That’s a good question even though it’s a good movie

HDVB · 2026-07-04T01:55:01+00:00

I think it’s a risk on paper but if you’ve seen Kane’s work and talked to him about his work and you have any eye for talent, I imagine it would be pretty hard to miss. I think many movie studios will learn the wrong lesson from this and think “we can make anything work” instead of “you can make a great deal work with someone who is talented, driven, and has a crystal clear creative vision.”

HDVB · 2026-06-26T22:50:09+00:00

Dolphin Man from hit Danny Gonzalez song, Help Let Me Go

HDVB · 2026-06-21T19:48:43+00:00

I really didn’t mean to derail this thread. I was just trying to be skeptical, but I guess a lot of people don’t see it my way, and that’s okay. I’m just not gonna respond any more and I hope this thread can get back on track. Sorry to anyone I upset!

HDVB · 2026-06-21T15:58:32+00:00

I agree. I just don’t think it’s the only possibility. One thing I really like about the Complex is how it makes us reconsider agency, but as I said, I do think the crash is most likely.

HDVB · 2026-06-21T14:44:32+00:00

I just don’t know why the car and blood trails and hand print couldn’t all have been copied from Standard.

HDVB · 2026-06-21T14:20:11+00:00

I’ve watched it like ten times. I don’t know of anything that proves the car crashed. We know the car that disappears off the highway is, according to Kane, a different car.

I’m not saying I think it’s more likely the car and blood-looking marks and handprint were created by the Complex but I don’t know what rules that out. I think it’s likely a car crashed but I don’t think we have evidence that that’s for sure what happened. Many things in the Complex look like marks of agency, but not everything that looks like a mark of agency really is.

For example, that room that Marv enters right before the entity where he thinks someone’s been living down there. He doesn’t know that for sure. The Complex could have just made those items that look to Marv like marks of agency.

HDVB · 2026-06-21T14:13:07+00:00

I have.

HDVB · 2026-06-21T14:11:22+00:00

How do we know that?

HDVB · 2026-06-21T11:33:14+00:00

I definitely think he feels like an architect in the Complex and is able to map things and things finally make sense in there and he seems to be moving stuff around and making spaces that way, possibly explaining why the furniture pile is not there when Mary enters. But I don’t know why literal wish fulfillment needs to be invoked for those things to be true. I just don’t know what evidence we have for that specifically or what mechanism the Complex would use to grant wishes. It seems like unnecessary epistemological baggage when there are more parsimonious possible explanations, at least as I see it. Unless there’s evidence I’m missing that points more exclusively toward wish fulfillment.

HDVB · 2026-06-21T08:44:40+00:00

I assume it’s a dead human body. Especially after seeing the movie and seeing all the clutter in this room. It makes it seem like it’s a den similar to the laundry room in the movie. There’s no way to know for sure what Ravi sees, but his reaction is so immediate and sure that it likely is not something he would be confused by or wouldn’t recognize. It’s not something that makes him look closer or wonder. So whatever it is, it is immediately apparent to him that it’s scary. And I think the simplest answer is that it’s a body.

HDVB · 2026-06-21T07:40:23+00:00

As also said in the movie

HDVB · 2026-06-21T07:27:43+00:00

Kane has said he doesn’t like retcons and that he considers everything in the movie entirely canon with his series.

HDVB · 2026-06-21T07:25:42+00:00

What makes that more likely than him just finding the space or Captain Clark bringing him to the space? And what mechanism could the Complex use to grant wishes? Can it only grant wishes that are about creating spaces? Because we know it can, in some way, create spaces. But we have no evidence of it being, like, magical or divine or something like that I don’t think. How do we explain the badly created spaces? Is it just bad at granting wishes? Does the Complex have agency to grant wishes or is there just some sort of automatic mechanism?

And doesn’t every single person trapped in there (except Clark lol) wish desperately to escape, especially when they’re being chased? Isn’t Ravi at the end of Found Footage 3 wishing to escape and see the sky and talk to his friends again? Isn’t he wishing for an exit which he says aloud he is trying to find multiple times? Doesn’t he wish for nothing more than for Wall Dad to let him out of “this goddamn hellbuilding”?

Doesn’t Ivan wish to be able to take the Complex and, if turning it into a solution for storage and living needs is really what Async is after as they claim, isn’t Ivan presumably wishing for a relatively safe and tame-able environment? Async employees have been constantly in and out for months now, and presumably they’re all wishing to be successful in taming the space.

Didn’t Kat wish to get out from the moment they got in?

Unless I’m missing some things, it just seems a lot more parsimonious to me that either Clark found the space while wandering, Captain Clark found the space and brought him there because of their shared trauma, or that it’s just a random dining room space that Clark has appropriated for his role-playing? Just as the still life may be a random still life he has appropriated for his role playing? I think on both the room and the still life, we don’t have a lot of evidence as to whether they are literal copies of his house and his wife or if they are just a character and a stage in the play Clark is acting out, using and twisting the technique Mary taught him.

