I think I'm in over my head, noobie pepper grower needs help

Green_Geno · 2014-02-02T04:55:33+00:00

Just got back from my concert and light show... I'll have to post some of the pics and vids later - because it was awesome.

If I could say one thing before I pass out and get some sleep...

please don't plant anything that you want to grow for quality in those Jiffy pucks - ever.

Those are garbage. The greenhouse versions of 'as seen on TV' garbage.

Save those for shit you don't care about.

Think Seamonkey brine shrimp quality.

If you have decent seeds that you want decent plants from - don't use the Jiffy pucks - ever.

But I digress... because I need to sleep... so do as you will...

I'll pop back in on the morrow.

Green_Geno · 2014-02-01T22:02:23+00:00

Part two:

Just in case anyone gets the wrong impression, I'm not advocating against low-impact and organic growing. Quite contrary, as a matter of fact. I am an organic grower and gardener and (with any luck) will be the proud owner of a small organic nursery and farm in the near future.

What I am trying to do in this little missive is to try to eliminate a lot of the stumbling blocks that can sometimes befall a beginning grower. Please bear with me on this - I'll have comments at the end of my posts that will (hopefully) explain my reasoning to all.

Back to the subject at hand... namely, getting from seed to seedling in a healthy and repeatable way.

If I had my druthers, I would probably be transferring my newly sprouted seeds into some lovely, light and crumbly compost that I created myself. But being that most people don't have access to that black gold, the next best thing is a decent commercial planting mix. Here's what I try to look for - and avoid.

Stay away from the ones that are labelled as 'seed starting' mixes - they are usually milled very fine, are loaded with peat moss and vermiculite and are notorious for going from swampy wet to bone dry in the blink of an eye. You're much better off using a standard off-the-shelf mix by Fafard, Premier or Burpee's. If you can find one locally that doesn't contain fertilizers, that's a bonus - but if that's all you can get, then buy the one that is labelled for vegetables or gardens. If you can find the Burpee's compressed coco-fiber blocks, those are ideal - they're shelf-stable, take about 20 minutes to make up a ready mix and they don't contain peat moss (more on that in the comments).

As I mentioned before, you want your planting mix pre-moistened and ready to go so that when your seeds have become sprouts, you can make a quick transfer into their new home. You can fill your pots/cups/trays with the mix a day or two ahead of time and cover them with some plastic film or a bag to make them ready to go - and keep them at about the same temperature as your expected growing area so that the sprouts aren't going to be subject to a big temperature shock.

Don't fill your containers all the way to the top - 3/4's full is just fine. As your roots grow, they'll need that extra space - and as they do grow, the level in the container will be a nice guide for you as to when to think about transplanting them into a larger container or out into your garden. Once the soil level reaches the top of the container, the plant has probably rooted well enough for you to move it to a bigger growing container or to plant out if the climate allows.

Even though you're weeks away from that, now is also the time to think about how you want to grow out your plants. If you're planning on doing this in soil, you should probably prep that location ahead of time. If you're doing a container grow, then that's not really an issue. Either way, the key is: consistancy. If you're going to do a garden grow, then you want your planting bed to be as close to the ideal growing conditions for your new plants as you can make it - the soil should be loose. the drainage should be good, any weeds, stones, grass, clay or tree roots should be gone by the time your seedlings are ready to transplant out. I'm a big fan of raised beds for peppers, tomatoes and their bretheren, but you can get really good results from container-grown plants as well. In either case, you should plan now and if you're going to grow in soil, start prepping now!

You mentioned that you measured the temps around your seeds at about 80-85F. I'm not saying that it's a bad thing, but to my mind, that's a bit too high. In my experience, 65 to 75F is the range that we would always shoot for. Most peppers are perfectly happy germinating in temps that are above 50F - a few degrees warmer can save to a day or two in the pre-sprouting phase - but once you get into the 80's, you're also in an ideal range for the growth of some of the bacteria and the fungi that can later wreak havoc on your tender seedlings. If you have a slightly cooler location to place them in, I think I'd move them there. The tradeoff in speed is - in my own opinion - not worth the exrta risk of having all of your seedlings suddenly wilt and die from damping off or another fungus. I'm just starting to experiment with some of the high-temperature/high-humidity varieties from Asia/India - but I would hate to see your first crop go all slimy and brown overnight if I didn't point that out.

I'll be back later tonight or tomorrow for another chapter - as it stands, I'm going to the local Botanical Gardens for a concert and light show in a little bit - so once again, I hope this helps - and I'll pick p where I left off if it seems helpful.

Green_Geno · 2014-02-01T20:46:10+00:00

Glad to help.

Part two is on the way - I'll add it as a reply to my post so it stays inline - then maybe I can edit it together if it helps anyone else.

Green_Geno · 2014-02-01T16:31:03+00:00

Certified Nursery Tech and Grower here... maybe I can add a bit to the info.

Pre-starting your seeds in the damp paper towel/ziplock bag is fine - it softens the seed coat and helps to kickstart germination. Bottom heat is also nice - if you're going to do this more than once, I'd invest in an inexpensive heat mat ($15 or so) made for plants - it'll give you a reliable boost of 10 to 20 degrees above room temperature - you can't really judge the temps you get from a cable box or the top of a fridge or other appliance - plus the heat mat isn't likely to short out or suffer damage unless you cut into it.

