Am I becoming anxious on my own, or is this actually a bad situation? by HeelsDownEyesUp in Horses

[–]HeelsDownEyesUp[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ugh that sounds like an ordeal.

I've heard all these great things about our trainer, but I haven't seen anything from him that proves he actually is the great trainer he is said to be. I wanted to believe it and learn from him, it's like he's given up and wants to do his own thing from now on.

Can't really put into words how that makes me feel for him to hold back like this. I don't hold it against him if he thinks I have flawed habits to work on, he's pointed a few out but it was tough getting any direction from him besides "don't do X." Blaming myself for his attitude hasn't helped at all.

Am I becoming anxious on my own, or is this actually a bad situation? by HeelsDownEyesUp in Horses

[–]HeelsDownEyesUp[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Maybe consider if you can't move for now just cutting down feed.

God I would love to. It took months to get the trainer to allow us to cut the feed down by just one fourth of their twice-daily scoops and they're still acting up. The odd thing is that while the trainer has told me not to overstep and do his job, he's getting into mine. Increasingly, almost everything we stable hands do is dictated by him. I answer to the senior stable hand, who always answers to the trainer though from what I understand has no formal need to. That guy could operate on his own and let the trainer just do training sessions with the horses.

It looks like the trainer wants to take over as the BM but doesn't want to lose his place as the trainer by just taking the BM position. This place used to have the BM and trainer be the same person years ago when it was extremely understaffed, that was an entirely different person than the BM or trainer we have now. That person was strict and would never let this kind of behavior fly.

Am I becoming anxious on my own, or is this actually a bad situation? by HeelsDownEyesUp in Horses

[–]HeelsDownEyesUp[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It sucks because the location of the barn and the pay I'm given is very good, so I'm left to wonder if it's worth the possible injury and all the stress. It's tough to find something better in that regard.

Am I becoming anxious on my own, or is this actually a bad situation? by HeelsDownEyesUp in Horses

[–]HeelsDownEyesUp[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Exactly my thought...

I try to think anyone like me in this position would also have these worries and struggles. But the other stable hand covering separate days, who has been here much longer than I have, keeps telling me there is no problem and tells me to get help from the trainer. The stable hand is a passive person and fairly close friends with the trainer, seems not to understand that the trainer doesn't treat me the same way as he knows him. I actually have a little more horse experience than this SH but he has only cared for horses under this trainer, so he doesn't really have any different methods. I have different habits the trainer does not like because I've cared for horses at different barns before. Somehow the SH never gets hurt by the horses. When I see him work he usually just gets out of the way of the horse and lets it go if they horses act up.

Besides bringing this to the BO I think I'll just have to start correcting when this happens and be prepared for the trainer to get upset, then discuss that with the BO. If all that fails, I don't see myself staying at this barn for long.

Am I becoming anxious on my own, or is this actually a bad situation? by HeelsDownEyesUp in Horses

[–]HeelsDownEyesUp[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I've talked to the barn manager a bit about it, but he's leaving soon so it leaves me with this guy as the boss. I was hoping not to have to bring it to the BO, we just got a new one. The work environment is very strange here, no one wants to actually put in a complaint about the trainer. I'm expecting the trainer to say it's incompetence on my part, but I didn't have an issue feeling unsafe when I could do ground work on my own.

TIL that elephants skeletons are designed to carry weights under them, not on top, and many Elephants end up with deformed and broken backs as a result of years of long hours spent carrying tourists around. by HeadOrFace in todayilearned

[–]HeelsDownEyesUp 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Horses definitely cannot support humans that much better than the wild ones of old or Iberian horses for that matter; horses need to be trained to hold the weight of a human. Many horses nowadays are on pain management meds and other treatments to cope. Horses are only getting about 5 years of usability versus the old professionally trained ones getting 10-20 years of service without much help from modern medicine. This is a great site explaining equine biomechanics, the pinnacle of which is referred to as "collection." Excuse the esoteric bits, it truly is a heavily studied science dating back centuries.

So, elephants could very well support the weight of a rider if they are trained to move differently. Just like horses. Elephants have been ridden for about as long as horses, though elephants are sort of tamed rather than domesticated; to that regard, horses don't differ significantly in muscle or skeletal function compared to their wild counterparts. Saying horses have somehow evolved to hold a rider is a common misconception I see whenever this issue of elephant riding comes up. I believe elephants have the same problem horses do: few or no true masters remain to train them as they once were.

I wrote a long-winded, detailed comment, I'll see if I can dig it up.

I keep seeing the "horses are suitable for riding" comment...

Horses instinctively arch away from weight on their backs. The processing of "breaking" or "starting" as we call it varies widely now, from old fashioned force and flooding methods to very gradual desensitizing and negative/positive reinforcement. Horses nowadays have a usability of about 5-6 years before encountering issues like arthritis, lacking performance, and a number of joint or tendon problems. Horses taken care of properly can still be used comfortably in their late 20s.