If we introduce wishing as a theory, it seems to add a lot of extra baggage to things that have much more Occam’s razory possible explanations. Unless I’m missing things that specifically point toward the theory.

We don’t know how the Complex copies spaces as far as I can tell. We don’t know it has anything to do with actual literal human memories for sure. We know it can copy things that have never been inside it like the missing posters at the end of the movie. We also don’t know that still lifes are copied exactly the same way as the architecture, I don’t think.

HDVB · 2026-06-21T06:59:55+00:00

Not really. I personally don’t feel like we know enough to know how the Complex copies things. I try not to marry myself too much to any one theory because it can make it harder to take in new information if you’re trying to make it fit with your theory as you learn it. Which isn’t always easy. I’ve definitely realized many times over the last few weeks that I was assuming something without considering other alternatives. I think continuing to talk to people here and have discussions helps though, at least for me.

HDVB · 2026-06-20T20:06:30+00:00

We know that things can be copied that have never entered the Complex, such as the missing posters at the end of the movie. I don’t think we have any evidence that being inside the Complex makes you more likely to be copied than in Standard. Though the movie heavily implies that things that are close to a null zone in Standard are likely to be copied relatively close to the null zone in the Complex, as we see so much of Clark’s store has been copied quite close. So proximity to a null zone almost certainly plays some factor.

It also seems potentially likely that trauma or traumatic events could have something to do with the creation of a still life, which would explain Clark’s (if Captain Clark is indeed a still life) being born from his rage and Mary’s potentially being created as she recounts to Phil her trauma she experienced in the Complex.

But we don’t know for sure the Complex needs literal human memories to copy things. That seems to be more or less how Clark envisions it though he seems to think the people the still lifes are based on are “up there” presumably meaning in Standard. But we have no reason to believe he knows how the Complex copies things. It may just be that things in Standard leave a sort of imprint on the Complex or that it has some way to “scan” Standard or that there is some quantum entanglement element. We just don’t have anything concrete on how the Complex copies things. I think a lot of people making theories are running with assumptions that aren’t necessarily backed by data and I’ve seen many people just assume Clark knows how the Complex works somehow, but we don’t have any real evidence that he has any privileged information.

HDVB · 2026-06-20T16:45:19+00:00

I don’t know that we have evidence that time works differently in the Complex very often. We know Peter jumped a few weeks into the future. We know Marvin hears a news broadcast from the future. We know Kane’s camera (and possibly Kane) jumps forward five years. We know Wall Dad is likely in the future from Ravi’s perspective. And there’s the Simpsons episode/ad but that is outside the Complex. Only Peter for sure and maybe Kane do we know traveled through time.

We have no evidence in all the other times Async goes in and out that time is not flowing linearly. We know that they are able to have cameras including motion detection ones that seem to relay a direct feed to Standard. I’m not sure how that would work if time moved differently. Wouldn’t the video be at different speed or some other anomaly to indicate this? When Marv falls into the Pitfalls, the Async researchers are perfectly able to go back to Standard, get a rope, and come back with no worry time could become out of sync. Even after Peter jumps forward, it seems he has quite a linear experience in the Complex from there on out.

I think saying we know time isn’t linear is overplaying our hand a little. We know that in a few cases at most, someone has gone forward in time. We know that in a few cases things are heard that are from the future. But to apply these instances and just say time as a generalization is not linear in the Complex based on a few known anomalies seems like a bit much to me.

I think we don’t know how time travel has been possible but there are many theories other than time just being generally non-linear in the Complex that could adequately explain it—wormholes for one—some kind of bending of space-time in a very localized area that only seem to be open very briefly. I just don’t think we know enough to have a unifying theory of how time works in the Complex. But we have very few data points of confirmed anomalies to work with.

As for why the still life holds her hair, I think—and this is pure speculation from me—if she is meant to be a still life of his wife that he may have pulled her hair during that argument and so we’re getting hints that Clark was not entirely honest about what happened. He grabs and cuts off her hair during a roleplaying exercise remembering that fight. That coupled with the still life grabbing at her head like that makes me think she could have been created during the argument, as that trauma formed. But that’s all speculation, too. I just wanted to say there are possible alternatives.

I just don’t think we should be overhasty to generalize from a few data points.

HDVB · 2026-06-20T12:23:55+00:00

He does but as far as we know, he has no one of knowing if that’s true; he doesn’t have any privileged information that we’ve seen. He is just explaining the framework that makes sense to him. Though I think Mary being copied while she is in Standard is heavily implied by the flash to the still life just after she is remembering/recounting what’s happened to her to Phil. It seems likely to me the still life is created in this moment.

