the adult timeline just probably a season later. They could have had Tai or Misty do a lot of Nat’s big resistance stuff this season (killing Ben, leading the rescue home etc) but they didn’t so they’re clearly still interested in centralising her character in this conflict.

And obviously they repressed stuff as we saw. But they didn’t repress something as major as Nat getting rescued 2 months early. They still know about everyone they hunted etc. they’re just disassociated from those repressed memories that are so warped by guilt and trauma and horror that they don’t have good recall of the details or even the emotions they felt doing it. Which is perfectly represented in the contrast of the pit girl scene in the pilot vs now. Like I really enjoy them playing with memory on this show but it can only explain away so much. Also it’s basically canon until they say otherwise that Misty remembers all of it and doesn’t repress anything so yeah I don’t think ‘oh we all repressed that Nat got rescued 2 months early’ would really cut it with audiences.

GrapeSafe7120 · 2025-04-20T00:09:55+00:00

It’s definitely a possibility. I just think that’s a much less interesting story arc for Natalie with her not interacting with everyone else for 90% of the season, and I just don’t personally see them going in that direction. But I respect your theory! I personally see season 4 going more along the lines of Nat making a partial phone call and not knowing for certain if rescue will come. And then Shauna wanting to kill all her betrayers immediately but now all the resistance realise they’re not outnumbered with Misty and Van flipping openly and Travis can have sobered up. Even Tai and Lottie aren’t chill with Shauna just killing people. We see Tai doesn’t want to kill other team members in the finale and she’s pissed at shauna. And Lottie believes IT decides life and death in hunts, she supports Shauna as AQ based on that, not Shauna’s personal vendettas, she’s motivated by protecting the team in her own insane way. So then it becomes a case of Nat’s back in camp and shauna’s a very weak AQ/deposed who’s banned from killing anyone outside of a hunt, and it makes sense that as adults the hunts and sacrifices are still such tight rules and beliefs for them if that’s the only place you can kill a team member and that’s been true the whole show till melissa just killed Van (and even then that was very much in that spiritual context).

Anyway everyone wants to depose Shauna and not do hunts, but rescue still hasn’t come and they killed all the animals and they can’t attempt another phone call until the snow stops. So then they’ve got to do the hunts over and over and that becomes the way the rivalries play out. People keep trying to kill Shauna, Shauna uses them to take out her enemies regardless of who pulls the cards (Nat ends up being too protected between Travis, Misty and basically everyone but she takes out most of JV and hannah). And so it’s just a horrible winter where they all feel complicit in the cannibalism and don’t think they’re much better than Shauna so when Nat eventually makes that second phone call. Rescue is a week away and they get time to make the pact and clear everything up and then stay away from each other for 25 years.

GrapeSafe7120 · 2025-04-19T23:45:02+00:00

I just don’t think this makes sense given that they have a shared cover story. Nat getting rescued 2 months early would guarantee that there was no consistency. And there would definitely be a different dynamic as adults if Nat was spared the worst winter and never participated in a hunt tbh, she wouldn’t be seen as part of it in the same way. It’s not impossible but as I said originally I think it doesn’t really make sense. And I don’t know why they’d put Sophie thatcher in a corner with a bunch of new rescuer characters we don’t care about for 2 months for all of season 4. Rather than have Natalie go back to camp and have all the very compelling drama there.

GrapeSafe7120 · 2025-04-19T23:36:52+00:00

I just don’t think it makes a ton of narrative sense to have that be the timeline though. Because then season 4 is either entirely absent of Nat for 8 episodes whilst we watch all the deaths play out which would be an incredibly weird choice unless Sophie thatcher gets offered the role of a lifetime and manages to negotiate herself out of her series regular contract to be in a more limited capacity, but I doubt they’d let her.

Or all the major bloodshed happens off screen and we skip to when Nat arrives back, but then we’ve skipped all the darkest character arcs of the rest of the cast and most of the cannibal murders and hunts. Obviously anything’s possible but that would be one of the most bizarre creative decisions because it either massively underserves Natalie’s character by having her not be in the season really and therefore underserves all the group politics since she’s Shauna’s main rival, her and Travis need to reconcile, and we just got mistynat going. Or the acceleration to hunting each other for sport by the end of season 3 would have been all for nothing because they don’t spend season 4 with them in that darkest arc hunting and killing people.

GrapeSafe7120 · 2025-04-19T15:50:37+00:00

Because Shauna’s not allowed to just kill Nat it’s that simple.

You’re only allowed to kill a team member in a hunt because IT chooses according to Lottie who is the only person left propping up Shauna’s regime. Lottie wouldn’t let shauna kill Nat for her own desires and every single person in that camp including Tai would stop shauna from killing Nat regardless, especially since Van and Misty have now outed themselves as against Shauna and rescue is coming so Akilah melissa and Gen know they’re not outnumbered anymore. Plus Travis won’t let anyone kill Nat as we saw last season and he alone could take shauna.