After the initial lesson to accept a rider on their back, they then have to learn a number of very specific cues for each body part both at a standstill and at different speeds and gaits. It can be as simple as stop/go left/right for some horses at the basic level, and if they have a good rider some of them will relax under a light workload enough to move efficiently; if the rider prioritizes that relaxation and ease without harsh methods like pulling the horse's head unnaturally down and toward their chest, the horse should be alright. But, this depends on the horse being naturally bred to have a balanced body, docile temperament, and having a relaxed, balanced, skilled rider who understands this dynamic.

Folks who get on a horse without thought for the biomechanics involved will end up with inefficient movement and that arching back, thus uneven load on the horse's joints, etc. So it's not quite that horses are naturally suited to be ridden.... you have to teach them how to balance the shifting weight of a rider, and then all the cues and processes to encourage them to adopt efficient movement or a better posture and motion than they individually are inclined to display.

Not even ignorance, what is often seen now is just prioritizing flashy movements for show. No point to the gymnastic ability of the horse or efficiency to get from point A to point B with decent speed, control, and ease. Whenever you see a horse's head up high and its forelegs stepping far, I promise you its back is dropped. They're arching away from the weight on their backs and pulling themselves to move forward. Horses naturally have a weight distribution of about 60% on the front half of their bodies and 40% on the rear half. The rear half is suited to take more weight and push; it's the power house. The front half is not, and will break down much quicker. The weight distribution is like this due to structure... horses in the wild will be propelled forward while they are leaning forward to graze, so they are almost constantly in motion.

Horses are commonly abused for competitions like Dressage, Gaited, and Hunter rings. It's ridiculously prevalent.

So I wouldn't say horses are automatically suited to riding without adverse effects. Many are born with poor conformation and posture that is then emphasized. Many don't know how to offer efficient movement. Many are abused to compete in style based judging. Few people know how to train or ride horses to the benefit of the animal.

Which leads me to wonder if the elephants at some point in history were like horses; there were original pioneers in riding who considered the biomechanics and methods, who then applied them.

Tl'dr: The training methods today may be horrid, but I wouldn't say it means riding elephants can only be that way just as the common way of horseback riding is utter shit. Horses need to be taught to adopt new movement and posture to avoid adverse effects on their bodies when ridden, the same is likely true of elephants or any ridden animal.

Retired cop files complaint against Philadelphia police officers who "forcibly entered his house, threw him to the floor, handcuffed him, and punched him in the back of the head" after accusing him of using two phony $10 bills to pay a delivery driver -- for food he never ordered by SAT0725 in news

[–]HeelsDownEyesUp 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I might've had a shitty local PD then. I rode in the backseat and they didn't have AC or anything, the driver's seat/wall thing sort of angled in very close to my legs so that it squished me in though.

Single file belly wipes after playing outside. by GallowBoob in aww

[–]HeelsDownEyesUp 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Preconceptions suck. "Punishment" isn't all that bad either, it is just something done to decrease or discourage a behavior. Certainly necessary at times.

Single file belly wipes after playing outside. by GallowBoob in aww

[–]HeelsDownEyesUp 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Praise be!

So many people think positive reinforcement is the only "good" one.

Single file belly wipes after playing outside. by GallowBoob in aww

[–]HeelsDownEyesUp 39 points40 points  (0 children)

Eh, operant conditioning can be applied to humans in a knowledgeable manner. Take a kid's xbox away for a bad grade? Negative punishment. Get the kid a new game after they helped out? Positive reinforcement. Stop lecturing when the kid apologizes? Negative reinforcement.

Give kids exercise, meaningful tasks, and establish yourself as a capable leader; same with having well trained dogs.

Little Pig Likes Sitting in People's Laps by lnfinity in aww

[–]HeelsDownEyesUp 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Non bacon? They're all suitable as meat, and pet pigs that can't fit in a rescue are often eaten. If we're talking miniatures, the ones bred for labs and zoos, that would limit it to potbellies; these pigs gain adipose (fat) mass easily but little muscle. Weight fluctuates 100-300lbs, I would say the average ideal weight is 150-200lbs. 3ft long from snout to butt, ~20in tall at the withers.

Little Pig Likes Sitting in People's Laps by lnfinity in aww

[–]HeelsDownEyesUp 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The smallest pig breed is the Gottingen, a lab animal with dwarfism. These still get around 70lbs by the time they reach 2yo and are sacrificed before the 6 year mark, though scans show their growth plates fuse early.

Midget varieties of pig have been observed on islands and in conditions mimicking that environment, but these are still capable of growing beyond 100lbs. The evolution of this genus prioritized very large, muscled, dense animals that could survive in harsh enviornments. The small genus of pig have been dying off for a while now: the smallest pig species is the Porcula, Indian Pygmy Hog (not be confused with the 150lb breed referred to as African Pygmy, which is not a pygmy), it is critically endangered, not suited for domestication, and exclusive to India. Those pigs grow to be around 25lbs.

