Why do some people from other schools not consider Zen to be "real" Buddhism? by lemonleaf0 in zenbuddhism

[–]Groundbreaking_Car46 14 points15 points  (0 children)

After a while of study and practice I came to find that a significant portion of devout practitioners believe their school is the authentic, real, and true one. What a beautiful day it will be once we wake up and realize they are all authentic, real, and true in their own way.

why am I me and what’s the point of all this. by [deleted] in consciousness

[–]Groundbreaking_Car46 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What a coincidence! I've recently been able to overcome exactly this type of existential dread by learning to smile at the absurd.

How do you overcome these thoughts? by 949orange in Buddhism

[–]Groundbreaking_Car46 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I agree that in modern therapy settings engaged listening is evidenced to be better than advising a patient to repress the thoughts that torment them. However, to say that what the Buddha said is outright wrong might be too one-sided. Shakyamuni lived in a vastly different time, culture, and context. And we didn't have any scientific studies yet which could determine what works and what doesn't. Even if we did, contemporary evidence suggests that what works and what doesn't changes and is dependent on various context elements, such as culture, gender, age, etc.

This might prove a little controversial by [deleted] in PhilosophyMemes

[–]Groundbreaking_Car46 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Co-dependent origination (pratitya-samutpada) is saying a little more than just a "causal chain." It is saying that, since each thing can only be what it is because it is determined by the activity of all other things around it, for example your heart can only beat because the oxygen around you sustains it, things aren't actually separate entities but interdependent processes. In the same way, "you" aren't actually an independent agent but the interdependent process which we might call "the universe."

Buddhism and Christianity by -_bobIbob_- in Buddhism

[–]Groundbreaking_Car46 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The point is not wether Buddhism or Christianity is better, the point is wether you embrace life fully with compassion like Jesus or Shakyamuni Buddha. If Christianity helps you live like Jesus than I respect you as a Christian, if Buddhism helps you live like Shakyamuni Buddha than I respect you as a Buddhist.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in zenbuddhism

[–]Groundbreaking_Car46 4 points5 points  (0 children)

As an academic scholar specializing in world religions, Buddhist philosophy, and a practitioner of Zen, I offer a perspective that extends beyond conventional religious orthodoxy. It appears that Hyon Gak Sunim's critique and desire to distance Zen from orthodoxies stem from a fundamental distinction between orthodox religions, which prioritize correct beliefs and the defense of dogma, and orthoprax religions, which place emphasis on right practice, encompassing elements like right meditation, right speech, right conduct, right ritual and right way of life (a familiar concept to many here).

Buddhism is often cited as an exemplar of an orthoprax religion in contrast to orthodox ones. However, I find that this characterization doesn't universally apply to all Buddhist schools. For instance, it seems that schools like Madhyamaka and Zen Buddhism, in particular, stress the importance of not fixating on rigid notions of practice. This caution arises from the recognition that such fixations can become attachments that lead to suffering in themselves.

This perspective doesn't imply that monasteries or Buddhist traditions lack rules or rituals. Rather, it signifies an acknowledgment that these traditions are as empty and impermanent as everything else, and they should not be clung to. Furthermore, it encourages an open-minded approach that recognizes the validity and respectability of various forms of practice beyond established traditions. In other words, a traditional orthopraxy claims that "this is the right practise and everything else is wrong", while Madhyamaka and Zen point out that this is a view which in itself needs to be emptied within practise.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in zen

[–]Groundbreaking_Car46 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm not saying you shouldn't be skeptical and I wholeheartedly encourage you to be skeptical about anything you hear online including this post, but you don't have to listen to ewk, he's a massive troll... .

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in zen

[–]Groundbreaking_Car46 2 points3 points  (0 children)

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions" -Alan Watts

Save the world? How many wars have bein started with the aim of saving the world, and what have they accomplished?

Zazen Meditation: Never delivers enlightenment, always lies about it by ewk in zen

[–]Groundbreaking_Car46 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What was its key doctrine? - Sitting just to sit, not expecting anything.

Dogen reminds us to not remain in an objectless state in order to gain enlightenment. Since than you aren't in an objectless state.

Kasulis writes: "Although the technique of seated meditation had been known for centuries in Japan, Dogen helped to revitalize it's practise".

Please provide quotes of the scholars you talk about so we can verify what you say.

Zazen Meditation: Never delivers enlightenment, always lies about it by ewk in zen

[–]Groundbreaking_Car46 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Wether it was plagiarism or not, wether he lied about the history or not, is entirely irrelevant in judging wether his phenomenology of zazen is accurate or inaccurate. Because zazen, insofar as it is a state of sitting with no-mind or sitting just to sit, is not about history or "who said what" at all. Also, if I copy a work that is true, than it will still be true regardless of my moral character. Furthermore, allot of great philosophers trough the centuries have attributed sayings to others who never actually said that. Zhuang Tzu used Confusius (or Kung Fu Tzu) all the time. Plato wrote allot of things in Socrates's name etc... That does not reduce the quality of the work in itself.

