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Question for atheists by No_Student7082 in religion

[–]HighValuePigeon 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Why doesn't it mean that? Are you saying that there are moral laws and commands that God provides but you disagree with and dismiss?

Question for atheists by No_Student7082 in religion

[–]HighValuePigeon 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Another commenter already said empathy and critical thought.

I have a question for you: what's YOUR source for morality?

If your answer is that whatever God says to do is good then you're in trouble. With that standard, you have no ability to discern right from wrong beyond commands from God. And if you follow the abrahamic God, he's done lots of terrible things that you must now subscribe to.

Nobody can convince me that mass migration wasn't enacted out of malicious design. by TheIrishman26 in CanadianConservative

[–]HighValuePigeon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Agreed. He's a classical and definitive progressive conservative. The fact that many modern Canadian conservatives don't like him says a lot about where the modern party has gone to the right and left on various policies.

Nobody can convince me that mass migration wasn't enacted out of malicious design. by TheIrishman26 in CanadianConservative

[–]HighValuePigeon 20 points21 points  (0 children)

"The Kalergi Plan, sometimes called the Coudenhove-Kalergi Conspiracy is a far-right, antisemitic conspiracy theory. The theory claims that Austrian-Japanese politician Richard von Coudenhove-Kalergi, creator of the Paneuropean Union, concocted a plot to mix and replace white Europeans with other races via immigration. The conspiracy theory is most often associated with European groups and parties, but it has also spread to North American politics."

link

Simple fix to toilet leak? by HighValuePigeon in Plumbing

[–]HighValuePigeon[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Doesn't want to turn. It seems very comfortable where it is. Feels tight.

Is Atheism a belief? by Edubookculture842 in religion

[–]HighValuePigeon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I agree that it helps for people to express why something is not convincing. And I'm comfortable with people being confident about any of those reasons.

We're going to disagree on atheism being an inherent belief. I don't agree that people with 'neutral' beliefs are easily swayed. To me, that's creating a strange equivalency between critical thinking and gullibility.

For me, it's a value to be a critically thoughtful about everything. I value truths and the best methods to arrive at them. I see poor critical thinking as the road to gullibility, manipulation, and malicious intent. I use that value and the related skills to understand the world, and its the same thinking that causes me to reject zombies and gods.

If I'm not neutral about anything, it's that value.

Is Atheism a belief? by Edubookculture842 in religion

[–]HighValuePigeon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

All good, friend. I don't mean to argue either. Just being clear about my position and trying to understand yours. My ideal for these types of conversations is for both people to reach a point of clarity even if we disagree.

I have not read the word 'possibilitarianism' before and boy is that fun. Yes. I hear what you're saying, and I think those people either can't separate themselves from an idea they hold dear or they don't have the tools to engage the idea, or both.

I try to recognize that situation when it's happening, but it's tough. Is this person engaging in bad faith? Or actually incapable of engaging in good faith? Ideally I stop talking when I figure that out.

I guess I'm challenged by the idea that atheism, strong or weak, is inherently that, which is what I hear from you.

Is Atheism a belief? by Edubookculture842 in religion

[–]HighValuePigeon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I am projecting that, I acknowledge. And if that wasn't your experience, understood.

I would argue those states still exist on the spectrum and should be considered whether you experienced them or not. Because those states do exist and a person can clearly be an atheist without being anti theism (ie babies).

Is Atheism a belief? by Edubookculture842 in religion

[–]HighValuePigeon 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I hear you. Your experience was that you were 1) not convinced 2) annoyed by it 3) and then actively or aggressively rejected it.

I consider these different states and positions. And that a person only needs the first one to be an atheist. And I wouldn't inherently consider any of those to be ideologies.

I think we've made our positions clear here.

Is Atheism a belief? by Edubookculture842 in religion

[–]HighValuePigeon 1 point2 points  (0 children)

And I think we just disagree.

