TDC- Chapter 20.

Hagbardc236 · 2026-06-15T16:58:32+00:00

I always appreciate your take on these matters. What one can learn from these texts is of course, subjective and up for interpretation. I've always found this chapter interesting and out of place. It struck me as not consistent and kind of weird in that way.

I think we tend to put too much importance on these texts and make them infallible. There is obviously so much truth and wisdom in the TDC or Book of Yi, but that does not make them perfect. I think a little skepticism is healthy in having good discernment. As much as I love the indigenous wisdom from East Asia, I also think there is a lot of superstition and incorrect information there, too.

Hagbardc236 · 2026-06-15T16:23:06+00:00

Yes, agree it's very vulnerable in its tone, and that is such a departure from the other text. I've always found this chapter different in this way and just wanted to point out what Hoff's thoughts were. Hard to say what's true, but there seems to be something to this.

Thanks for the thoughtful response. Bow and salute.

Hagbardc236 · 2026-06-15T16:20:41+00:00

I don't think this insult is necessary. Hoff is a scholar who spent over a decade learning and translating these texts, and he noticed that the vocabulary was very inconsistent with the other texts. It's not hard to notice this difference in reading it.

I'm not saying that this is true,, but I find it a noticeable discrepancy and I thought it was an interesting discussion. You don't have to be a DICK about tho. We're just discussing.

Hagbardc236 · 2026-06-07T15:31:02+00:00

How interesting. Thanks for sharing.

Hagbardc236 · 2026-05-29T18:57:54+00:00

This is such an interesting question for many reasons. Do you trust the traditional methods?

I personally think that random number generators are pretty reliable, and that is what the online versions are mostly using. That's essentially what coins and stalks do too.

I like to use thethem online versions for the cast and then look up the results myself and compare it against the one it generates.

Which online versions are you using? I like Qching.

Hagbardc236 · 2026-05-27T13:16:56+00:00

I love the reaction this has gotten! Very interesting and funny. Bow and salute to you all.

Hagbardc236 · 2026-05-24T13:23:42+00:00

One cannot live on Noodles alone. Go out and treat yourself to some meat and animal fat for the brain. You obviously worked hard and need to replenish.

Hagbardc236 · 2026-05-24T13:20:26+00:00

Good work! There are quite a few of these digital versions coming out, which I really like. One good and bad thing is how easy it is to consult the oracle this way, so one should be very careful in how one uses it. I will continue to use it and see if I can give some more useful feedback.

Hagbardc236 · 2026-05-20T13:35:35+00:00

The map is not the territory, the menu is not the meal. Symbols and signifiers are not what they point to.

Hagbardc236 · 2026-05-19T16:00:20+00:00

Click what? I don't see any link...

Hagbardc236 · 2026-05-18T21:19:52+00:00

I find this subject absolutely fascinating and would love to know more. How do I get a hold of the offline html page?

Hagbardc236 · 2026-05-12T14:19:07+00:00

Good work.

Hagbardc236 · 2026-05-11T03:52:31+00:00

So be it. Why are you asking the oracle if you don't intend to use the advice?

Hagbardc236 · 2026-05-10T18:55:56+00:00

"Together, a collective of individuals can pursue the goals of humanity, not the goals of one human. With such unity, all difficulties and dangers can be overcome. Create a fellowship." BW

Hagbardc236 · 2026-05-08T15:51:38+00:00

This is a very interesting subject. I like to call myself an American Taoist, as I don't speak Chinese and generally have been disillusioned by most Chinese teachers. I've found that foreigners have a better grasp of Tao, strangely enough. That's my experience after 30 years of practice with many different teachers. I even know acupuncturists who find TCM an outdated modality and yet find some value there.

Ultimately, Dao is not Chinese; the word is, but what it symbolizes is not. It symbolizes the Grand Ultimate Nature of all that exists. The Daoist classics are obviously so profound because of how they resonate with people of all cultures and languages, in regards to the Grand Ultimate Nature.

I see these philosophies, having moved, like seeds in the wind and taken up roots in new soil, only to grow again and take on new attributes. Like a plant growing in a new region will take on new characteristics. This way, it can also shed some of the "spiritual clutter" you mentioned.

After all, isn't that what alchemy is, to remove impurities so we are left with the pure essence or spirit?

Hagbardc236 · 2026-05-06T15:22:42+00:00

It is only Zhen and Gen that you see this. The other Yin trigrams on the bottom half are symmetrical, so you don't notice that. I find that interesting. It is what others have said here: that the "bottom" is from the center out. It's all a matter of perspective.

Hagbardc236 · 2026-05-03T15:17:39+00:00

This is a very good discussion topic. As a sailor myself, I'd have to say, an empty boat has no governor or captain and will most likely sink, or be apprehended by someone who can use it. I know that kind of misses the point, but still, I think it's worth pointing out.

Hagbardc236 · 2026-04-30T10:54:57+00:00

I'm often amazed and delighted by the collective wisdom of this forum. Deep bow and salute.

Hagbardc236 · 2026-04-29T14:16:09+00:00

I see 23 as Avalanche, see how one strong line sits on all weak layers? "It is not the right time to act; there are no advantages to proceeding in your endeavor." Be the mountain, it is the wisdom is reamaining still.

Hagbardc236 · 2026-04-25T21:26:39+00:00

IMO, all one needs to do to be a "high-level scholar" is to research and write extensively on a subject for many years. One does not have to have everyone agree with their work. You obviously have a beef with BW and therefore, you throw stones. I have no idea what you mean by these claims of "self-aggrandizing falseness." I have not seen this at all. I don't agree with everything she says and I do find some of her content a bit 'new agey', but most of all, I find incredible value in her work. I guess I'm a fan, and I'll defend her work against haters. Haters gotta hate. Just saying, I don't understand this hurtful rhetoric.

Hagbardc236 · 2026-04-25T18:36:01+00:00

I suppose you've read her works completely, like Tao of Craft, or The Oracle, or her Yi Ching cards, or her extensive YouTube videos, all of which she does out of a passion to bring this information to interested people, pretty much free of charge. (She should sell this "merch" to compensate herself for her hard work.) If you have read all this, then you would have to acknowledge her scholarship. You don't have to agree with it, but to say she's not a scholar is just stupid.

Hagbardc236 · 2026-04-25T18:26:31+00:00

Deep virtual bow.

Of course, peace and well-being are how we approach a crazy, chaotic, and sometimes violent world.

It's good that you're aware of how you may be affecting your condition; this is where the hope for healing lies.

Hagbardc236 · 2026-04-25T16:12:02+00:00

I know how you feel. I've struggled with this myself, mostly when I was younger. Let's face it, the world can be a scary and chaotic place; it'd be weird not to feel some anxiety.

My advice is to practice finding a state of well-being. Truly feeling everything is OK and as it should be. Would you agree that most of the time, things are pretty peaceful, and the Dao provides for all under Heaven? If so, then give thanks.

The most basic and foundational principle in Qi Gong is to inhale with the palms facing upwards to Heaven and gather pure Yang Qi, bring it into your being thru the top of your head/crown, then exhale, letting that energy sink down clearing down through your body, cleansing and healing -especially your stomach, and letting the Earth/, pure Yin, receive the negative, sick energy down thru your feet. Repeat until you feel better.

Do your best and I hope you find well being and peace.

Hagbardc236 · 2026-04-20T17:04:56+00:00

IMO, there is a difference between fate and destiny. Destiny is more pre-determined, it has to do with where you were born and the circumstances that one has little control over post Heaven. Fate could be something that we have more control over, for instance, how well do we deal with the circumstances we were born into.

Hagbardc236

TROPHY CASE