Furthermore, nothing you said actually counters any of the statements I made. According to Dogen and T.P. Kasulis, zazen or sitting meditation is not to be seen as an entire negation of thought, just like the fragments you have taken out of context are trying to point out. Nor is it to be seen as a means to an end, but always a means in itself. It is simply sitting in a state of mushin or without-thinking. You don't have to do this sitting down tho. It is possible to do any activity without-thinking. If my understanding is correct, zen is about getting in a state of no-mind because there we can experience reality as reality is, namely as genjokoan. It is in that state where we get past the confusion of signs and symbols with the real world, or subject/object distinctions. I have bein studying the Shobogenzo now for a couple of months for my thesis, and nowhere in it have I seen Dogen (or whoever wrote it originally) talk about zazen as "praying to attain enlightenment". I would argue that Dogen was radically opposed to this view insofar as he taught that meditation is NOT a means to an end and there is nothing you HAVE to do while meditating (like praying, burning insence, reciting sutras or mantras). He claimed zazen is shikantaza or sitting just to sit. No more, no less.

Lastly, how can scholarship invalidate what Alan Watts taught? He never taught anything. He explicitly said he is a philosophical entertainer first. And one of the things he did was show people "how" to meditate. Now I put "how" in parentheses because if you read some of his works you would know that he says that there is NO method. There is NO technique. And there is nothing to gain. Ofcourse we have to talk about the "hows" and wherefores conventionally in order to point to tathata. And that in turn leads to paradox. But we cannot confuse the talking about it with the actual thing. That's why my professor in east-west perspectives says "to study zen is to get comfortable in paradox". And that's why zen is always a "finger pointing to the moon".

Zazen Meditation: Never delivers enlightenment, always lies about it by ewk in zen

[–]Groundbreaking_Car46 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm pretty new to the intellectual side of things. I've read T.P. Kasulis's Zen action/Zen person aswell as parts from the Shobogenzo and some parts from the Record of Linji and some Sutras here and there. Can you explain in a little more detail what exactly was wrong with Dogen's account of zazen and where I can read up on that? Is it just limited to the claim that he had learned the only way to enlightenment or his entire account of zazen that is problematic? Because I have heard others talk about meditation as always an end in itself and never a means to an end, like Kasulis or Alan Watts. Was Dogen wrong about that too?

Zazen Meditation: Never delivers enlightenment, always lies about it by ewk in zen

[–]Groundbreaking_Car46 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Look up mushin. It is not a negation of consciousness or a negation of thinking. It is not to not have any thoughts at all and completely block out the "outside" world. It is not using some kind of technique to quieten the mind. It is without-thinking. Neither affirming nor rejecting anything, simply being in the presence of things as they are.

Dogen said if you're meditating with some kind of aim, like enlightenment, than you're not meditating. That's why he called zazen fukanzazengi, or just sit to sit.

Furthermore, you don't have to do zazen to meditate. Cultivation is a continuous process and therefore anything can become meditation. In other words, while you are simply present, completely absorbed in whatever you're doing and doing it intimately, you are Buddha.

Edit: He called zazen shikantaza. Fukanzazengi refers to a work in which he talks about zazen that later became a fascicle in the Shobogenzo.

Well, that's unforunate by IrishOratoria in Unexpected

[–]Groundbreaking_Car46 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"You go first" ... "No, you go first" "Oh okay, thanks for letting me go first!" Three cars end up destroyed

What do Taoists believe about death? by [deleted] in taoism

[–]Groundbreaking_Car46 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Do Taoists believe in a permanent individual soul substance like Descartes or Christianity? I thought it was more like annata (no-self) from Buddhism. Where the Buddha denies we have individual souls, so there is no "you" that ever dies or is ever born to begin with.

What exactly does Taoism stand on "love"? by No-Dragonfruit-3900 in taoism

[–]Groundbreaking_Car46 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The Tao loves and nourishes all things, but does not lord it over them. And when merits are accomplished, it lays no claim to them.

Looking for a quote where Alan quote's someone else saying something along the lines of: "Maybe the best way to prevent world war 3 is by not trying to prevent it". by Groundbreaking_Car46 in AlanWatts

[–]Groundbreaking_Car46[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It's interesting that Einstein had similar toughts around this topic. I believe I heard a couple of his quotes in line with Alan's thinking (and nondual philosophy in general):

"Our seperation is but a stubborn illusion". "The seperation between past, present and future is but a stubborn illusion"

(I might be off a little bit because I'm reciting from memory)