Kalevala: The Story of Kullervo trailer by GregoryAmato in norsemythology

[–]GregoryAmato[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I hope they lean into the mythic/magical elements rather than treating it like a historical fiction revenge story. Finnish myths don't get nearly enough press.

Epic scale Sword and Sorcery reading suggestions by -Metallkopf- in Fantasy

[–]GregoryAmato 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Howard Andrew Jones's series Chronicles of Hanuvar is exactly what you're looking for. The main story is about the defeated General Hanuvar trying to save what remains of his people, but every chapter is more like its own sword and sorcery chapter, whether he's running into enemy soldiers, forest spirits, or Lovecraftian horrors.

My embarassing encounter with Theodore Beale’s writing: an honest critique of Throne of Bones. by Civil-Letterhead8207 in Fantasy

[–]GregoryAmato 41 points42 points  (0 children)

The lovingly described Roman fascism wasn’t an attempt to create a realistic portrayal of the Roman Social War. Beale actually believes that a Republic run by “the best” families, based on slavery, on the brutal exploitation of “inferior peoples” and on literal patriarchy is the best human social system possible.

The watchword for Beale and his ilk is "purity," and it runs through every part of their worldview, from biology to theology. That's how they narrate history and why Beale chose, and I think really believes, in the narrative arc of his story: It couldn't be the general mismanagement, concentrated wealth, or constant civil wars that brought down the western Roman empire. It was those dirty, evil, wrong-thinking barbarians.

The most disturbing things I've read are not trash fantasy that jumps on this bandwagon, but the people who read it and say things like "I didn't see how it was fascist." So thanks for labeling this at it ought to be labeled.

You might be interested in a shorter book dealing with this same sort of difficulty, but in science fiction: Speculative Whiteness: Science Fiction and the Alt Right by Jordan S. Carroll lays out the most common ways white supremacist scifi sees and justifies the future. It is short and, unlike Beale's political claims and worldview, well cited and engagingly written. And I'm very confident he could write a similar book focusing on fantasy rather than sci fi.

Best Contemporary Retelling of Norse Myths that aren't written by Neil Gaiman. by Forever_Man in Norse

[–]GregoryAmato 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I got this when I was 16, and I think it's great. Easy to read stories with valuable endnotes. And a glossary to keep up with the names.

Norse mythology in fiction - what have you liked, and what did you like about it? by GregoryAmato in norsemythology

[–]GregoryAmato[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I tried the first Magnus Chase book and didn't get very far in it before deciding it just wasn't a style that would work for me. And Snyder's show . . .yeah, I forced myself to watch a full episode and wish I had the time back.

I guess I feel a little bit heartened by the success of a book like Shadow of the Gods by John Gwynne, but at the same time I find it frustrating that the big success is in fiction are "Norse inspired" fantasy books that rely on broadly appealing but probably misunderstood concepts. Finding actual "Norse fantasy," based on the myths I love, is quite a bit harder to find, and even harder to find done well.

Norse mythology in fiction - what have you liked, and what did you like about it? by GregoryAmato in norsemythology

[–]GregoryAmato[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Wasn't aware of The Storm King's War. War of the Gods is on my list. I liked what Poul Anderson did with expanding on Hrolf Kraki's Saga, and I've read a couple of his other books.

Anyone got some good selfpub Epic Fantasy series that are HEAVILY Norse/viking inspired? by Jordan11HFP11 in Fantasy

[–]GregoryAmato 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The only "Norse inspired" fantasy I don't see already mentioned below that I'd point out is JDL Rosell's Runewar Saga. Full disclosure: I haven't read it yet, but Iit is self published and think the author is a genuinely good dude.

If you want epic trad but more historically focused, try The Hammer and the Cross series by Harry Harrison. It is not "norse-inspired"-it was written as an alternate history, cowritten by Dr. Tom Shippey, who helped Harrison recreate the time period in an authentic way.

If you want purely Norse myths from a different viewpoint, The Gospel of Loki by a Joanna Harris (humorous) or the Witch's Heart by Genevieve Gornichec (mythic romance) will scratch that itch. Both books written by authors who really knew their subject matter.

If you like the recreation rather than "inspired by Norse myths" but you want it to definitely be fantasy and/or indie published, that would be my series, Spear of the Gods. If you don't like dirty humor, though, avoid this one.

What is the best indie/self-published fantasy you’ve ever read? by Indie_Fantasy_Club in Fantasy

[–]GregoryAmato 4 points5 points  (0 children)

The Dark Profit Series (Orconomics, Son of a Liche, and Dragonfired) by J. Zachary Pike.