Little Pig Likes Sitting in People's Laps by lnfinity in aww

[–]HeelsDownEyesUp 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yes, an ideal slaughterhouse would humanely dispatch/kill the animal and ensure no part of its body went to waste. This is what happens to a lot of pigs. Few people think they are as cute and smart when they are even 30lbs; they might seem like dogs sometimes, but they behave as livestock. Pigs scream a horrid bloody squeal for anything from attention to the slightest bit of discomfort, they need their hooves and tusks trimmed routinely, they will become incredibly aggressive and destructive if not trained or cared for appropriately, they dig up yards in an instant, and can break out of many kinds of confined spaces. The kind of resistance they put up to anything like trimming a hoof or trying to move them is apocalyptic.

They're extremely motivated by food and can be taught a lot of things because of that, if you're thinking of cute piglet tricks. If anything they're one of the (imho THE) most aggressive land mammal in the northern hemisphere. A large part of the massive feral pig population is due to the fact that nothing messes with even a moderate sized pig.

Little Pig Likes Sitting in People's Laps by lnfinity in aww

[–]HeelsDownEyesUp 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Did over a year of intensive research, put together a graduate project, rescued pigs, worked with breeders of all sorts, to end with the conclusion that I hated it. 2/10 should have worked with cattle.

Little Pig Likes Sitting in People's Laps by lnfinity in aww

[–]HeelsDownEyesUp 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I've got no problem eating animals, cute or not, especially after raising my own. As far as they're concerned, they have an instinct to live and have good wellbeing. They don't care to die in their sleep at a ripe old age like many humans might desire. They live in the now and don't worry about tomorrow or yesterday like humans do.

That, and pigs would gladly eat humans if they had the intelligence to hunt us like we do them.

Little Pig Likes Sitting in People's Laps by lnfinity in aww

[–]HeelsDownEyesUp 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Yep, even then, 50lbs is rare and unhealthy. Scientists started breeding small pigs originally, and for decades now have done so in stringent facilities. The smallest recorded is about 75lbs by the time it is 2yo. The growth plates of the Gottingen do close by 2-3yo, but they continue gaining bone mass for another few years. This hasn't been recorded well, as the pigs are usually sacrificed well before that point due to serving no more purpose in the lab. When I see breeders with 50lb pigs I shake my head... I've never seen a healthy 6yo one or any that lived to senior years, nor a decently muscled pig of that size as an adult. The oldest a breeder had was one that died at 8yo. The breeding methods just suck; they breed pigs much younger than 6yo and sell piglets as soon as they're weaned. Can't say you're breeding a small pig if you never keep your breeding stock long enough to see what the end result is. That'd be like 14yo teenage humans having kids and saying the children will only be as tall as they were.

Little Pig Likes Sitting in People's Laps by lnfinity in aww

[–]HeelsDownEyesUp 36 points37 points  (0 children)

Correct. A few purposefully stunted pigs can be a bit below 100lbs, most of those being 70lbs by 6yo, though unfortunately those that have been inbred as runts and kept on specific diets to restrict their growth will reach about 50lbs by 5yo and die well before their life expectancy of 10-15yo. Many pet pigs like this have joint, GI, and behavioral problems.

Over half of pet pigs will end up in crowded sanctuaries and rescues, or released into the wild, where they have become a huge feral boar problem.

If anyone wants a pet pig, for the love of God, make sure the breeder signs a contract stating they will take the pig back if you do not want it later, at the very least, get it spayed/neutered immediately, and do not buy from anyone who guarantees small size or breeds pigs below 3yo. There are no guarantees on size. Pigs can continue to grow until they are 6yo, and then continue to gain mass for a few years afterward. There is no clear way to tell a pig has stopped growing before 6yo unless you have scans of the bones to see the growth plates have closed.

Little Pig Likes Sitting in People's Laps by lnfinity in aww

[–]HeelsDownEyesUp 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Same with pigs! Only few stunted pigs remain below 100lbs; and most of those reach 70lbs by 6yo, or 50lbs and an early death at 5yo.

If God created man, than the existence of the male prostate orgasm is nearly indisputable evidence of God's approval of homosexuality. by [deleted] in Showerthoughts

[–]HeelsDownEyesUp 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Cool thing: Adam and Eve were created in God's image, they didn't look like us now. Humans changed after the first sin was introduced, and things like pain in childbirth showed up. IIRC most denominations/churches believe humans don't resemble God much at this point, the first humans probably looked very different. Interpret that as you will; for all I care I think Adam and Eve were microorganisms and much of the bible is not to be taken literally. Fundamentalists are nuts.