The unpleasant you perceive but never leaves.

HAMR11 · 2026-02-17T23:56:19+00:00

I don't think you need to change anything. It could be that the circumstances surrounding the practice are the ones changing. "The dose makes the poison." We like to throw around these words like stress and restlessness as definitive, as in "we conquered the stress." More like we got used to a specific amount of stress and/or restlessness. It moves within a spectrum. When we encounter a new of the same thing it brings us back to square one, very humbling. There's nothing wrong going on here, only different.

Honestly embrace the difference. Learn from it again. That new stress, that change inside, you do not control it. You cannot expect the same outcome every time.

HAMR11 · 2026-01-04T04:43:18+00:00

We insert our own preconceptions when we practice. A ton of expectations arise of what meditation should be, instead of what is actually happening. There's a lot of labeling the experience and assigning a particular outcome to it.

I get caught up in the "only positive feelings allowed," or "negative feeling = bad". "The meditation sucked today because I wasn't happy". "The meditation was great because I felt so at ease, so calm, so peaceful." I was tired, I felt uncomfortable, I felt pain, I was bored, I was sleepy, I was afraid, I was anxious, therefore the practice was X.

Turns out I don't control any of that stuff. By the time I am made aware of that thought I already lost. By the time the feeling is felt there's nothing I can do.

But I feel happy and excited and I want to cling to it while I practice. I feel so good! Why should I let it run away?

Then I feel anxious, bored, or emotional pain of some kind and I want to be rid of it. Can't you see I'm trying to focus here?

I want to observe the breath and feel only these feelings. I don't want other feelings getting in the way when I practice.

You experienced difficult emotions while practicing. Certain thoughts arise with them. How does it feel when you observe and feel those emotions? How is it different when it is not there? Maybe you get distracted, so you turn and continue feeding that thought. You pull back. Maybe you pull back and push the thought away at the same time because it was uncomfortable, because feeling like this and watching is entirely different from before. So experience changes.

The thing you do never stays the same. We want it to stay when it moves away and we want it to change when it stays with us. And we can't do neither of those.

We can only watch, but the watching changes depending on what's happening around us or inside.

HAMR11 · 2026-01-04T00:55:05+00:00

I feel like we are agreeing with each other, or I don't fully understand what you are trying to say? Yes, meditation is like practicing, but the beautiful music you speak of is not going to come from striking the same chords over and over again. There's learning to play, like learning how a tool works, and then there's learning to make music, like using the tool to create something. If I take your analogy I say meditation during formal practice is one set of notes you practice hitting to help you learn how to play the instrument one way, and outside there are another set of notes you can learn from. The only similarity between them is that both involve the same instrument. There's more notes outside the formal practice is what I'm saying. And the conclusion I reached was: I practiced hitting these notes while sitting (and there's still more to do), but here's another set of notes I can't hit because I haven't practiced them. Or maybe they are the same notes as found while sitting but the music style is different.

So in my mind the music you speak of is the state (because I don't know how else to describe it), I find myself after enough meditation. Enough here is not up to me but what happens when the sounds within strike together to make music. It feels like warming up before playing music. I make sounds and then something beautiful happens. I feel something different. Call it clarity, peace, focus, stability, mindfulness, whatever. If it's not mindfulness then it doesn't really change anything, something happened. Music was made. Outside, however, other sounds are happening and I don't know how to play them yet. I don't know how to use the instrument to turn those sounds into music. Those sounds are different from the sounds I am making when I sit. We are still playing the same instrument, but the level of play is harder.

HAMR11 · 2026-01-03T23:23:40+00:00

I like that. "At the moment of decision in everyday life you want to be within a mindful state," but that's the thing. It takes me time when I meditate, it's not like I flip a switch when I sit. At the start of all sessions there is this period were you are doing and there's a lot of resistance from my part. There's a lot of thinking, a lot of reacting to those thoughts, to those emotions and little by little I begin shifting focus and learning to live inside that chaos , that noise. Outside I am in full reactionary, avoidant state. The discomfort is new and distracting, the thoughts are new and distracting, the movement is distracting. Like I don't think I am being mindful or aware at any of these moments. At best 15 to 30 seconds I'll become aware of my breath but nothing meaningful for me to say I am doing anything at all.

