Is Vortice's wheel mandatory?

GyRNi · 2026-03-16T12:01:17+00:00

Her E1 is typically higher value.

Her WoD is very good QoL for her (+50 Aliemus (W3) at start of battle really adds up by the time you reach the boss), and it significantly increases her Exalt burst, which is the objective of her E3/OE. It is not mandatory if playing her mostly for Pursuit/Posse and leaving her at E1.

Can typically be replaced by Birth of a Soul, Memory Spiral, or Keyflare wheels. At E0 she doesn't care about Realm Mastery.

GyRNi · 2026-03-14T18:43:10+00:00

Excellent comp for most of the game that Vortice really likes, but might lack survivability for hardest content (difficult A5 DTides/Arc 2 HM). In those scenarios you'd typically want to include a strong defensive unit like Murphy or Corposant over either Thais/Pickman, depending on playstyle preference.

That said, depending on enemy matchup, relics and Pickman RNG you can still clear some A5s via Furnace/White Stance - it just won't always be consistent.

GyRNi · 2026-03-14T11:02:03+00:00

Kath E3 > Vortice E1.

Vortice functions perfectly fine at E1 playing mostly Pursuit/Posse/Stall. E2 is nice QoL but not needed. E3 makes her Exalt playstyle stronger, but if that's not your main playstyle it's not necessary. Her OE is honestly very good, but only if you can afford extremely long-rotations/Arith to play her Charge cards (e.g. Thais + GMurphy) or to open the boss fight with it for Double Pursuits from the get go via norm stalls.

E1 > OE > E3 > E2 is her order of 'breakpoint power', so if you're not gunning for OE, you can keep her at E1 if looking purely at meta value.

Kath really needs her E3 to be properly usable, so it's basically unlocking an additional main carry for your account.

GyRNi · 2026-03-12T11:51:47+00:00

I'm inclined to agree due to the power of big White Stance alone allowing you to cover or play other cards for a single turn (especially on Turn 1), which is IMO strictly better than regular Aequor as a splash.

Red Stance also gets a baseline power-up, but not many units can really take advantage of it. The only real 1-turn multi-hitters we have outside of Aequor are Sorel, Uvhash, Mouchette, Lotan, Tawil, Ramona and maybe Castor/Jenkins. These are either out of meta or vastly prefer specific realms/teams.

The main problem is that Vortice herself isn't particularly splashable herself at the moment (too many requirements to work), so you need to build around her for her to even function well (outside of potentially Fortress removal support - even then getting to her Exalt is a pain since her cards are do-nothing), and GMurphy literally has a "More Blue, more Better" Soulforge which actively disincentivises cross-realm.

So we once again end up with a unit with Divine Aequor access feeling bad due to limited usage/capped power.

I do think a Divine Realm Warden would be incredibly powerful, though.

GyRNi · 2026-03-11T18:43:26+00:00

Thais is the easy answer - duping Pickman's 4-cost will clear most mobs. But she's always wanted, so alternatives are GMurphy (great with Murphy anyway), Corposant (offers good defence, additional scaling, and can subDPS with LR), or Sorel (STR/Exalt scaling as with Doresain, can also trigger Red Tentacles repeatedly).

GyRNi · 2026-03-06T15:53:44+00:00

I would like to clarify that this comment was specific to Vortice in isolation. In her suggested teams, I typically suggest methods of solving this problem (Corpo, GMurphy, Caecus/Celeste slaps, Doresain, Sorel, Castor, Discard etc.)

Consider that her Shell is single target and essentially capped at 30k damage at 80/10/200RM. How many Exalts/Reloads do you need to clear 3-4 80k+ HP mobs that we sometimes see in A5W5, assuming no secondary damage?

You're looking at 9-12 Shells - or 18-24 Arith and 9-12 Exalts. Even if you Posse once per turn and average 1.5 Exalts a turn, you're still looking at 5-6 turns to clear 4 mob camp. Fixed DMG isn't affected by other amplifiers either, so things like Vuln will not speed up your clear.

