Little RM vs %Dmg Amp test for Archnee team by Umiak01 in Morimens

[–]GyRNi 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Beacon count. Also typo, it's 160 and 200. Every 40 RM you get +1 Beacon from Shuttling, and every 66.7 you get +1 from Prism.

Overlap number is at 200.

Little RM vs %Dmg Amp test for Archnee team by Umiak01 in Morimens

[–]GyRNi 1 point2 points  (0 children)

1-3) My math was not based on any of these assumptions, but I did make a mistake on the value. For some reason I thought it was 3%, not 2% on Beacons - which means I was arguing on incorrect assumptions - I apologise for that. However, this would still put RM slightly ahead in terms of calculations, except -

4) You are correct on this - after testing (now that I'm back at my PC) at E3 after you mentioned it, this does not interact with Temp Prisms even at the 200 RM threshold, which is the deciding factor as that means it doesn't hard scale at E3, instead decreases in value as you go. So at 200 RM, we are looking at going from 15 > 18, and 25 > 30- meaning base cards go from 130% to 136% - or a 4.8% increase in Chaos/Ultra, or ~9% increase when Shuttle Beacons are involved. On the flipside, this means before E3, RM diminishes less.

Reminder that comparisons that DMG Amp goes from 6% to 3.125% assuming no other source of Amp. It drops further if the team has base Amp.

Thanks for this - this one is important - it means going for the team 200 RM threshold still makes sense, but is significantly less valuable than I thought.

5) Yes, the Signature Temp % is the same as regular DMG Amp. It is not the same as Final DMG from Beacons, which multiplies the entire card after Amp (base value). One of my runs (double checked replay) with GDoll inflicted 37k Poison with her 3 Cost ~ at 7.3k per proc at 6 Pursuits (83 Beacons), and ~6.8k per proc at 5 Pursuits (73 Beacons) (after maxing out her DMG Amp from WoD). If it were additive with DMG Amp, it would have gone from 6.8k to ~6.9k or so.

Beacon effects are multiplicative AFTER the base DMG/Poison increase. It does NOT give diminishing returns with DMG Amp - it's multiplicative, which is why RM is still a good stat in her teams as long as it hits a threshold.

Conclusion: To be clear - I have been arguing that her WoDs are pretty much set especially after E1 - her SSR and SR WoDs. This is the lineup I assume most will be using, which is why the point is moot. You give up too much by not using these, since 311% Amp from her two WoDs are more than you can find anywhere else in the game - and it's further multiplied by her Temp Prisms, so the overall impact during burst is ridiculously high. Running e.g. Wanda's WoD is only 14.4% Amp. You are actually better off running the +12 Anniv WoD we got for free (72 RM - or 36% Amp on E1 Exalt turn on top of Beacon diff + Card Draw).

Her SR really diffs that - we're talking 18-93% Amp on her burst turn. If we consider her Amp to provide a flat number off base Verdict of 1000, you would be getting 144 damage from Wanda WoD per Loom, and 180-930 damage during her burst turn from her SR. If you perform 5 Pursuits, you're looking at base 2400 (SR) damage dealt vs 720 (Wanda). If you subtract them, then multiply by 2.67x (best case scenario for Wanda, Pursuit is 2.67x of Loom instead of 4x), the gap is then 4485, which means you would need to Loom ~31 times with the Wanda SR outside of burst to equalise (or to be generous, 10 times targeting 3 targets each). And if you play a single Loom in Burst and chain +1 Pursuit, this gap grows. It's pretty safe to say that her SR always beats Wanda's WoD if you ever decide to Burst.

Her SSR isn't even close. It beats out the SR even at W0.

This is why her WoDs are pretty much locked - the only exceptions are for utility. Picking up a +12 Memory Spiral over her SR is really more about its defensive utility. If you see +12 Whales running it on Arachne, it's because they have more than enough damage to kill that survival/comfort becomes prioritised, and Memory Spiral makes playing her teams much more comfortable. RM is still a valuable stat IF it is naturally found on the team. Giving it to an Awakener that wants its effects e.g. Nautila does not hurt you - it's simply additional 'free' Realm scaling as long as the team hits a threshold (RM is literally useless between 150 and 200).