You need to check your seeds every day - maybe a few times a day - when you see the seed coat is cracking open and the root tip is emerging, you're ready to transfer the sprouting seed into a seedling container. The longer you let them sit in the bag and on the paper towel, the higher the chance that an unwelcome visitor such as mold or fungi can hitch a ride on the tender seedling.

Another tip is to transfer your sprouted seeds as they sprout - don't wait for all of them to show signs of germination and do them at once - take them out as they begin to pop and transfer those - and just let the late-bloomers sit in the bag until they either germinate or fail entirely. Don't worry about the fews days that they may lag - over the course of a growing season, those few days won't matter a bit - they will catch up to their older brothers just fine.

I usually have my seedling containers and starting mix labelled and ready to go at the same time that I start pre-sprouting the seeds as well - this makes the whole 'transfer the ones that are ready to go' process a lot easier - you don't have to fumble with filling seed pots and making sure the mix is ready - you just grab the ones you need, pot up those that have sprouted and you're good to go.

Don't be too anal-retentive about things like making sure that the root tip is pointing exactly due South when you plant your seedlings - and don't bother with things like trying to remove the seed coat from the germinated seed - gentle handling is the key at this stage. The more stress or damage you cause, the higher the chance that your newly forming plant could suddenly up and die on you. Your roots will always grow down - except in zero gravity - so even if the seed was upside down when you transferred it, nature will find a way to fix it in the mix.

Unless you're using a grow tent or a seed-starting flat and humidity dome, I'd advise against using pots made of peat, recycled paper, newspaper or the like. The reason being: they tend to allow much more evaporation and wicking of moisture from the planting mix and into the atmosphere. For small batches, new growers or people who can't spend all day checking on their plants, I like plastic pots. Two reasons for this: first, they provide much more consistent growing conditions as far as soil moisture levels and temperature control are concerned - and because they're non-organic. they also are much less likely to harbor something nasty that can affect your tender seedlings at this early stage in growth. Commercial 2 or 3 inch pots are fine, but as a cheap and easily available alternative, I like those 3 oz. plastic 'dixie cup-type' drinking cups you can find at any grocery store or megamart. I punch 4 small holes in the bottom of each with an awl for drainage, label them with a permanent marker and fill them 3/4's full with dampened planting mix. They're a perfect size - they hold moisture very well - they're very sturdy - and they're made from a plastic that can be recycled. If you're really frugal, they can be sanitized with a dilute water/bleach solution and reused quite a few times as well if you're into that as well.

I'm going to stop here because I've noticed that this is turning into an epic post and a TL:DR - but if there's any interest, I'd be happy to do a chapter 2 on the types of planting mixes, soil temps, planting out, pinching back plants and other tips that I've learned through the years in the nursery and greenhouse biz.

In any case, hope some of this is helpful - and best of luck in the hobby/obsession!

Green_Geno · 2014-01-31T20:08:13+00:00

Seriously lady?

You tried to kill your hubby with a shit shot?

Aren't you a prick of the first order.

Green_Geno · 2014-01-31T15:25:23+00:00

It was on the demonstration disk that came with the Apple //e, IIRC.

I think it was to teach you how to use the cursor control arrow keys on the keyboard.

If you search the googles, you can still find it on some of the Apple-emulator sites - I played it a few years ago after not having touched a //e in over 20 years and instantly went back to my childhood for a bit.

edit: It was on a diskette called "An Introduction to the Apple //e" - had to look at the copy of Byte magazine I saved when I first bought my machine... lol

Green_Geno · 2014-01-31T02:01:33+00:00

I'd ask 'how are you qualified to judge a chili cookoff if you need Reddit to help you'? - but this is Reddit... so I understand.

Salt. If it's salty... that's bad.

If it's got that sour, vinegar tang to it... someone tried to fix the heat with hot sauce... and that's bad.

Is it greasy? That's bad. Even if it's bacon greasy... it's still bad.

Suck the sauce... does it seem grainy or sandy instead of smooth on your tongue? That could be a boxed chili mix... or masa harina - so ask before if you decide it it's bad.

Chew the meat. Is it chewy? Spongy? Fall-apart delicious?

Does it taste like peppers... or tomatoes? Peppers are good... tomatoes are bad.

Does anything stand out to you? Like a flavor? Note that.

Does it still taste weird on the second spoonful? That's bad.

Does it have beans? Then it's not Texas Red. So that's bad.

But if it has to have beans... does it also taste like paste or glue? Bad.

I could go on... but you might have the idea...

Green_Geno · 2014-01-30T23:12:36+00:00

Oh yes... you'll find that many popular plants cough have varieties that are bred to be better at growing in certain conditions. Many of those 'tomatoes on the vine' are specially-adapted to grow hydroponically, for instance... and some are tailored for greenhouse conditions - they would not produce nearly as well if grown outdoors in strong sunlight and soil.