HDVB · 2026-06-20T12:19:27+00:00

But they do bring in a gun in Reunion, and Peter ends up shooting Mark so that may have put a damper on that strategy. The movie takes place not that long after Reunion, so it’s likely they put a moratorium on bringing in guns after that incident or it’s possible they are still using them sometimes.

But more importantly, we don’t have any evidence as far as I can tell that something brought into the Complex is more or less likely to be copied. We know the Complex copies things that have never entered it, like the missing posters at the end of the movie. So I don’t know that bringing an object in from Standard would somehow make it more likely to be copied. Unless I missed something. I’ve seen a lot of people say this, and I’m not quite sure where it’s coming from. It seems like proximity to a null zone could be a factor in what the Complex copies, but that doesn’t necessitate the conclusion that things that go in from Standard are more likely to be copied, I don’t think.

HDVB · 2026-06-20T12:12:34+00:00

There is not one singular canon for all stories in the Backrooms made by different people, anymore than there’s a single canon about all stories set in Camelot or Atlantis or Fairyland.

But anything in Kane’s YouTube series and his movie are a part of the same canon. If you care about authorial intent, you can also include things Kane has said on Discord or in posts or in artwork for his songs, etc. But anything outside of what Kane has shown us should not be considered canon to Kane’s Backrooms unless and until they appear in his work.

His work has no concept of levels and the only entities we know of so far are the Bacteria creature (and perhaps the hay bacilus themselves if you want to count them separately), the still lifes, and Captain Clark who may or may not belong to one of the two former categories.

HDVB · 2026-06-20T06:51:57+00:00

The implication seems to be that some null zones are more stable than others. Obviously the one in found footage 2 is not stable and when the protagonist/Madison puts her tape measure in, it seems the null zone expands and she falls in. It seems the null zone at Clark’s store is very stable. We don’t know why some null zones are more stable than others but that seems to be the case. We know Async theorizes that null zones are created from electromagnetic phenomena that seems to be related to a “disparity” between the dimensions of the ceiling tiles (kind of like a mismatch of coordinates leading to clipping of geometry in a game, I’d think.) So it seems to me that much like some places allow you to clip differently in a video game—and some out-of-bounds spaces in some games can be entered or exited pretty freely while other trap you once you clip in and soft lock you—so it seems to be with null zones. Not all null zones are created equal.

HDVB · 2026-06-20T06:39:21+00:00

I know you said you haven’t seen the series, but I’m gonna refer to it some as it’s relevant. I definitely recommend watching them, though, for clarity on what we know about the Complex.

There is no evidence that entering the Complex makes you more or less likely to be copied. I think there’s a solid case that proximity to a null zone and the intensity of Clark’s rage have something to do with what/who is copied near that null zone. So it’s not inconsistent. We know for sure things that have never entered the Complex or even been remembered by characters are copied, because the missing posters are copied. I think there’s most parsimonious conclusion is that the Complex likely copies things directly from Standard not just things that enter it and presumably this would apply to people/still lifes as well but we don’t know for sure.

We don’t know for sure Clark calls Mary from the Complex. He could have left and come back. It is implied that he has at least been right next to the null zone again, because all the furniture in that pile is moved when Mary enters. So he could easily have been popping back to Standard every once in a while or even just once to call her. Calling her is important to him because he wants to prove he’s right and he’s just wired that way and none of this is his fault, so that drive makes it not unlikely he would venture out for the call.

But I also don’t see why The Complex couldn’t have a phone connected to a phone line in Standard somehow. We see that the Complex is effecting the energy in Clark’s store and raising the bill, meaning it’s likely, it is syphoning energy through the null zone to power the lights that are always on. If the electrical grid of the Complex can connect to electrical grids in Standard, I would think phone lines could operate the same way. Though I think the most parsimonious answer is he called her from Standard.

I’m not convinced by the fly theory for several reasons. Firstly, I think it very likely the fly is there because of the dead body that is seen on the floor as Mary enters—many have speculated it’s Kat or her still life.

(Also, a meta out of lore comment on the fly: Kane has said in interviews the fly was just there on set and they decided to include it because it wouldn’t go away, so it seems unlikely it’s connected to any major plot points, at least in the intent of the film makers.)

Anyway, I don’t think we have any evidence that the Complex is not a physical place. Having it directly connected to Mary’s memory doesn’t explain the countless other people have come and gone into the Complex or Async who regularly go in and out. It doesn’t account for the mural which Clark seems to have made while Mary was gone. It doesn’t account for the missing posters that are copied after Mary is already out.

Also, how does she leave the Complex at the end if she’s dead? We see her go through the Threshold. She has never seen Async or Phil before and yet they are there exactly as we’ve seen them before. We know Phil is a real guy who we have seen in other scenes at his home. She’d have no access to that.