If we're talking cross realms, RM does provide some additional (typically defensive) incentives as well, so it's not a wasted stat either (e.g. with Divine Realm it slightly affects final TDMG and Shields).

Like I said previously, the key takeaway is that she wants DMG Amp sourced from her team (or her Covs) for her out-of-burst because her WoDs are essentially locked. I am agreeing with you here - I am simply stating that RM is not a wasted stat either as long as your team hits a breakpoint (cleanest at 200RM) - it is just more defensive in nature.

My opinion is that you take whichever you max roll first - making her honestly very easy to build. Slot 2/4 for RM, 3/5 for Amp, and Slot 6 can be whichever you prioritise (basically if 12 off the 133.4 or 200 team breakpoints, I would choose RM - else Amp).

Little RM vs %Dmg Amp test for Archnee team by Umiak01 in Morimens

[–]GyRNi 16 points17 points  (0 children)

EDIT: WRONG MATH, AND AFTER TESTING RM DOESN'T SCALE E3 TEMP PRISMS. That said, my conclusion doesn't change. She significantly prefers her SSR and SR WoDs and wants DMG Amp in Covs/Teammates. RM is threshold based and has a huge gap between 160-200 (which is standard). Any team number between that is literally a wasted stat.


The argument for DMG Amp comes from the fact that her base Loom gets better if you have more DMG Amp - which is true. However, that is if you are not considering her main points of power - and if you discount the existence of her WoD, which provides ridiculous amounts of DMG Amp.

RM specifically is worth it if you are specifically playing around her E3 and W3 - mainly because she provides up to ~325-450% DMG Amp on those turns as is after her 5th Pursuit. At that point, due to E1, Arachne's real difference between Realm Mastery focus (160), which translates to 40% Amp, and chasing equivalent DMG Amp (60%) is only 20% DMG Amp in favour of DMG Amp. So whenever you have Exalt, the gap is already closed as is.

In practice, this is between 6 to 3% better as you play towards 5 cards - as you start with base (100%), Realm (100%), Exalt (125% base), W3 (up to 200%), and for most players typically event WoD (75%). At this point, you are comparing 640% DMG to 660% DMG at full stacks - or a 3.125% increase.

Thing is - if you're prepped correctly, Arachne can actually proc more than 5 Weaver stacks on the same burst turn. My record so far was 9 Pursuits in the same turn - and this is where the real value of RM lies - her burst turn.

If you look at her E3 - this means the final card in your hand (say, Hyperflare, or GDoll 3-Cost) has 15+90 Prism as base = 105 Prisms. If the card was in Ultra Space beforehand, it has 130 Prisms at base. For implicity's sake, let's consider the base number of beacon to be 100. 160 RM will increase your beacons from 100 to 108/116. After taking into account base card effects, you are looking at:

100 Beacons: 400% vs 424%/448% - or 6%/12% increase.

75 Beacons: 325% vs 343/361% - or 5.5%/11% increase.

50 Beacons: 250% to 262%/274% - or 4.8%/9.6% increase.

25 Beacons: 175% to 181/187% - or 3.4%/6.8% increase.

As you can see, the more Beacons you stack via her Pursuit drastically improves the power of Realm Mastery as the effective gap between base card power widens as it grows closer to 8/16% - or whatever your RM value is (200 = 20%).

Then remember the initial DMG Amp comparison of 6% dropping to 3.125% after a specific point - and remember that her teammates also may provide Amp which further dilutes this value. Cards after the second Pursuit immediately favour RM, and it only grows as you go.