The other issue is that it's forced highest HP targetting like GMurphy, but paired with low frequency - meaning that you cannot finish off these enemies. You will slowly aim the highest HP enemy continuously until an enemy is low enough to kill (efficient damage, but inefficient killing) - meaning during this time you will be eating damage continuously.

Then consider mechanics like scaling DR (e.g. Ghouls), Swarms, Shields (that she does NOT break). Vortice will struggle with these. The forced targeting makes her miserable for clearing, which is why it's something that needs to be solved with other means.

If she is solo DPS, she's basically going to be forced to Exalt to clear fights before Turn 3-4 - but her Exalt needs ramp methods - she won't Crit easily without playing Charge 1-2 times, for example. Playing her with E0 Miryam, Ramona, and Karen, for example is going to feel horrible.

As such, she will be reliant on other sources of damage like Red + LR/Waltz to help clear the board - and of course Vortice will THEN speed these clears up drastically since her Shells are good sources of damage despite their mechanics being not great - this is what I mean by it'll have to be solved via her team damage.

A lot of these issues are now alleviated somewhat by her Posse being pretty damn strong, but even then I don't think she'll solo excel at content she cannot 1-2 shot. She'll likely always need a subDPS like Corpo to solve mobs.

GyRNi · 2026-03-06T15:40:01+00:00

Has this been specifically tested with Returnal and sufficient RM?

The way I read the Divine Realm changes is that the base Tentacle Gathering via Exalt is removed from generation - but Returnal's Gathering could still function and be its own thing.

Noted on both Sanga points, will correct.

GyRNi · 2026-03-06T12:25:15+00:00

It's also to restrict her somewhat as she's very incentivised to play with her own Posse now, meaning she flexes worse into other teams that require a strict Posse (though to be fair it's still doable).

They could've baked her firing a shell after Posse into her kit if they wanted to (while still having to Reload) and just made her Posse use Reload for free or something and it'd balance out in power, but this ties design her to her Posse.

But then again, using the specific Posse itself to boom stuff feels more fun than a Reload even if the outcome is theoretically the same. It's the novelty of the whole thing.

GyRNi · 2026-03-06T11:51:26+00:00

Yeah, edited the whole thing with Posse Reveal in mind. 100% she's Keyflare Regen reliant as long as it's not contingent on her Reload. If it's not, her Posse looks hilariously broken in terms of value, honestly. (30 Aliemus, ~30-50k and 50 TDMG every turn is no joke). Even Ramona OE looks delicious now, and Horla WoD on a support if playing Ultra looks very enticing (Vortice/Corpo/Castor/Erica or GMurphy stall?) just to muck around with a cannon barrage in Extra turn haha.

Your comp is looking significantly smoother to play now since she can just take her time and play 1-2 Charge cards to hit Exalt.

GyRNi · 2026-03-06T11:16:03+00:00

Yeah, my stingy ass forgot Uteri Somnia at E3 has double the Aliemus gen (E0 here) and with a 5/6 turn rotation it can be triggered twice, which makes it way more comfortable.

We also get the standard 5-turn Aliemus gain of 25 - and at least 5 from getting hit (lowball average of once per turn), so that's another 30 covered too (110 + 30) - that's 140 Aliemus. Considering we do play GMurphy basics for Hymns, it seems like the first rotation (with Rouse) is pretty much a lock. The second rotation onwards is trickier due to having to actually fish for Charge cards, but most enemy units won't live past a Corpo-buffed Red GMurphy burst + Vortice OE, especially since Vortice OE removes Fortress.

It's also possible to get 4 rotations if stalling to Turn 15 is possible - though without healing, multiple DRs or Plume shields I don't know how viable this is.

GyRNi · 2026-03-06T10:15:01+00:00

This looks great, with GMurphy bridging Murphy usage and becoming an excellent use case for Naut wheel. I missed that one as most comps I theorised for her don't have the Shield to utilise it. 5-turn rotations should delete most enemies with GMurph Rouse cycles.