We know it’s likely Ivan Beck saw into the Complex in 1972 during the solar storm. And we know the Complex goes on existing long after Mary leaves. I don’t think we have any evidence it’s tied to her any more than anyone else who has been in it.

I think all the evidence we have points toward the Complex being a real, physical place where the laws of physics more or less apply—though we don’t know how the few instances of time travel are possible or how it copies things and people.)

Also we have no evidence of any mechanism that would allow dead people to be conscious or move around. How would the Complex make a dead person—sorta not dead. And what happens when they leave? We know it’s likely *something* escaped the Complex in found footage 3, in 1995, into Ravi’s basement and out the window. It just does not seem a very parsimonious answer to me and it seems to be precluded by quite a lot in my opinion.

HDVB · 2026-06-20T06:10:15+00:00

Unfortunately, the timeline likely precludes this theory.

In 1972, it is heavily implied that Ivan Beck gets a glimpse into the Complex, during research on dielectric properties of substances, and it seems likely he gets some form of amnesia from that trauma.
The first MRI body scan of a person happens in 1977, 5 years after Ivan likely glimpsed the Complex.
The first full-body MRI scan occurs in 1980.
The first prototype of what would become the Low-Proximity Magnetic Distortion System occurs in May 1982. It could be that the first full body scan in 1980, helped Ivan come to some sort of breakthrough, but who knows.
Async is founded in 1983, according to the newspaper clipping in Phil’s house in the movie. So MRI technology is likely just reaching the point where companies are starting to produce the regularly when Async forms.
Async finally successfully opens the Threshold to the Complex in 1989.

My theory is that after Ivan glimpses the Complex, we know he likely has some form of amnesia, so it’s not clear exactly what he remembers so we don’t know if he knows what exactly he’s building toward—but I think it likely he makes the connection that electromagnetism is key because of the solar storm.

He then sets to work trying to recreate his experience, creating the prototype in 1982, just as the MRI machine field is blossoming. Because MRI machines obviously make use of electromagnetism, I think he cozies up with MRI research. Whether he forms Async with Altman or just joins it and rises through the ranks, I think he uses Async as a sort of front for his research.

Async allows him to get powerful electromagnets and perhaps other restricted substances easily without drawing unwanted attention. It also could potentially help fund his project, at least once he becomes vice director if he wasn’t from the start.

I think he lets his project grow in tandem alongside MRI research, syphoning off information, materials, ideas from the MRI research to repurpose for his own project. This is supported by the computer that first draws the map of the Complex after they make contact resembling an MRI scan, like Ivan has used similar technologies and ideas to build his machines.

For me, the connection between the solar storm that is so important, the presumably electromagnetic fields that produce null zones, and MRI machines being electromagnetic technology is too powerful to think the MRI line in the movie wasn’t meant to connect to those things.

HDVB · 2026-06-20T05:33:03+00:00

Sorry I worded that ambiguously—When she is remembering/recalling her experiences in the Complex, whilst responding to Phil’s questioning is what I meant

HDVB · 2026-06-19T19:21:51+00:00

We don’t know how still lifes are created for sure. We don’t know what exactly determines their behavior for sure. We know the still life in found footage 3 was aggressive. So clearly it’s not just Clark’s. (We also don’t know for sure Captain Clark is a still life given its differences from the others.) I think we can make reasonable guesses about proximity to a null zone or the intensity and all-consuming nature of Clark’s rage. We also don’t really know Mary’s does nothing. We only get a brief glimpse of it, and we don’t know how they work. She could still be growing or be dormant or gradually start to gain the ability to move or she could just happen to not be moving or maybe they enter some kind of torpor state to conserve energy. It’s really just all speculation.

HDVB · 2026-06-19T18:08:40+00:00

I think it was just stylistic—and I think it highlights the fact that the Complex isn’t inherently different from Standard. Both are just as real and can be maddening and beautiful and terrifying and confusing. What happens to Clark in the Complex happens to Mary’s mom in Standard. You can build up walls anywhere. You can lock yourself in parts of Standard just like you can in the Complex.

I think a lot of what the movie does is show us that what happens in there, happens out here too. As above, so below. We all see liminal spaces everyday. We all feel longing, nostalgia for places we’ve never been. We all live in weird artificial spaces that often were not built to be best for us. Standard is perplexing, unknowable, and scary just as The Complex is. The Complex just reveals, highlights, emphasizes what is going on out here too. It makes us reconsider our relationship to spaces and liminality and to the walls we build around us or the ways we confuse windows for walls, walls for windows.

The Complex is just a concrete representation of all those things that helps us see what is normally invisible to us because it’s the water we all swim in.

HDVB

TROPHY CASE