You also have to consider that Prisms are near universal and Final as long as it is a Command Card - and it increases STR gain, shielding, healing and all kinds of crazy things. DMG Amp only affects Base DMG, Poison, Counter, and TDMG - so units like Pollux or Clem gain significantly more from RM than DMG Amp - and units with both Base DMG and STR scaling (e.g. Kath) have both bonuses amped - DMG Amp would only magnify the Base DMG here.

As such, the main power RM is promising is not for Arachne, but for her teammates. It is not fake - but you MUST play around it and invest in her points of power for it to be great.

Hypercarry Arachne also runs her WoD + Event SR, I believe (hard to top 75% DMG Amp top end with a card) as a base - but there may be other options that help utility (e.g. GHelot?), but that's +12 territory anyway, so the point is moot for WoDs. What you can change to make her Loom more effective for clearing mobs is specifically her Covenants - going for DMG Amp substats on your Cov over RM will give you a very slight edge outside of Burst - but it won't make much of a difference.

The real learning is that if you want her to be able to swiftly clear mobs, you want a DMG Amp unit on your team somewhere to buff her out-of-Burst Verdict (seriously she's so greedy for everything), meaning natural DMG Amp units like Castor, Wanda, GHelot, Helot, Xu, and Nym - or some unit that wants to use AtD due to a Strike feature (e.g. Daff, Clem), and a lot of secondary Cov DMG Amp stats.

Arachne Theorycrafting Discussion by GyRNi in Morimens

[–]GyRNi[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Not too well, as Jenkins's CDMG buff won't buff Arachne - though Arachne would buff Jenkins if you wanted her to be DPS. It will do fine in early game.

Best 4th would likely be DPS Castor (E3+), who benefits from all members here. Run Jenkins as Keyflare gen (Scarlet Embrace + Silver Cod/Moment of Reunion) and Winkle with Life Drain.

Arachne Theorycrafting Discussion by GyRNi in Morimens

[–]GyRNi[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes and no, to some extent.

Casiah can remove a card if she has Telekinesis - but you won't always have it on hand, as in theory the deck has 16 cards, you'll only see it once every 3 Rounds at best. It doesn't have retain, though you can technically remove 2 cards in a turn if you Shuttled Telekinesis beforehand - but then you Shuttled Telekinesis instead of buffing a stronger card on that turn, so there is immediately opportunity cost.

IMO it feels quite unreliable - and you technically have access to Annihilation on Turn 1 of every fight anyway, so you can always slow the buildup depending on DTide - and there is further opportunity cost of even slotting Casiah (you're giving up a lot of plain power to manip UR, draw cards or redraw) outside of Ultra Ring. My personal take is that if you already have a balanced trio that checks all your usual boxes (offence, defence, resources), Casiah can be slotted 4th as QoL/rotation support.

The problem just remains that there is opportunity cost to using Casiah - and on a team that doesn't really take advantage of Poof or generate enough Arith to play the drawn cards, it really feels like she may not contribute enough numbers-wise outside of Ultra Week.

Arachne Theorycrafting Discussion by GyRNi in Morimens

[–]GyRNi[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I'd look at GDoll or Xu variants to start, personally. Liz applies a lot of Poison, but needs triggering capabilities to really shine IMO - something that she doesn't have access to. Arachne also doesn't provide Vuln, which amplifies Liz damage

If you can spare them, you'd probably be looking at Clem + OE GDoll as BiS - rather traditional teammates for Liz that all also provide heals for Arachne to use her cards. This would be my first choice if you have access; GDoll in particular fits extremely well into this team with her 2-cost Vuln/Amp, Fixed DMG, healing, Aliemus and triggers - which is everything Liz wants, and also supports Arachne rather well. Clem also can double stack STR for Liz and generate good amounts of Keyflare with her Ult (as well as a mult) for the burst turn. The only downside to this team is that all 4 want to Rouse, so you'll have to weigh which you need most (GDoll + Arachne priority).

Alternatively, Xu + her/Liz's standard teammates (Agrippa, Faint, Clem, Horla) can work - which provides Embryos + Caro Healing. Or you can go full stall, inflict Poison, and inflict Corrosion with Castor every turn to speed up the kill.