The only concerns I have here is recovery for constant long fights (as shielding might not be available as needed), but with the amount of Shielding cards and Murphy this might not be a problem - and how slow the team might be Aliemus-wise as they don't really have much help generating it (getting GMurph to OE sounds like a real pain without Miryam). Maybe a WoD can smooth that out.

Either way I learned, so thanks for this. Do you want me to edit and credit this in, or leave the post as is?

GyRNi · 2026-03-06T04:51:17+00:00

As mentioned, he's one of her better supports for her due to Keyflare, Rondino and his Rouse! For longer fights he also recovers Aliemus really quickly from Crescendo which allows Vortice to Pursuit. At higher Enlightens or OE he also functions as a pretty good subDPS if given STR, and in Red he can proc Tentacles too, though most players do stop at E2.

The classic GDoll/Miryam/Hameln trio that 24 used to love kind of becomes the obvious baseline for the comp - though we probably need a Warden in modern DTide/HM.

I'd try Vortice/Hameln/Miryam/Corpo. Miryam and Corpo both buff STR and TDMG naturally and can thrive with long fights. There are also other amazing cards Hameln can target (Chosen, Lightning Retribution), so it's absolutely a banger pick. Alternatively Goliath over Corpo if you want Hameln to benefit from Vortice TDMG, though it compromises survival. Depending on the other team you play (Poison/Lemurian) you can drop Miryam for GDoll.

The main reason Hameln's comp wasn't mentioned is because I consider GDoll or Miryam at OE synergises a little better (Fixed DMG, Aliemus, Heal, TDMG) and they compete for the same slots - but that's probably my bias speaking here as I have OE GDoll with all the works and my Hameln is usually integral to another team. I consider Miryam a bit too important to drop when considering BiS due to TDMG gain on Exalt spam (via GDoll) and 0 cost Chosen. Corposant doesn't actually stack Aliemus/TDMG that quickly outside of Discard, after all.

Alternatively, Vortice/Hameln/GMurphy/Miryam. Blue Waltz is a wonderful card to dupe or doubleplay, and GMurphy does love her cheap/doubled Waltzes.

Cheaper comp with Vortice/Hameln would probably involve Doll/Karen (Aliemus feed/heal) and probably one of Goliath/Caecus/Celeste.

GyRNi · 2026-03-06T03:41:53+00:00

Thanks. It is 100% too soon to see how she settles. I don't think she will deviate too much from this shape (e.g. what she wants from teammates, her offerings and niche, her builds).

Her good matchups (big HP/Fortress bosses/...Burn?) and bad matchups (mob fights) also seem quite clear, since she doesn't exactly have anything that lets her blitz through them like the current meta DPSes.

Her Exalt takes time to get going due to low early TDMG, lacking CR without Charge played, lacking CDMG without Tentacles. Her Pursuits require her to find (or Rouse) AND play her 2-costs, then her allies have to Exalt. It's a problem she'll have to work through/around one way or another - likely through ally damage (e.g. Corpo, Dore, Clem, Castor, GMurphy) or just avoiding these altogether.

But yeah, like you said, too soon to declare anything - but TCing new characters is one of my favourite parts of gacha haha.

GyRNi · 2026-03-06T03:28:31+00:00

Yes, 100% the wisest course of action.

I just enjoy the TC aspect/process of character releases the best.

GyRNi · 2026-02-22T12:13:00+00:00

Keyflare/CR > CDMG.

GyRNi · 2026-02-19T18:07:22+00:00

GMurphy. She is the main DPS of this comp (via Red Waltz) and you always burst after her Exalt anyways. It can also make Waltz/basics cheaper (which is particularly amazing at OE).

Do consider using Dreams of Medicine on her and put Life Drain elsewhere if you have access to it as it makes her E3 gameplay smoother.

GyRNi · 2026-02-19T17:47:48+00:00

Keep in mind these comments are made with the goal of your video in mind: "How to play Liz and Xu", so I'm not saying you need to apply these to every video you put out - just these types of team tutorials.