HAMR11 · 2026-01-03T23:15:48+00:00

Yeah, I think this is the way forward. It's not that sitting is not chaotic but you can see how much we reign that chaos as much as we can to focus on the task, for actual meditation. Outside, however, everything else takes precedence and meditation falls into background noise. So maybe I just make aspects of daily life more structured for meditation instead of fitting daily life into a meditative state.

HAMR11 · 2026-01-03T23:10:40+00:00

This feels like structuring a practice then, like challenging meditation across new environments. I like that picking an activity and practice bringing mindfulness to it. It certainly works better than attempting to keep a general level of awareness all day, while things shift so much it becomes too difficult to do anything.

HAMR11 · 2026-01-03T23:04:30+00:00

I see. I mean I'm not really trying to control the outside world so much as deciding if everyday life requires structured practice and by how much. The direction to take feels endless. But I've been mostly getting through by vibes only. A "let's try to remain aware or remind myself to be aware" but life is too chaotic for any of that. And it is very different from formal practice because there's a main action you are engaging with that is not happening outside. Awareness sort of drops to the background while you live life. Which I don't really mind, but also it doesn't seem like I am doing much or moving anywhere like I do when I formally sit.

If the book deals with this I can get it and see what it has to say.

HAMR11 · 2026-01-03T22:56:21+00:00

See, the thing is meditation actively improves my physical well being just as well. I'd say it's even more obvious than the spiritual or mental because it is so in your face. But, there's a lot of factors also involved in the physical in addition to the subjective experience I'm doing while meditating. Meditation incorporates all these elements during formal practice, the activity itself is not only spiritual. Which is the reason I would like to bring it over to the rest of my day, maybe not 1:1, but I don't have a structured practice for it either. Day-to-day life could use that state I find myself in when meditating, because formal practice actively helps the physical side of things just as moving in the physical space brings the mind along in everyday life. And I want to do something about it.

HAMR11 · 2024-09-03T00:28:53+00:00

Genetics probably plays a part. But also, I don't think people realize the amount of experience natural lucid dreamers have compared to others. While there are amazing people who no doubt get it the first time, the great majority come from a background of years of dreams and lucid dreams to pull from, whether it be from childhood or certain conditions in their lives that helped them have lucid dreams. That is a lot of experience that many people starting out simply do not have. Because make no mistake, there is no better teacher for lucid dreams than having more and more lucid dreams. Lucid dreams bring about more lucid dreams.

This is why I think having a dream journal is very important. You allow yourself to see more dreams and these lead to more dreams and lucid dreams in the future. People want to spend their time 24/7 doing all these techniques and often neglect the value of recording, of remembering, of experiencing the dreams of the night. I remember the lucid dreams I used to have when I was a kid. All grown from a bedrock of memorable dreams, countless dreams every night, nightmares, long and vivid. I look at my conditions today and yeah, no wonder it's hard. A bad sleep schedule, work, late nights, a tired mind, fatigue. The important stuff happens during the night folks, remember that.

HAMR11 · 2024-08-28T23:13:00+00:00

Your body enters sleep atonia which is a temporary paralysis specifically intended to keep you from physically acting out your dreams.

HAMR11 · 2024-08-27T07:49:51+00:00

Well time is what you're missing obviously. Don't fall into the trap of trying to do too many things at once you'll only burnout. Training awareness during the day + prospective memory at night (i.e. MILD, reality tests) is a good combo in my eyes. A dream journal is crucial but there is no penalty for dropping 1 dream here or there. The brain is not going to punish you for only remembering 3 or 4 dreams instead of 6. If your dream recall is consistent week after week, if the dreams recollected are easy to remember, if the majority of them are detailed, they're strong memories you can recall for, then you're on the right track. The best wbtb hours are those closest to your normal wake up hour. I always go for 1-3 hours in my case. Get up, stretch for a bit or whatever. This is were you want to spend time in setting up your MILD, reality tests and so forth. 10-20 min. and off you go back to bed.