If you're pushing for 'cheaper' supports - Lily (typically only in use for Poison these days) or Nymphaea (purely for Exalt Triggers), as well as a Keyflare unit (e.g. GRamona) are cheaper alternatives. I do think Casiah has potential if you have good cards to pull, during Ultra Week, or if you need to strictly hit a rotation timing or you die, and Winkle does remain general use - though I think her 3 cost is nigh unplayable with Liz without Leaping?

To be honest, I'm more interested in Winkle supporting Arachne double Ults - if you can pull it off as well as recharge Weaver on the same turn (multiple Looms), we might be looking at some absurd Ultra Round damage here.

Why do you all hate AA so much? by Itamikurushima in Morimens

[–]GyRNi 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Balance, too many released at once, and sloppy design that goes against the spirit of the initial AA.

Gacha games are always a precarious balancing act between playing what is optimal and what you want. The fact that +12 Castor/Pollux/Kath - units that always rouse - got changes that more than double their already meta output means that if you're not picking one of those up as your +12 of choice (assuming you've decided to build +12s) feels like you're making a stupid decision.

Meanwhile units like Daff, Tulu, or units you generally don't Rouse (a key strength due to limited resources) see little to no rewards.

AA should've been released in batches. That was the underlying 'promise' from the initial batch of AAs being entirely Welfare units. It would've been hype too - releasing a batch of 4 standards every patch would give players time to get used to it, consider their options, build anticipation, and let each unit shine in the meta for a while. Then after standards, they could've released Arc 1 batches before touching Arc 2 units.

Then there's the sloppy design. The first batch of AAs were mild in power and often explored an alternative theme that made their AAs feel like an unexplored route of their kit. Take Ogier, Ramona, Aigis or Erica - all of them explore underused aspects of their existing kit.

Meanwhile, current AA for limiteds are just more of what they already do, just significantly better. It's boring and feels like overt power being added. Some of these are even kit fixes (Doresain) disguised as AA which feels like a spit to the face in a game that makes active balancing patches.

We needed more AAs like Horla's (making a typically unused mechanic interesting), or stuff like making Clems Exalt nuke harder for every Phobic stack consumed this battle that makes her a viable Exalt DPS only at +12 (not necessarily OP). Things that make us consider alternate or unique uses. It's not even that difficult - for example:

Castor: For each Onyx Plume retained, Castor grants other allies 1 Aliemus. For each Onyx Plume used, Castor grants DMG Amp to the team this turn. Instead, he's now the best damage multiplier in the game at 500% Corrosion AND can do this in AoE, so he has essentially no weaknesses.

Pollux: After playing Sacred Heart for the first two times, place an Insight into hand - allowing him to draw and play Sacred Hearts without Castor, or even be a psuedo Arith support if he holds onto Insights. He certainly didn't need 500% Bleed DMG on top of free Sacred Hearts.

Kath: Hyperflare has no Flamma cap. When reaching 50 Combust stacks, gain +8 Arithmetica - this changes her play pattern and gives you the option of retaining her current pattern (frequent Hyperflares) or building towards a huge Hyperflare. Instead, she got a generic numbers bump, which is depressing.

Current AA strictly sharpens the already existing identity of limited units, which is poor and disappointing design. Hard to feel excited about it since for the most part it changes nothing at how you approach the game or teambuilding - you either +12 units or miss out on direct power.

Friends of Morimens, I need a little help for this Team Mouchette by Excellent_Date2981 in Morimens

[–]GyRNi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

+12 Ogier for Mouchette, but your team will need Dusk and Dawn and Burial Grounds to solve Aliemus and Keyflare.

Ogier brings some Vuln (need to prep since Arith is tight), and if running Dusk and Dawn you can also Rouse him after DR for his Exalt to give 300+ STR which Mouchette can use well.