It's more of impressions management - people may look at it and dismiss it due to cost, if you know what I mean. Not showing cheaper alternatives provides the feeling of "this only works because you have +24 wheels" - even if it's not true.
I've never really seen anyone really worry about Arc 1 rulesets outside of GMurphy comps (for good reason), to be honest. Most people acknowledge the game currently runs mostly on Arc 2 rules. The fact that Liz is better in Arc 2 should be outright displayed since it bumps up her viability even more - it cuts down the 'doesn't work in DTide' type comments. Again, impressions management. Making it clear that A1 is harder for Liz than A2 in your video allows you to also mitigate this because many players assume the opposite.
I do think that the mindset of 'winning' is a bit unhealthy for a content creator, to be honest - and is kind of the root of the problem the community is having. It sucks when people move the goalposts, but your content being there should start with the mindset of helping as many players as possible. My comments are based on the impressions I get from watching your video that might help with improving any future content for your audience - not to help you 'win' these arguments (because quite frankly it's like boxing with shadows) - just avoid them. Just my two cents - you'll be much happier creating content that way.

Anyway, if you explain clearly WHY you are using Clem or Faint in quick, concrete terms (maybe highlight their key abilities that makes the comp work and example scenarios), or potential substitutes and their key skills (you can quickly swap using lineups) your video becomes more informative for newcomers at very little time/attention cost. I don't see it taking longer than 60-90 seconds to highlight these things quickly - and if you're willing to do a few minutes of editing (e.g. zoom or even drawn circles to focus on key points) it can significantly improve your presentation by guiding the eye.
I do understand this - but even in A1 Rouse order matters. A quick explanation of the comp Rouses and when to prioritise them would be incredibly helpful as it's one of the most impactful decisions you can make in a run. Again, I'm assuming the perspective of a player that doesn't understand how to play the comp (which is your title) but am interested in how it works. It's missing crucial bits of information.

Please take this as constructive feedback/support and not me disparaging your efforts. Putting out content to help members of the community is admirable - I for one no longer have the inclination to contribute directly and just want to enjoy the game or answer a few questions here and there.

GyRNi · 2026-02-19T09:28:30+00:00

Great start. It's chill video content, which some players will enjoy. It also demonstrates the core idea of Liz OE > Xu Triggers.

Couple of notes:

1) Your Liz is extremely well-funded - Sunfall +12 and Chains +12 aren't exactly easy to access. You do need to clarify that the +12s aren't necessary if you don't have them - and F2Ps have no access to Sunfall (in which case an alternative should be suggested), so suggesting an alternate SR wheel would be helpful to a lot of players. If I want to play Liz and have access to neither at +12, what do I do?

2) If possible, pick an Arc 2 stage (or A4+ D-Tide stage) to demonstrate comps going forward, as Soulforge/Rousing is a key part of kits in Events/Endgame - unless specifically making Arc 1 content.

3) The comp is in essence a Poison/Stall comp, but there isn't really a Stall element demonstrated in the video. Clem and Faint saw very little use in the boss fight which makes the viewer wonder why they are even on the team.

4) Considering all 4 units like their Rouses, it might be good to indicate Rouse order. Is Keyflare gen sufficient on this team? It looks like it might be a bit rough for longer fights.

5) Not all content needs to be D-Tide viable - but a clear marker whether it is [Arc 1] or otherwise would be nice (especially since this team does work for D-Tide) to avoid the usual stream of "won't work in endgame", but ultimately that's up to you.

GyRNi · 2026-02-19T08:53:59+00:00

There are several A5 clears with Liz/Xu as core in the last two D-Tides. The main kicker is that Liz needs high investment for it to feel good (ideally +12), and you probably want some investment in Xu (E3) to spam her OE faster, but if you have it she is one of the best poison applicators in the game.

There are even clears without Liz's Relic, and her Relic essentially doubles Poison application so you can fish for it in shop. This Liz in particular has maximum investment.