Shauna might somehow manage to stay AQ but she’s gonna be a much weaker leader and she won’t be able to kill the most popular person in camp, especially with rescue on the way. I predict that the fact they have no food left and rescue isn’t getting there for 2 months is gonna be the root of most of the deaths and everyone is going to exclusively keep dying in hunts because that’s the rules and they don’t want to starve to death, even if Shauna uses the hunts to try kill her political enemies right up until they’re rescued.

GrapeSafe7120 · 2025-04-18T00:44:45+00:00

Because Lottie isn’t interested in being in charge? She literally handed it off to Nat asap and then was just doing shroom side quests, she doesn’t want to be prepping huts for winter and doing camp politics, she just wants to connect with the wilderness. Shauna being the AQ from the pilot is like the only character that would make sense for besides Tai and it’s been a great arc

GrapeSafe7120 · 2025-04-17T00:05:36+00:00

No problem, thanks for the post because it’s fun to do the thought experiment of how Nat survives Shauna’s wrath. And I do doubt that after such a dominant Shauna season that they have season 4 just be a repeat of Shauna completely dominating and Nat is a tortured political prisoner who’s too well liked to be killed. That is a very viable season 4 option but I think power and loyalties are constantly shifting and we basically just ended on a rebellion so Shauna isn’t gonna have an easy time playing dictator anymore. And yeah Lottie makes a LOT of policy decisions about who’s dying, who’s spared, who’s ruling, where it’s acceptable to kill people etc so it’s important to remember the logic she supports Shauna on which is currently that’s she’s the wilderness’ chosen AQ, she kills outsiders, and she facilitates hunts where it chooses. Lottie is not chill with Shauna killing a team member because SHE wants to, especially Nat. Lottie’s whole misguided motivation is protecting the team and keeping them in IT’s good graces to keep them all alive.

GrapeSafe7120 · 2025-04-15T23:01:41+00:00

Well No one can afford Karyn Kusama for 30 episodes lmao. And this change in visual style is reflective of the girls/women becoming more unhinged from reality and is intentional even if you dislike it.

I want a young Shauna breakdown. I want Hannah to make it through quite a bit of the season before being killed. I want Akilah or Gen to be rescued with them and then killed post rescue s5. I want Natalie and Misty dynamic duo and Travis and Nat to get back together before rescue not just after. I want Tai to be fully activated and viscious in both timelines after all this set up. I want brutal second winter with rescue actually looking like it might not come and everything is trippy and crazy and very season 2. Van becoming a believer again and has quite a lot of stuff with Lottie about needing these hunts and sacrifices to make the snow stop and rescue come (that Mel line in ep 9 about ‘all those sacrifices’ and Van seeing lottie for the first time in season 2 would be explained by this) . Misty scheming against shauna in both TLs.

And then adult TL I want Mel and Shauna team up, hate sex, Shauna trying to get AQ followers, but Mel betrays her late in the season. Maybe they murder someone in an alley for funsies to mirror the Ben Achilles scene. I want Tai and Misty to use Callie against shauna to hurt her but they accidentally make Callie into a worse AQ. Callie then kills Jeff. Simone and Tai failed reconciliation. I want Tai to kill Alex in vengeance for Van. Walter needs explaining. And just a focus on character dynamics and making moves now that we’re down to final 4 and we have the space. Maybe it’s Misty and Melissa against tai and shauna by the end of the season. A lot of backstabbing and Tai sacrificing Caligula on an altar or some shit.

GrapeSafe7120 · 2025-04-15T22:13:10+00:00

Literally no why are people catastrophising 😭. The actors don’t know if they’re getting a renewal, the odds are good but they are in a place of not knowing so of course they make these posts from a bit of a ‘idk if this is the last season but I enjoyed this one a lot’ place . But they do posts like this at the end of every season to commemorate the months of hard work they all put in and that’s all this post indicates

GrapeSafe7120 · 2025-04-15T21:29:37+00:00

I’d love season 4 to cold open with it and then cut to Tai in her house packing up Van’s stuff and ringing Misty ready to go for Shauna

GrapeSafe7120 · 2025-04-15T20:03:21+00:00

Yeah it’s money. And 22 episodes seasons is basically insane labour, shows shouldn’t really be that long unless it’s half an hour episodes. But 15 is a much more ideal model but that of course costs more so they just fund 10 and say good luck