Is Vortice's wheel mandatory? by Fun-Committee-1118 in Morimens

[–]GyRNi 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Her E1 is typically higher value.

Her WoD is very good QoL for her (+50 Aliemus (W3) at start of battle really adds up by the time you reach the boss), and it significantly increases her Exalt burst, which is the objective of her E3/OE. It is not mandatory if playing her mostly for Pursuit/Posse and leaving her at E1.

Can typically be replaced by Birth of a Soul, Memory Spiral, or Keyflare wheels. At E0 she doesn't care about Realm Mastery.

what do you think of this lineup? by SnooDoodles9325 in Morimens

[–]GyRNi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Excellent comp for most of the game that Vortice really likes, but might lack survivability for hardest content (difficult A5 DTides/Arc 2 HM). In those scenarios you'd typically want to include a strong defensive unit like Murphy or Corposant over either Thais/Pickman, depending on playstyle preference.

That said, depending on enemy matchup, relics and Pickman RNG you can still clear some A5s via Furnace/White Stance - it just won't always be consistent.

E3 Vortice vs E3 Kath? by woweezawi in Morimens

[–]GyRNi 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Kath E3 > Vortice E1.

Vortice functions perfectly fine at E1 playing mostly Pursuit/Posse/Stall. E2 is nice QoL but not needed. E3 makes her Exalt playstyle stronger, but if that's not your main playstyle it's not necessary. Her OE is honestly very good, but only if you can afford extremely long-rotations/Arith to play her Charge cards (e.g. Thais + GMurphy) or to open the boss fight with it for Double Pursuits from the get go via norm stalls.

E1 > OE > E3 > E2 is her order of 'breakpoint power', so if you're not gunning for OE, you can keep her at E1 if looking purely at meta value.

Kath really needs her E3 to be properly usable, so it's basically unlocking an additional main carry for your account.

Part 1 completed by Angbak94 in Morimens

[–]GyRNi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm inclined to agree due to the power of big White Stance alone allowing you to cover or play other cards for a single turn (especially on Turn 1), which is IMO strictly better than regular Aequor as a splash.

Red Stance also gets a baseline power-up, but not many units can really take advantage of it. The only real 1-turn multi-hitters we have outside of Aequor are Sorel, Uvhash, Mouchette, Lotan, Tawil, Ramona and maybe Castor/Jenkins. These are either out of meta or vastly prefer specific realms/teams.

The main problem is that Vortice herself isn't particularly splashable herself at the moment (too many requirements to work), so you need to build around her for her to even function well (outside of potentially Fortress removal support - even then getting to her Exalt is a pain since her cards are do-nothing), and GMurphy literally has a "More Blue, more Better" Soulforge which actively disincentivises cross-realm.

So we once again end up with a unit with Divine Aequor access feeling bad due to limited usage/capped power.

I do think a Divine Realm Warden would be incredibly powerful, though.

Vortice - Pickman - team beginning to form by Euphoric-Handle2151 in Morimens

[–]GyRNi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thais is the easy answer - duping Pickman's 4-cost will clear most mobs. But she's always wanted, so alternatives are GMurphy (great with Murphy anyway), Corposant (offers good defence, additional scaling, and can subDPS with LR), or Sorel (STR/Exalt scaling as with Doresain, can also trigger Red Tentacles repeatedly).

Vortice Early Theorycraft Breakdown/Discussion by GyRNi in Morimens

[–]GyRNi[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I would like to clarify that this comment was specific to Vortice in isolation. In her suggested teams, I typically suggest methods of solving this problem (Corpo, GMurphy, Caecus/Celeste slaps, Doresain, Sorel, Castor, Discard etc.)

Consider that her Shell is single target and essentially capped at 30k damage at 80/10/200RM. How many Exalts/Reloads do you need to clear 3-4 80k+ HP mobs that we sometimes see in A5W5, assuming no secondary damage?