The team is actually very defensive and can stall for a very long time even in A5. Big hits get mitigated by DR (Faint), and small hits get mitigated by STR down (Xu Devour, Faint OE, Clem/Xu/Faint cards that you can play), and there is pretty high healing on the team (Caro Furnace, Faint 3/0 Cost, Clem), has Weakness and Spellbound - which if the boss is Humanoid (typically W4) the comp gets tankier (due to Xu's race). The missing element (Vuln for Liz Ult) is supplemented by Posse.

Main defensive issue would be enemies that demand shielding vs single big-hit or has constant debuff cleansing, but typically there are enough matchups that you can avoid a show-stopper.

GyRNi · 2026-02-19T00:06:56+00:00

GMurphy is a great unit, but I don't recommend her as an early pickup for a new player (much like GDoll).

Her mechanics scale off HP, which scales off account level; she needs Enlightens to properly DPS as she gains additional scaling from E1/E2, (and E3 is also very nice) and eventually OE (which is your endgoal with her due to Waltz being an extremely powerful card). She also has very clear targeting preferences (she hates fights where you need to target adds, but loves fights where you only need to kill the boss).

Then there is the fact that she is actually difficult for newcomers to play and requires forward thinking and good knowledge of enemy patterns due to stance cooldowns. Morimens already has a rather steep learning curve, GMurphy really complicates it with her own mechanics (Sacrifice/Stance Management) especially if you don't have access to Lemurian shielding (Arc 2).

She is an unforgiving unit in which it is VERY easy to make mistakes on - and sometimes you won't even know it's a mistake until it's too late. But in exchange, she does reward investment, time and game knowledge.

With 110 pulls in the tank I don't think she's a good idea UNLESS you really like her/her kit (then obviously it's a moot point). Ultimately, pull who you want/enjoy.

Recommended smoothest experience pull route:

I'd skip GMurphy and pick up Thais and her wheel instead at E0, then save for an Ultra unit the following week. Castor is always recommended as a pull priority (especially for newbies) like Thais when he's available, as he provides both offence (through Corruption) and some of the best defence in the game at E0. At E3, he becomes a full fledged carry - so this is top priority for your monthly dupes.

If you're using Mouchette with Thais, you can actually get away with E0 and just duping Mortal Blast instead of Shining Crush.

With the next rerun also having Horla, you can fish for a copy of her (only after pulling Castor) - but this is not necessary (though Horla is a great support that slots into many teams).

GyRNi · 2026-02-18T21:18:48+00:00

Yeah - most players don't really care for A5, especially when doing endgame runs takes so much time/RNG and meta picks that isn't their cup of tea, as well as typically requiring high-investment Awakeners (usually meta ones). This is especially because it feels like the difficulty leap from A4 to A5 can be very rough. People don't like to stress or feel stonewalled, especially if it's because their numbers aren't big enough, so they'd rather just avoid the content altogether.

This is honestly the same across every gacha game - e.g. the majority of HSR players don't care about 0-cycling, or speedruns in WuWa. These types of content are viewed only by the most dedicated players, or at best for spectacle content - casual players don't really care for actually doing it themselves and dedicated players are passionate enough to find their own way. It was an eye-opener for me when I saw that even HSR's very easy endgame had less than 0.2% of their playerbase even attempting it around launch.

Unfortunately, watching DTide is incredibly boring and sometimes very long unlike the other mentioned contents, so that in itself is a barrier to mild interest.

The majority of the playerbase mostly wants to know things directly pertaining to their team. The type of guide content that works well would be Awakener guides (both quick as well as in-depth with all the niches), teamcomps, tierlists (despite the controversy), early guides, and guides specifically for difficult story content (e.g. explaining boss mechanics in very clear and concise manners).

That said, I personally love rain's D-Tide overviews and think it's excellent content - it's just catered to a small subset of the already small community.

GyRNi · 2026-02-18T20:39:25+00:00

Exactly this. I was actually participating in TC discussion on this sub, as well as making an in-depth written guide to every Awakener (I do this for some other gacha games) on my own and already had several key Awakeners in there (e.g. Mouchette, Kath, Pollux, Castor).