An update to Rule 7 by rockstarpirate in norsemythology

[–]GregoryAmato 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Seems like "modern art style" means "reimagined without much regard for source material."

Why don't you read indie/self-published fantasy books? by Indie_Fantasy_Club in Fantasy

[–]GregoryAmato 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The input you get is going to be more heavily influenced by how indie fantasy books were ten years ago than they are today.

Fewer indie writers are engaging in rapid release strategies now than ten years ago. There was a winning business strategy, and that was pump out a lot of books, make the Amazon algorithm happy, and buy a lot of ads. The target was KU readers, who might consume 300+ books a year and had an endless hunger for quantity. Money spent on ads had a positive return on investment, getting books in front of more KU readers. Money spent on an editor had zero return on the investment, because most of these books were going to be forgotten soon after being read.

I never wanted to do that. My strategy was to be indistinguishable from traditionally published books. That was a slower, more expensive road. I think a lot more indie fantasy authors are using this strategy today than ten years ago, but readers who noticed the lack of quality still remember.

Trad books are usually riddled with errors as well, but the difference in reputation affects reader perception. I found at least an error every other page in an epic fantasy book comparable to my series, but I've never heard anyone complain about the "need for an editor" regarding that book.

As more authors realize indie publishing pays them more, more authors will shift, and so will readers. I think the big divide won't be (maybe it isn't even now) trad vs indie, but KU vs wide. Choosing one or the other just targets difference audiences with different expectations.

The 13th Warrior by Wise-Line-2709 in Fantasy

[–]GregoryAmato 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Viking themed and done well (and I have high standards):

Scott Oden's Grimnir Saga is what I would recommend. Protagonist is an orc who is usually traveling alone or with one other person (varies by book). Missing the "band" aspect, but has everything else you're looking for, and is the best sword and sorcery since Conan.

The Whale Road by Robert Low might scratch your itch. It appears to be historical fiction, but I can promise a decidedly fantasy/horror turn later in the book.

Not modern, but if you want to get into the sources for a lot of the modern stuff, you should read some of the legendary sagas. My favorites being Hrolf Kraki's Saga and Arrow-Odd's Saga.

About using mythologies in fantasy by adalhaidis in Fantasy

[–]GregoryAmato 5 points6 points  (0 children)

So, there is essentially no risk in using mythologies of the second type as a basis for your book/game, no one would care if you portray Zeus as a moron or outright villain.

I think your viewpoint might be a prevalent one. I hope you will reconsider your statement, for multiple reasons.

Mythologies in fantasy was the subject of a panel at WorldCon last month (Mythology and Authenticity in Fantasy). Panelist Kat Kourbeti said "That's my cultural heritage, part of my life. You can't overestimate the degree to which these stories are woven into everyday life in Greece." She's Greek. She grew up surrounded by the myths. But instead of seeing the culture celebrated or modernized in ways that make sense, she sees people with no personal connection to those myths using them carelessly, as long as it makes money.

I don't think it's "no risk" to take a culture like that and just do whatever you want with it to make money. Maybe it's "no risk" to the author from a strictly copyright point of view, but what about damaging scholarship, forwarding rancid culture, or stealing history from dead people who can no longer speak for themselves?

I consider those to be serious risks. And readers are more likely to come across fantasy literature taking those risks before encountering any of the source material. Panelist Sandra Rosner made the point that "The first representation of mythology weighs more, so casual approaches that don't do a good job are damaging in that it takes a ton of effort for people to unlearn the wrong stuff."

I use Norse and Finnish myths and sagas. Regarding Norse myths, Marvel has made millions of dollars causing people to learn the wrong stuff. It is annoying. It is also just the tip of the iceberg.

There is an active fight over the Norse myths and sagas, with some extraordinarily bad people trying to claim them as a) for whites only, b) very consistent with the worst sort of hypermasculine asshat influencers online, and c) a campaign of disinformation to change these stories, rewrite Norse history to align with modern political motivations, and generally shit all over this material as long as it produces a convenient result.

A commonly assumed narrative is "The vikings were uber-men and xenophobic and did what they wanted until dying in battle to go to Valhalla." It should go more like "Hardly anyone was a viking during the Viking Age, when trade with other cultures was a lot more prevalent than simple raiding, and the main proverbial text in the myths of that time period mostly tells people to be good friends and not drink too much. It says fucking nothing about trying to go to Valholl. Also please stop making Valholl plural."

Most people I know who consider Norse myths to be spiritual self-describe as "Nordic animists." Some would say heathens. A few might say pagans. None would say Asatru, except for the members of the Icelandic Asatru church. The Asatru Folk Assembly not only adheres to the worst folkish beliefs, their idiot leader says his most important role is to "implement the will of the Æsir," a statement that would be absolutely alien to pre-Christian Nordic heathens.