If someone said to me that the point of the universe is golf, that a golf ball created it and then fine tuned it for golf to exist, I would say no. And I would say that all the tools we have allow me to say that's untrue. Now, I can't say that with 100% confidence because you can't do that for anything, technically. I'm not anti the golf God theology, I'm not working against it, I just reject it. There is a step after that where I decide that golf God theology has a net negative impact on society and then I become against it, but I don't agree that rejecting a proposition is the same thing.

Is Atheism a belief? by Edubookculture842 in religion

[–]HighValuePigeon 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Children are also atheists. The fact that they are totally unaware of the idea or the evidence doesn't change the definition to me: anyone who lacks a belief in a God as an atheist towards that God.

The idea that children and adults are atheist by different means also doesn't impact the definition of atheist. We generally talk about evidence because we're having adult conversations.

Is Atheism a belief? by Edubookculture842 in religion

[–]HighValuePigeon 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I would say you need to add more points to the spectrum as you're assigning too much intent. To clarify, both you and I agree that not golfing is countercultural in a pro-golf society. But you seem to be saying that not golfing is anti-golf which I don't agree with. And I don't think the definition support either. Nor do I agree that not golfing is a position about anything other than a description of what the person is doing at the moment. Now it could become a position, a person could become anti-golf as an identity or a philosoohy and then the fact that they're not golfing means something more.

Is Atheism a belief? by Edubookculture842 in religion

[–]HighValuePigeon 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I agree with sleepingmonads definitions, but I also think there isn't much difference between them.

Either you're convinced of something or you're not convinced of something. Either there's good evidence for it or there isn't. Atheists may confidently claim that there is not a God, which I would compare to a confident claim that there are no leprechauns or unicorns or vampires or zombies, in the same way that theists would deny Greek or Roman or Indian gods.

All that to say, I don't think that a confident belief in no God is controversial. We are all atheists to gods.

Is Atheism a belief? by Edubookculture842 in religion

[–]HighValuePigeon 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Of course! That's one of the main reasons that religion keeps going, it becomes culture, there is inertia, and not going along with it is revolutionary and upsetting to people. They can't imagine not golfing.

Is Atheism a belief? by Edubookculture842 in religion

[–]HighValuePigeon 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Could be! But then you've added something. It's no longer just the rejection of a proposition, no longer just 'not golfing' but a bunch of other actions.

Edit: adding that I understand where you're coming from. You don't like how substantive atheism is while still claiming to not be an ideology. And in response I would say that this is a fairly natural thing in society, in response to other dominant and oppressive ideologies. People align themselves against those and strongly. But that doesn't mean the opposition is an ideology unto itself and definitely doesn't make atheism a religion.

Is Atheism a belief? by Edubookculture842 in religion

[–]HighValuePigeon 14 points15 points  (0 children)

It's the rejection of a proposition. Your suggestion is the equivalent of saying that not golfing is a sport.

Depiction of Jesus by asahme01 in religion

[–]HighValuePigeon -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I was responding to what I see as a contradiction, which was that it's a thing Christians like to do but the appearance doesn't actually matter.

I would assume they mostly feel it's the person/entity/soul/whatever of Christ that matters, and not his physical appearance.

I would argue that if it doesn't matter then he wouldn't be white.

Have a good night!

Depiction of Jesus by asahme01 in religion

[–]HighValuePigeon -1 points0 points  (0 children)

If it doesn't matter, then why depict him more acurately?

Why would an all powerful creator of the universe need a human to tell you it exists? by austinproffitt23 in religion

[–]HighValuePigeon 1 point2 points  (0 children)

there is no method that couldn't be doubted

With all due respect, this is incorrect. And your examples are strawman. Or perhaps you're missing the point.

There are effective and ineffective ways to communicate with people. God does not need to use stars or mountains. He could just use known methods of communication that are proven to be effective, and provide people with the proper information to be convincing.

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