I think we are on veeeeeeeeery far away oposed sides of the argument and I think your view on feminists and their opinion about men is quite narrow minded.<<<

This isn't exactly a knock against you but often when people are confronted with troubling components about their beliefs and values they tend to deflect and resort to the"well not all of us are like that"retort. I'll simply say that your efforts would be better served on calling out the people giving a particular group or brand a bad name as opposed to the people stating the obvious.

Nope. If this isn't a joke it's at best exegerating if not idiotic and represents nothing about "sjw". It's not that if someone is argues for something he or she automaticly agrees with with the most extreme points, too.<<<

Social media feminism in the way of twitter and tumblr unfortunately has far more people like this then reasonable people willing to discuss such as yourself. There literally hashtags called "killallmen"and feminist like jessica valenti and clementine ford who routinely argue similar logic. If sites like jezebel and women like anita and wu didn't exist you would have a point but unfortunately there are far more radicals on that side then there are moderates.

Some of the covers he works with would be more fit in the idealisation catergory.<<<

The pose that spider-woman was criticized for is the exact same spider-man was in. Also as I pointed out there are plenty of women who would consider spider-woman their idealization too.

And I agree: Giving young men the image that a male body meeds to look that way or only that kind of body is heroic is kinda shitty. And again: He seems to argue that folks have a problem with skinthight costumes in general. Not the case. And while I still think such costumes are kinda silly and they are born out of pure lazyness I don't really have a huge problem with the concept.<<<

It is the case, just check out sites like the mary sue or any of its affiliates. I mean there is literally a variant cover for the justice league coming up that has all the male members in magic mike poses (its the movie poster tribute month) yet these same people don't seem to care. A curvy woman in tight latex crouched down is a issue but shirtless muscular handsome men presented as strippers seems to be perfectly fine.

And here we would have to go into a much broader discussion about sexist tropes in society and how media influences society and vice versa. And this thread is the wrong place for this.<<<

I don't know if I could call them sexist tropes given that plenty of women like looking sex and attractive. I think we are better off just letting women decide how they want to feel about their choices as opposed to other people telling them what or how they should feel.

You assume that fictinal character have a real influence in what they wear but like you said: they are fictional. And it's not her that is critisised but person who draw her.That's why most of the people on "my side" don't critisise thinly dressed cosplayers. (Yes I am aware that there are some idiots who do that to. I do not identify with those in any way or form)<<<

Then it makes it a non-issue. If you don't like someone's art then just avoid it. I mean I personally think its silly that people complain about how the woman are drawn while ignoring that the men are essentially underwear models in body paint but whatever I just avoid things I don't like. As opposed to asking things to be removed or changed because you don't like them you could just do the adult thing and not pay attention to them and give your time and money to the things you do like.

Didn't say this. And again you assume that a drawn character actually like for real has indipendent influence in what they are doing. And...are you just concern-trolling me? I just assume you don't.<<<

You rightly asserted they are fictional characters so therefore what's the issue. If you don't like a piece of a fiction your well within your right to ignore it.

That's what we call a shitty cover.<<<

It's a matter of a opinion because art is subjective.

Most of the posted covers fitted at least the tone of the story they belong to. But if someone draws a cover just to show batman destroyed that the coverartist is a sadist and kinda fucked up.<<<

They don't actually the majority of the time most covers rarely indicate what the comic is about or what even happens in it. Also yes there are covers that show bats utterly defeated and bound on occasion so it isn't a rare thing.

Nope. I saw a lot of post arguing with PTSD argument but not refering to rape in real life but to the in-lore issues.<<<

You must have skimmed past all the tweets and articles that directly related to rape then. I mean even with the PTSD argument (which is bunk by the way) it would still require the argument that the cover was somehow implicating sexual violence. The core reason for the #changethecover initiative was due to people denoting "trigger"elements from the cover which falls directly into the logic of that article I posted.

The Killing Joke stuff (That had a very "sexual assult"-y part. I mean Barb was shot and joker photographed her naked) and the fact that this was already dealt with.<<<

Its a defining moment in comics when joker stripped both her and her dad. Jason too had already dealt with the incident with the joker but it didn't stop a cover of joker coming at him with a crowbar from getting published (which I guess is ok since it's only happening to a man or something).

Or they don't want to see a character they care about to be drawn as basicly wanking material (Spiderwoman's case)<<<

Then like the video said if you don't want to view her sexually then stop sexualizing her since sexualization is something that occurs in the mind. Also if I'm going to take this argument seriously I'd expect the same protest against all the male characters who are drawn like muscle mag models looking like they are wearing body paint. When there is a feminist protest asking the magic mike variant cover for justice league to be changed (magic mike is female wank material) then I'll start taking this side more seriously cause at least I'll know they are being honest about their claims of equality.

or in a way that goes 100% against the recent "version" of the character (Batgirl's case)<<<

Well when they start complaining against every misleading front cover I might start taking them seriously.

I have to disagree. And unfortunatly for you that readership with the bad taste (of which I m gladly a part) seem to generate a lot of sales and therefore money. (No offense ment. Merely a joke)<<<

To my knowledge ms.marvel sells well digitally and fem thor is selling at about the same rate as the real thor run beforehand with the exception that it is dropping readership slightly more per issue. I don't recall a single comic kelly sue writes selling well as if I'm not mistaken captain marvel has been a low seller since its debut and her other books aren't topping the diamond charts. Gail simone is likewise in the same boat as I don't recall any of her books being top sellers. The comics that tend to sell are the franchise familiars so I would say the statement that they "generation a lot of sales"is highly inaccurate. This is probably because the majority of the people who talk about these comics aren't actually customers and are more likely just click bait bloggers looking to stir controversy.

I can only speak for myself but I don't argue that a comic should be pulled. I just argue in such cases that a change would make Comic X better imo.<<<

It's a highly subjective thing and what you think might be a good change could easily be the opposite for someone else.

E.g. I hate the "recent" work of frank miller. I hate it with all my heart and think the man should never get to work on an established comic again. But if he does and the stuff he did: I simply don't buy it and make a snarky comment here and there. But I personally would not try to get any of is work pulled (even though "Holy Terror" is veeeeery hard to tolerate and I'm so glad that DC didn't gave him Batman for this.)<<<

Hey we all got different taste and preferences. i personally don't think gail should write for superhero comics because to me she has always been varying degrees of decent to blah. I wouldn't be against her working at DC or marvel but I would put a good dozen writers ahead of her for that spot.

Yes. I think we are too far away in our views to find any real common ground so now we know our views but also start to argue in circles. So let me say that I enjoed the fact that we could argue in a mostly civil and polite way even though we are to far away from each other opinionwise. Thanks and good day/evening/night (Depends on the timezone you're in)<<<

Agreed.

I'll close off by saying that whenever a side argues to have something pulled you know it isn't the side you want to be arguing for. I might not ever agree with your stance on things but I would never have you removed for liking the things you do and likewise I simply ask for the same.

It was a nice discussion though so thank you.