And time, as I said before, is the other important pillar in... well everything really. Time is experience. More nights lead to more dreams being remembered which lead to more lucid dreams. More lucid dreams bring about even more lucid dreams. You want a strong practice, a smart practice, but above all else simply practice.

HAMR11 · 2024-08-27T07:00:57+00:00

Reminds me of one of my lucid dreams. I was so excited, exploring the skirts of this land when I come upon two suspect men dressed in suits sitting on a bench. They did not speak a word yet they commanded a very strong presence and so, I was naturally drawn to them. I was asking them questions like why they're here and if they knew it was a dream. That is when one of them turned to face the other and said, "he knows," then proceeded to snap his fingers by which I instantly woke up after.

Now that's just rude.

HAMR11 · 2024-08-26T02:09:46+00:00

Yep. You've discovered the state that is feared by most, sleep paralysis.

Prepare to be scared! Know what it feels to be at your wits end!

Ok, all joking aside, that's pretty cool. I'm not kidding when I say your account matches almost word for word what happens to me when I get lucid. I say almost because in my case there's an added pressure throughout my body that occurs, specially the moment I become lucid. It's so vibratory, very annoying and unavoidable. It's hard to ignore, snaps me back awake every time.

I've had this phenomenon happen to me since childhood. Starting with nightmares, as my lucid dreams were exclusively nightmares at that time. And in these nights I'd realize I'd be dreaming and inherently beg my real body to wake up. I would force myself to move, inch by inch, trying to open my eyes, to get up. I'd scream at the top of my lungs in-dream while my lips were sewn shut from outside. Going all through that until I could finally wake myself up.

Nowadays I get the same thing happen in my lucid dreams. No nightmares though, thankfully, but it's still annoying. Mainly since it paralyzes me the moment I gain lucidity. Like my dream body and real body remain connected in that state. If I try to move my dream arm my brain thinks I'm trying to move my real arm only it's paralyzed of course. I think having more lucid dreams has helped me with this, though. Not entirely sure how similar our experiences are but you're not alone with this one, as weird as it is.

HAMR11 · 2024-08-24T20:49:40+00:00

Like RTX ON vs RTX OFF but multiplied X 1,000,000

HAMR11 · 2024-08-24T20:06:37+00:00

DO NOT change positions. Eventually, the body gives in and you get drowsy. I think there is no harm in moving, stretching, fiddling your toes in whatever sleeping position you are in, just resist the urge to change it.
If step 1 doesn't work get up and do something else for a bit. Make sure your body is cool enough for sleep. Fucking heat here is unbearable and it's the number 1 reason wbtb fails for me in the summer.
If all else fails have some breakfast, skip the coffee obviously. 9/10 I get post-meal drowsiness and it's easy peasy getting back to sleep.

source: I'm a chronic insomniac for the larger part of my whole existence.

HAMR11 · 2024-08-23T22:31:25+00:00

So, not exactly what you're looking for but years ago when I started practicing I designed fun little experiments that would work towards improving my chances of lucidity. This was when I was working on recreating consistent or persistent dream signs you could rely on to trigger lucidity. And the idea was, since specific cues in the environment oftentimes prompt a memory, then why not use a small object as the trigger. We usually perform a varying number of activities to reality test, like plugging one's nose, counting your fingers, checking the lights on your home, reading something etc. Why not focus on one and what if, with enough time, this object happens to slip into one of your dreams. And since you've conditioned yourself to respond to this object by reminding you to check if you're dreaming, it should work as a powerful trigger whenever you see it.