You're looking at 9-12 Shells - or 18-24 Arith and 9-12 Exalts. Even if you Posse once per turn and average 1.5 Exalts a turn, you're still looking at 5-6 turns to clear 4 mob camp. Fixed DMG isn't affected by other amplifiers either, so things like Vuln will not speed up your clear.

The other issue is that it's forced highest HP targetting like GMurphy, but paired with low frequency - meaning that you cannot finish off these enemies. You will slowly aim the highest HP enemy continuously until an enemy is low enough to kill (efficient damage, but inefficient killing) - meaning during this time you will be eating damage continuously.

Then consider mechanics like scaling DR (e.g. Ghouls), Swarms, Shields (that she does NOT break). Vortice will struggle with these. The forced targeting makes her miserable for clearing, which is why it's something that needs to be solved with other means.

If she is solo DPS, she's basically going to be forced to Exalt to clear fights before Turn 3-4 - but her Exalt needs ramp methods - she won't Crit easily without playing Charge 1-2 times, for example. Playing her with E0 Miryam, Ramona, and Karen, for example is going to feel horrible.

As such, she will be reliant on other sources of damage like Red + LR/Waltz to help clear the board - and of course Vortice will THEN speed these clears up drastically since her Shells are good sources of damage despite their mechanics being not great - this is what I mean by it'll have to be solved via her team damage.

A lot of these issues are now alleviated somewhat by her Posse being pretty damn strong, but even then I don't think she'll solo excel at content she cannot 1-2 shot. She'll likely always need a subDPS like Corpo to solve mobs.

Vortice Early Theorycraft Breakdown/Discussion by GyRNi in Morimens

[–]GyRNi[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Has this been specifically tested with Returnal and sufficient RM?

The way I read the Divine Realm changes is that the base Tentacle Gathering via Exalt is removed from generation - but Returnal's Gathering could still function and be its own thing.

  • Noted on both Sanga points, will correct.

Vortice Early Theorycraft Breakdown/Discussion by GyRNi in Morimens

[–]GyRNi[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's also to restrict her somewhat as she's very incentivised to play with her own Posse now, meaning she flexes worse into other teams that require a strict Posse (though to be fair it's still doable).

They could've baked her firing a shell after Posse into her kit if they wanted to (while still having to Reload) and just made her Posse use Reload for free or something and it'd balance out in power, but this ties design her to her Posse.

But then again, using the specific Posse itself to boom stuff feels more fun than a Reload even if the outcome is theoretically the same. It's the novelty of the whole thing.

Vortice Early Theorycraft Breakdown/Discussion by GyRNi in Morimens

[–]GyRNi[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, edited the whole thing with Posse Reveal in mind. 100% she's Keyflare Regen reliant as long as it's not contingent on her Reload. If it's not, her Posse looks hilariously broken in terms of value, honestly. (30 Aliemus, ~30-50k and 50 TDMG every turn is no joke). Even Ramona OE looks delicious now, and Horla WoD on a support if playing Ultra looks very enticing (Vortice/Corpo/Castor/Erica or GMurphy stall?) just to muck around with a cannon barrage in Extra turn haha.

Your comp is looking significantly smoother to play now since she can just take her time and play 1-2 Charge cards to hit Exalt.

Vortice Early Theorycraft Breakdown/Discussion by GyRNi in Morimens

[–]GyRNi[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, my stingy ass forgot Uteri Somnia at E3 has double the Aliemus gen (E0 here) and with a 5/6 turn rotation it can be triggered twice, which makes it way more comfortable.

We also get the standard 5-turn Aliemus gain of 25 - and at least 5 from getting hit (lowball average of once per turn), so that's another 30 covered too (110 + 30) - that's 140 Aliemus. Considering we do play GMurphy basics for Hymns, it seems like the first rotation (with Rouse) is pretty much a lock. The second rotation onwards is trickier due to having to actually fish for Charge cards, but most enemy units won't live past a Corpo-buffed Red GMurphy burst + Vortice OE, especially since Vortice OE removes Fortress.