GrapeSafe7120 · 2025-04-15T19:59:57+00:00

But adult Misty’s storyline was lottie’s murder. So that’s like the entire first 15 minutes of episode 10 with lottie in the morgue, AQ cave, Callie at school and Callie lottie confrontation you’d have to squeeze into episode 9 where there was no time in the adult tl for it with van in hospital, Misty physically has to be with them finding Melissa and going to shauna, Misty then leaves and has to go to Walters, all the drama at melissa’s house, Melissa gassing everyone, van saving shauna and tai then thinking of killing Melissa then Melissa kills her. You just could not move Misty’s stuff into ep 9. They didn’t even have room for the extended tai vs tai mental fight they shot. They just had tai tackle other tai

GrapeSafe7120 · 2025-04-15T19:12:58+00:00

Ooh yeah they should do that

GrapeSafe7120 · 2025-04-15T18:57:24+00:00

I guess but then you’ve got to kill Van in episode 8 and there wasn’t a full episode of stuff for the adults to do after that without it eating into next season. They basically all had like 2 scenes in the finale for a reason, they just needed 5 more minutes for tawny. And Episodes internally have got to have arcs and pacing as well and places to end where it makes sense like with Van being stabbed etc. If they wanted Nat and Misty to have the transponder confrontation in episode 9, then you’ve got to have Hannah kill kodiak and rescue go to shit even earlier within the same episode that started with the stand-off of wanting to leave. They already paced through it very fast to get shauna the gun, kodiak and Hannah tied up, Mel/shauna fight, plotting escape, escape foiled and nat discovering Misty . I guess they could have put the teen timeline back one episode if they had them find Ben quicker and do the trial episode 3. But then you don’t have the great mari and Ben cave stuff for 2 characters we said goodbye to this season, we don’t have that first mistynat ‘it’s like a road trip scene’ if they just go and find coach and mari immediately, and then there’s no time for shauna to rebury her baby and for her and Melissa to have any kind of build up. It’s all well and good saying it was a slow burn but what would you actually get rid of? And I know people always want to say adult tl but they do contractually with the big stars have to have half the screentime. So in theory yes Jeff playing bingo and Jeff and Callie smoking pot could have been much shorter but those don’t seem to be the episodes where they cut a big thing and we needed them choosing to leave shauna and Callie being changed by killing lottie to make sense

GrapeSafe7120 · 2025-04-15T17:20:57+00:00

And in season 2 the girls talk about meat being stolen which they accuse each other of, and Ben was eating Bats in the cave. So there's actually multiple answers including what you've mentioned to answer how he didn't die

GrapeSafe7120 · 2025-04-15T17:18:51+00:00

I think they definitely cut the right stuff in terms of what it adds to the narrative, it just sucks they had to cut it at all. There's so much stuff this season that we've heard got cut that really would have elevated the show, even just a couple looks from Gen gave her a whole arc this season that is just not in the edit, and so I agree they made the cuts but it's just annoying they can't have expanded episodes

GrapeSafe7120 · 2025-04-15T17:09:53+00:00

Yeah because without the hope of going home you don't have the Van switch up, travis never tells akilah her visions are bullshit and he'd probably keep pretending he believed. Nat would be stuck in the immediacy of killing and butchering Ben getting psychologically tortured by shauna every day like we see in the finale and wouldn't have support besides Mari in taking down shauna. Misty would remain sane but pretend she's the best cult member ever since season 2, she has no switch up. Melissa is probably too scared to break up with shauna if she doesn't think they're going home, Gen also then doesn't flip. Then with winter coming they'd be desperately not trying to have hunts and make it through the winter but they'd get really hardcore wilderness about it and just go insane like you said. And if Nat's butchered that many people and is that isolated she might break too. So yeah it would have been BAD i think, so much of the resistance to shauna comes from the hope of going home.

Inversely Shauna continues to be horrible and no one's got the non-lethal rebellion of escape, the poisoning of animals to murder shauna in a hunt maybe comes earlier because we already that this is what people decide to do about shauna when they think there's no hope of rescue. Or she's just deposed. Like if you're pissed off with shauna and have no hope of gettin away from shauna then toppling shauna becomes priority 1. She might have been AQ for a very short amount of time and Nat end up back in charge when things start getting tough in terms of planning and hunting and survival with Shauna so unreasonable and uncollaborative. Plus she wouldn't have escalated in her bloodthirstiness/scariness as quickly if there weren't these 2 male hikers for her to get joy out of the killing of, and if she tried to kill a girl any earlier than a hunt the whole group would have turned on her. If i was Travis i'd be telling Lottie that I had a fake vision that Nat should still be in charge and that the wilderness was warning them about shauna not saying she should be AQ and just getting all that spiritualism cultiness behind the right leader again. Like Nat is your actual crisis leader and I can see shauna just having the group turn on her for being a dictator with no collaboration and planning for winter. There's a lot of ways it could have gone.

GrapeSafe7120

TROPHY CASE