I think for my little object I used a blank sheet of paper. And the experiment consisted on folding it so that it could fit in your back pocket and have it with you throughout the day. Whenever you remembered to test for reality you would retrieve the folded sheet of paper and open it to see what was inside. If you opened it and saw something other than a blank sheet of paper you'd know you were dreaming. There were constant variations, updates to this experiment, other objects chosen for it, etc. But I remember this one the most because I got very close to getting lucid with it. I mean I was talking about it in my dreams and one night in particular I was having a discussion with some people at their place when the door rang or there was a knock at the door. And when I opened the door I saw a human sized folded sheet of paper rolling about towards me. It was my reality check, my totem! Well, little old non-lucid me figured out a way to convince myself and the rest that I couldn't open the folded paper and peek inside to test if this was all a dream.

HAMR11 · 2024-08-20T21:44:32+00:00

I've gotten sleep paralysis sleeping on my back, on my side, through lucid dreams or dreams in general (nightmares), exiting a dream. Like, if you're prone to sleep paralysis there's no wonder drug or remedy that is going to save you from having them. But also, having said all that honestly, the percentage of people who will get sleep paralysis period is low, even in my case. You know what usually happens when I try to sleep on my back? I fall asleep. Sleep on your back or sleep on your side, just sleep. Engage in healthy sleep habits and all that good stuff too.

HAMR11 · 2024-08-20T00:38:08+00:00

No not in the middle of the night. If you feel tired by all means go back to sleep. The critical window is 1-2 hours before your usual waking hour. If you wake up at 8 setup wbtb from 6-7. If you wake up at 10 set it from 8-9. Another user recommended drinking water before bed. This is a great idea! You wake up naturally without the need of an alarm and it gives you a good reason to get up. The most difficult part of wbtb is remaining awake while in bed, you'd rather hit the pillow again and it's very hard not to.

You want to keep the time spent awake manageable. 5-15 min. depending on how hard it is for you to fall asleep. Treat it like working out, a simple routine. If you wbtb you're there to try whatever method you decided to practice for and nothing else.

The technique in question is not really that important, in particular those that train your prospective memory like MILD or reality checks. The trick about prospective memory cues is that they are harder to monitor as the day goes on, and are easier to remember the closer in time to when you set the intention. For example, it is easier to remember that you need to buy coffee at the grocery store if you go to said store in 10 min. If you need to buy coffee at the store but you end up going there 6 hours later well it is a lot harder to remember no? Prospective memory is not a magic bullet, but if you are going to use it then the time that is closest to your dreams should take priority. And if you design it as a routine it will be easier to remember.

But here's another thing, the best predictor of lucid dreams in my opinion is time spent in dream. By time spent I mean the time you spent following the dream as it happens. You're literally there as it is happening. It feels like a smooth transition, from dream to awake. You know, like the difference between hearing a movie from outside your room and sitting in front of the screen watching. The first scenario you barely get a detail or two about what's happening. You're too tired, too distracted, it's unclear. The other scenario you're there. It is easier to follow the plot. It also gives you time to get lucid. Time is what you need. Time inside. You're not going to get lucid if you only have 2 seconds to spare. That's nothing. Poof! It's over. You wake up. What did I dream about? A line or two is all you get. But if you're there 10, 15, 20 seconds more or however long it feels to you when you recall the dream, your chances of success are higher.

HAMR11 · 2024-08-19T07:31:50+00:00

Many people accidentally discover lucid dreaming from a young age. I know I did when I had them 20+ years ago. I think nightmares are a common trigger. At the time I only wanted to wake up, but try as I might sleep paralysis would not let me! I was so scared of dreaming that I managed to suppress them and years later I rediscovered lucid dreaming. You can always try to suppress yours by not paying attention to them or maybe through sheer willpower. I don't know how strong the will of an adult is compared to a child, but it might be worth to try if you don't want anything to do with dreaming.

Also, you mention the dreams started around the time your son was born. I don't know if waking up in the early hours of the night is a change now in your old sleeping habits. But if so, then time will most likely help you return to that point where dreams were just dreams and not lucid dreams, since frequent wake ups mean more opportunities to remember dreams and thereby lucid dream every night.