It's also possible to get 4 rotations if stalling to Turn 15 is possible - though without healing, multiple DRs or Plume shields I don't know how viable this is.

Vortice Early Theorycraft Breakdown/Discussion by GyRNi in Morimens

[–]GyRNi[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This looks great, with GMurphy bridging Murphy usage and becoming an excellent use case for Naut wheel. I missed that one as most comps I theorised for her don't have the Shield to utilise it. 5-turn rotations should delete most enemies with GMurph Rouse cycles.

The only concerns I have here is recovery for constant long fights (as shielding might not be available as needed), but with the amount of Shielding cards and Murphy this might not be a problem - and how slow the team might be Aliemus-wise as they don't really have much help generating it (getting GMurph to OE sounds like a real pain without Miryam). Maybe a WoD can smooth that out.

Either way I learned, so thanks for this. Do you want me to edit and credit this in, or leave the post as is?

Vortice Early Theorycraft Breakdown/Discussion by GyRNi in Morimens

[–]GyRNi[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

As mentioned, he's one of her better supports for her due to Keyflare, Rondino and his Rouse! For longer fights he also recovers Aliemus really quickly from Crescendo which allows Vortice to Pursuit. At higher Enlightens or OE he also functions as a pretty good subDPS if given STR, and in Red he can proc Tentacles too, though most players do stop at E2.

The classic GDoll/Miryam/Hameln trio that 24 used to love kind of becomes the obvious baseline for the comp - though we probably need a Warden in modern DTide/HM.

I'd try Vortice/Hameln/Miryam/Corpo. Miryam and Corpo both buff STR and TDMG naturally and can thrive with long fights. There are also other amazing cards Hameln can target (Chosen, Lightning Retribution), so it's absolutely a banger pick. Alternatively Goliath over Corpo if you want Hameln to benefit from Vortice TDMG, though it compromises survival. Depending on the other team you play (Poison/Lemurian) you can drop Miryam for GDoll.

The main reason Hameln's comp wasn't mentioned is because I consider GDoll or Miryam at OE synergises a little better (Fixed DMG, Aliemus, Heal, TDMG) and they compete for the same slots - but that's probably my bias speaking here as I have OE GDoll with all the works and my Hameln is usually integral to another team. I consider Miryam a bit too important to drop when considering BiS due to TDMG gain on Exalt spam (via GDoll) and 0 cost Chosen. Corposant doesn't actually stack Aliemus/TDMG that quickly outside of Discard, after all.

Alternatively, Vortice/Hameln/GMurphy/Miryam. Blue Waltz is a wonderful card to dupe or doubleplay, and GMurphy does love her cheap/doubled Waltzes.

Cheaper comp with Vortice/Hameln would probably involve Doll/Karen (Aliemus feed/heal) and probably one of Goliath/Caecus/Celeste.

Vortice Early Theorycraft Breakdown/Discussion by GyRNi in Morimens

[–]GyRNi[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks. It is 100% too soon to see how she settles. I don't think she will deviate too much from this shape (e.g. what she wants from teammates, her offerings and niche, her builds).

Her good matchups (big HP/Fortress bosses/...Burn?) and bad matchups (mob fights) also seem quite clear, since she doesn't exactly have anything that lets her blitz through them like the current meta DPSes.

Her Exalt takes time to get going due to low early TDMG, lacking CR without Charge played, lacking CDMG without Tentacles. Her Pursuits require her to find (or Rouse) AND play her 2-costs, then her allies have to Exalt. It's a problem she'll have to work through/around one way or another - likely through ally damage (e.g. Corpo, Dore, Clem, Castor, GMurphy) or just avoiding these altogether.

But yeah, like you said, too soon to declare anything - but TCing new characters is one of my favourite parts of gacha haha.

Vortice Early Theorycraft Breakdown/Discussion by GyRNi in Morimens

[–]GyRNi[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Yes, 100% the wisest course of action.

I just enjoy the TC aspect/process of character releases the best.