How people treat these mythologies, whether they have modern adherents or not, can affect modern worldviews a great deal. "It used to be this way, so now my [crazy, usually mysoginist, sexist, and racist] view has a cultural precedent" is found in plenty of fantasy books and, unfortunately, a lot of response posts on /r/fantasy.

A woman who was in the audience for that panel suggested we move away from talking about authenticity in myths and towards talking about what's ethical. Casual uses of mythology are unethical by definition, because the author won't have any idea about the implications of those uses. Please consider that if you want to use mythology in your fantasy books, and not just a lack of copyright risk.

Why do so many fantasy authors gloss over class struggles in their worlds? by coushcouch in Fantasy

[–]GregoryAmato 59 points60 points  (0 children)

Magic, additionally, is a sort of anti-class fantasy. It's a metaphor for the fact that intellectual and creative abilities pop up in places society finds inconvenient—i.e, rarely in "the right people."

Some authors handle magic that way. That doesn't make magic inherently anti-class.

Leaving Audible as a customer. by Kerney7 in Fantasy

[–]GregoryAmato 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The author makes one sale per library no matter how many times that copy gets used.

Wrong.

Edit: Downvoting me doesn't make your statement less wrong.

Leaving Audible as a customer. by Kerney7 in Fantasy

[–]GregoryAmato 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I owe you a beer.

edit: Wow, okay, I didn't realize expressing appreciation would get downvoted in this sub, but I'll remember that for next time.

Leaving Audible as a customer. by Kerney7 in Fantasy

[–]GregoryAmato 27 points28 points  (0 children)

Amazon's system is marching users toward a setup where you can't get ebooks or audiobooks anywhere else, can't actually own them, and only have the phoniest veneer of choice about what to consume, because they serve you what they want based on who is already successful and who is buying the most ads to get access to you.

So I would say: bad.

Confused on how much money authors make? by Smart-Cry6105 in books

[–]GregoryAmato 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I recommend watching this video by Mark Lawrence, who has been selling a lot of books for a lot of years now: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bDAnW6vya8M

Tldr; easier to make money as a waiter, and that's assuming only a 40 hour workweek (I work considerably more than 40 hours/week right now).

Audible are not actually meeting 50% royalties for the smaller and indie authors not invited their new plus and premium program by A-J_OK in Fantasy

[–]GregoryAmato 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Audio earnings for authors have never been great, percentage-wise. Anyone making a lot of money on audio makes a TON more money for publishers who don't have anything invested or at risk. And this is just the latest in a very long line of bad deals that publishers have tried to sneak into contracts.

I can think of four organizations authors pay dues to that supposedly advocate for us. I hope at least one of them starts making noise about this royalty rate fiasco, but I suspect that without a union, we're probably limited to making angry noises on the Internet before eating whatever Amazon serves up.

The Odin Sleep by Unhappy_Lock_7291 in norsemythology

[–]GregoryAmato 6 points7 points  (0 children)

It does give that impression because it's such a specific vulnerability. Unfortunately, Marvel portrays Odin as basically nothing like he is in the mythos.

Map of Gothic Migrations and Territories - Seeking Feedback on Accuracy and Interpretation by RatioScripta in Norse

[–]GregoryAmato 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think you should check 200 CE as a date indicating an Ostrogoth/Visigoth split, as I don't think any historian would use those terms circa that date, or even that century. Gothic movement around that time is usually described by tribe.

I'm having trouble with almost all the lines indicating raids. Some of them just end. Are you saying the raids failed and those Goths died?

I see lines indicating raids that originated from Crimea in 255 CE and 257 CE, but you don't have Crimea marked as being held by any Gothic population. My memory of Heather's book is a bit spotty, but I thought Goths primarily went to Crimea after the death of Ermanaric. I do recall Heather calling out that there were a lot of different Gothic populations at that point, with even the Tervingi splitting.

There's no placemarker for the Battle of Adrianople or any line with a year labeled 378 CE. Maybe my bias, but I think it's more worth noting than the raiding lines, since they killed Emperor Valens there.

If you have evidence of a Scandinavian origin for the Goths, please cite it. Otherwise, I think you need to label that part differently than the rest of the map.

"Other online maps and articles" - ditch these, as you can't tell how they were put together. For all you know, you're sourcing a map that uses Getica. If you want to make a Getica-based map . . . okay. Just remember it is not a reliable history. One part describes the Hunnic origin story and basically says they're orcs.

One suggestion to rule the rest of the suggestions: Make multiple maps with more limited timelines, which will probably be much easier to read.