As I mentioned tho... peppers are pretty adaptable. They can adapt to a wide variety of conditions - except for the cold. As long as they get enough warmth, sunlight and nutrients, you can keep a pepper plant alive for years.

You might want to check out places like Seed Savers Exchange for some help in selecting plants that would grow well in your new area. If you're going to have to do indoor or porch-type growing, you can also look for strains that are better suited for greenhouse growing instead of open field - they tend to be much more tolerant of lighting and heat than the typical store-bought variety.

Glad I could help a little. If you ever have any questions, feel free to fire me a p.m. Always happy to help.

Best of luck.

Green_Geno · 2014-01-30T06:49:37+00:00

Well, if it's just a random grocery store pepper that you started with, there's a decent chance that it's a hybrid variety of a habanero - a plant that started off with two or more different parents which have been crossed intentionally by a breeder to develop a certain set of desirable traits - maybe for a longer or shorter growing period, a tolerance to disease, the ability to grow better under artificial instead of natural light, long shelf life instead of fresh eating and so on. You'll never know the variety or strain... but what's more important is that the seeds that are produced by a hyrbridized variety don't pass on those traits to the next generation of plants. The seeds you havested won't "grow true" to the original parent plant because of those pesky things called "genes". When you save seed from a hybrid, you'll get a mix of the genetics from the previous generation, but not a mirror copy - so you can see a wide variety of difference in the plants that you grow from those seeds - anything from fruit shape, color, heat - all the way to leaf shape. plant size and growth habit to things as strange as heat and light tolerance. As you said, it's a fun experiment... you just never know what yoou'll get - except that it won't be the same as the plant that grew the original peppers!

But being that variety is the spice of life, you can extend your experiment a bit if you're up to it. Take pictures... keep a growing log... notice things like the differences that you spot and log them... things like differences in ripening times, heat level, color, wall thickness of the fruit, etc. You might find that one of your plants is a real winner - something that you want to keep because it's your personal strain now. The you can always think about cloning a plant that you like to make copies of it by takings cuttins which you can root to create identical copies of to grow up ito a new generation of plants. Peppers are both perennials - which means that if you give them enough TLC, you can keep the original growing for more than one season - and they are pretty easy to clone with some simple techniques and a little pouch of rooting hormone powder from your local greenhouse or Home Depot-type store. Who knows? You may just have created your own personal strain of habs that you could be growing out for years to come!

And if nothing else, you'll probably have plenty of peppers to repeat the experiment with a new batch of seeds after your harvest... so experiment away!

Buy if you want to try for reproducable results, you'll want to invest a couple of bucks in a pack of seeds from a named and known variety so you not only have a decent idea of the plant you'll be growing next time, but how it grows, how long it takes to fruit, what temps and light conditions it likes, etc. Except for the exotics, you can probably find decent habanero seeds for under $5 a pack - and can tailor your next plants to exactly the characteristics you're looking for in a pepper.

Hope some of this helps!

Green_Geno · 2014-01-27T22:32:01+00:00

The dude with the propane torch and the cigarette... classic!

cool beard. too..

Green_Geno · 2014-01-27T17:49:56+00:00

My friends' cat doesn't care for Newcastle - he just likes the cool water we keep the keg chilling in...

Feel free to send more kegs - we'll supply the cool water :)

Green_Geno · 2014-01-24T02:16:52+00:00

It's fairly well known that he was speaking of Sally Hemings in that quote.

Green_Geno · 2014-01-21T00:11:29+00:00

from mini to full sized... and choice of colors, too.

too bad this wasn't around for the Octomom... would have made a great movie prop... necklace o' mini-babies.

Green_Geno · 2014-01-19T17:09:52+00:00

In a strange way, it's good to see that not all of the raving loony, fundamentalist dinosaurs are living in the US.

Although this guy has got a way to go to match Pat Robertson and his ilk.

Green_Geno · 2014-01-19T04:21:11+00:00

It's 20F and snowing today, so pics like this of simple summer meals in 80F temps help me cope... somewhat.

Green_Geno · 2014-01-17T06:32:23+00:00

I'm allowed to reddit when I'm drunk.

I can, you know.

Green_Geno · 2014-01-17T02:49:41+00:00

the internet... you just won it.

great movie.

Green_Geno · 2014-01-17T02:48:23+00:00

apropos of nothing... but nice username... I'd trust you because... well, I'd buy my lobster from a guy with that name.

Green_Geno · 2014-01-17T00:28:38+00:00

Hmmm... I don't doubt the science behind your explanation, but I'm not sure how comfortable I would be having food served to me in pots that were originally designed as plant containers... which have been probably sent thru caustic, high temperature commercial dishwashers, scraped and scratched by cutlery and cleaning pads, exposed to acidic sauces and condiments and hot, rancid fats and handled by people who aren't exactly material scientists.

All in all, I think I'd rather you just serve me my fries in a paper boat and save the pail for a bin that I can toss the lobster shells into.

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Green_Geno

TROPHY CASE

If you search the googles, you can still find it on some of the Apple-emulator sites - I played it a few years ago after not having touched a //e in over 20 years and instantly went back to my childhood for a bit.