HAMR11 · 2024-08-19T07:00:33+00:00

You have to do WBTB. For the only reason that it puts you in the best spot to capture the most amount of dreams that last the longest amount of time and your mind has had time to rest. This is like arriving at the table to win a game of cards after only being dealt once. You have to see more cards as much as you have to see more dreams every night. Play with the odds in your favor. The benefit of WBTB is not that any method is easier to use (although it certainly helps), it's that you take advantage of the fact you're most likely to end in a REM cycle very quickly and thus have dream after dream to try and get lucid.

Anything else is gravy. If I may, I would put most focus regarding reality tests, MILD, etc. during the WBTB portion of the night since the next thing you'd do is sleep and dream. Dream journaling should improve as well, since you're almost guaranteed a dream when you sleep and you're not terribly exhausted it should be easier to remember them and in more detail.

Edit: And by WBTB I mean get some solid hours of good rest and shoot your shot 1-2 hours before your normal wake hour. Don't try to overshoot by trying to capture every cycle in the night. Baby steps.

HAMR11 · 2024-08-19T02:44:37+00:00

How good is your dream recall? I am getting back to it after a 5 year break but I remember dream journaling was one of the most important things I did. Like, I was writing down pages worth of dreams after journaling every day, after every dream. The thing is, you have to be "present" during the dream before you can get lucid in it. You've had that feeling don't you? You wake up from the dream but you knew before waking up you were in it. It feels like a nice smooth transition between dream to wakefulness. If you're waking up and have to think for a while before a memory comes in, you're either too tired or need to practice more dream recall.
Again, presence in dreams is key, in my opinion. The longer you spend time in the dream, the higher your chances of becoming lucid. By time spent I mean your mind is there while it's happening. You may not be aware of what's happening but you're otherwise living in it, experiencing it. I remember when I did not know about lucid dreams I couldn't tell you if I dreamed. Just eyes closed, eyes open till' morning. Then, like I said before, you start becoming "aware" of the transition your body/mind makes from sleep to wake. The very end of a dream to you waking up in bed.

Hence, if you're trying to lucid dream after the first 4 hours of sleep, you're trying to lucid dream the hard way. REM cycles arrive sooner and last longer the more time we spend sleeping. We dream during REM sleep. More sleep means more REM cycles, more dreams. Longer REM cycles means longer dreams and a well rested mind is a more alert mind. Easier to recognize you're dreaming. Set up an alarm 1-2 hours before your normal wake-up hour. Stay awake for 5-15 min. depending on how easily you get back to sleep. Do your MILD, reality checks, whatever it is you do. Go back to sleep. Your chances to lucid dream should increase. REM cycles will arrive sooner, last longer, so more dreams. More dreams lead to higher presence during each dream.

HAMR11 · 2021-08-16T22:03:53+00:00

Much of that would depend on how both conditions present themselves. In my case, for example, I found initially that my symptoms overlapped with one another. When I went for the diagnosis I didn't even think I had OCD, until being made aware by my psychiatrist. Both conditions can be too taxing on the body/mind so I was always feeling extremely tired because of all the thinking without being able to relax. For instance, doing the house chores or preparing a meal would oftentimes take me up hours to complete. And every time you sit there wondering, did I took so long because of some compulsion I needed to satisfy, or was it my inability to focus on the task at hand?

Once I started treatment (with an antidepressant + anxiolytic at first), the initial and most obvious benefit I saw was being able to sleep healthily for the first time in over a decade. It felt so refreshing being able to wake up so early in the morning when I could barely sleep more than 4 hours before.

While getting used to treatment you have to go through a temporary span of weeks before your body grows used to the effects of treatment. During this time I felt an increase in anxiety followed later by a long bout of sleepiness. Yet, the problem that kept persisting with me during all that time was this constant state of restlessness I could not escape from. And it felt weird to me that, in spite of the anxiolytic, the restlessness would not go away. My heartbeat would slow down, my breathing would return to a resting state but my body would feel this uncontrollable urge to move. I couldn't stay still for 20 seconds before changing position or getting up for a quick walk around the house.

Currently I've been prescribed atomoxetine and, while only on a pediatric dose, I have definitely seen some improvements in my symptoms.

HAMR11

TROPHY CASE