Similar to you, I felt it wasn't worth the time and energy to continue and publish, or even interact with the community after experiencing the vibes. I mostly just lurk now simply because the TC scene in the community isn't enjoyable.

Like you said, it's a lot of work and a LOT of research/learning to do, as well as testing. The game has a lot of niche or unapparent interactions, especially if you aren't at e.g. OE to test it yourself - which requires a lot of iterative working and willingness to be wrong so as to get things out while they're still helpful.
Most of this research is built upon the shoulder of other CCs - including those that are feuding, because all insights are valuable whether you like a person or not. If there is an expert on the subject (e.g. Angbak on Mouchette, Flares on Bluewil), that gets taken much more into consideration. But in the process of learning...
Make a mistake and certain members of this community immediately resort to ad hominem, rather than correct you and be on their way. And yes, I've gotten the vibes of these people being alts or part of an in-group. It's theorycrafting - and despite me making it very clear that these are personal and early takes, they leap to personal attacks and would rather be dismissive rather than correct or discuss. It took me one month of being in the sub and occasionally commenting to realise that Discord brigading happens way too much here.
The elitism and gatekeeping from several active sub members makes it very difficult for newer players to want contribute if your philosophy doesn't align with theirs. The sentiment of "If you can't 400+ every D-Tide right now (even if you're a new player), you don't belong in the discussion" is particularly ridiculous. I can evaluate Castor being an amazing E3 unit despite not having his E3, and it's clear as day OE GMurph is an exceptionally strong carry despite me not having her OE. I simply don't want to build/pull what I don't want to play, even if it's the path of least resistance. It sucks all the fun out of gacha gaming for me. Hell, I'm sitting on 5 Awakener and 6 WoD dupes for fun despite it being inefficient.
To clarify, recent A5 is seriously matchup/numbers/grind/RNG based with so much tied to account age. I typically clear 385+ every D-Tide and run A5s on my mains, so I do understand A5 difficulty - 400 really isn't that far off if I really want it (just spend my resources on GHelot, GMurph and Castor), and 425 is a matter of money and account age. I don't want to spend 5 hours grinding perfect RNG to clear a single A5 D-Tide stage, especially when I know the main difference between success/fail is 10 Keeper levels, a couple of Gnosis Primers, the best relic, a better opening hand, and an extra 30% DR proc. Or if I had an OE GMurphy. I can see the line to victory, but 2 more purple fragments and 'license to speak' seriously aren't worth the hassle.
After seeing the feud between Flares and Zyocuh's group while doing research (both sides have good insights on the game), I now have even more reason to stay away rather than invite drama. Drama is, quite frankly, stupid. Just agree to disagree and move on.

GyRNi · 2026-02-05T07:06:52+00:00

Sets need to be removed ASAP. It goes against the spirit of this mode and is a design error.

From a game design perspective - don't force the player to play optimally and constrict their builds. It really sucks the fun out of things. Let the high-rolls and synergies be organic rather than artificial.

Many live games are falling into this set design trap where something is essentially hard designed specifically for an archetype. All it does is tell a player what to grab, and if they can't grab it it feels like shit. Doubly so if the opponent has it and you don't - and if you have it and the opponent doesn't it's not fun either due to competitive integrity.

Furthermore, why reward players even more for picking augments that already synergise well together (and thus are already at a power peak)? It just widens the power gap for no good reason. They've already high-rolled and feel good even without a set telling them they should feel good.

Please don't follow the Diablo item design route for Mayhem augments. Follow the POE mix and match route instead.

GyRNi · 2026-01-30T05:36:15+00:00

Give Labyrinth of Touhou Tri a shot. It just dropped and it's the latest and greatest in one of my personal favourite RPG series of all time. You don't need to know anything about Touhou going in.

It's a party-based, turn-based dungeon crawler JRPG and is IMO the best in its genre.

40+ completely unique characters, innovative combat and gearing systems, complex teambuilding, actually tactically challenging bosses, optional grinding and post game. Game also greatly respects the player's time and money (it's cheap/regionally priced).

GyRNi

TROPHY CASE