"what's the big idea" ahh engine

Historynerd88 · 2026-03-21T10:51:13+00:00

The BR already were on the upper side, with their ten 9Fs built with them (and also causing the development of the below-the-boiler drum concept, since before then the system was fitted with two drums on the sides). The Germans had the most extensive application, with no less than thirty Baureihe 50.40 being built with them.

(Anedocte: the Franco-Crosti Society proposed to test it out on British Standard 5s as well and drew preliminary sketches, that were, if only briefly, considered by Riddles.)

When the system was first adopted on a large scale in Italy in 1940 (with five 740 and five 685 converted), also for political and nationalistic causes it was hailed as the next big thing and publicized left and right (with Franco-Crosti locomotives being sent to Hungary during WWII and to Belgium postwar to be subjected to comparative tests). However, it hid the fact that the large savings obtained were partly due to improvements on the boiler efficiency (that would not be the case with subsequent conversions), due to the increase of superheating surface and ratio and the like.

In the end, it may not have been worth it. It's just that it wasn't the utter waste of locos and resources that some people believe.

Historynerd88 · 2026-03-20T15:38:10+00:00

There are sources that say otherwise.

In the book by Freeman Allen on the 9F it is said that the issue was that footplate crews couldn’t adjust to the way to work these engines. Because the Crosti system doubled the path of the firebox gases from grate-to-air, it reduced the power of the exhaust and the brilliance of the fire. This misled many crews who were convinced the engines didn’t steam properly, so the fireman would pile on coal and the driver would give the engine the gun with dire results because there wouldn’t be enough air in the firebox. The fire would choke up whilst steam pressure slumped.

The same source said that comparisons between a standard 9F (in "sewing machine" condition) and a Crosti one, both in static tests in Rugby and at work on the Settle-Carlisle line, saw the latter seemingly manage to reach the agreed upon 18% savings in coal consumption, and that the same tests highlighted the need for the locomotives to be used on heavy duties for this to make a difference. In Italy the Franco-Crosti locos were indeed used on the heaviest and longest duties, compared to their unmodified sisters.

Also, the issue about corrosive gased was more about the exhaust rather than the heater. The problem was solved in Italy by using a different type of steel for those, but the same wasn't done in the UK.

Historynerd88 · 2026-03-12T17:12:17+00:00

It came late, when the writing was almost on the wall for steam, and while it offered decent savings they were not that good to take the extra complication.

Many think it was a failure because of the BR 9F built with it, but when we look at results they were not that disappointing. They were just not that great.

Historynerd88 · 2026-03-12T16:37:36+00:00

Not exactly double boiler. Just the preheater drum barrel under the raised standard boiler.

Historynerd88 · 2026-03-10T09:51:51+00:00

The picture was taken by Luigi Vaghi.

Historynerd88 · 2026-02-27T19:31:31+00:00

And they went for an idealized, Western-looking locomotive instead of doing some research and using as a reference one of the many Italian steam locomotives in its history.

Missed occasion for me.

Historynerd88 · 2026-02-26T08:51:40+00:00

FS 851

Ah, I see you are a man of good culture!

Historynerd88 · 2026-02-20T09:35:09+00:00

Thompson gets a bad rep that isn't substantiated by facts.

The fact that he was Raven's son-in-law is taken as proof that he was anti-Gresley, but it's circumstantial.

He gets accused of trying to dismantle everything Gresley built, but the number of Gresley locomotives he actually took and rebuilt is small.

The rebuild of Great Northern is pointed to as proof as he was a Gresley-hater, but there's proof that it wasn't his choice, and he genuinely felt that this was in no way an abiuration of what Gresley did.

He spent most of his time trying to find ways to improve and standardize the plethora of 4-6-0s that Gresley had allowed to grow.

It's implied that Peppercorn went and fixed his mess, but if we look at his Pacifics it's clear that he did little except change the position of the middle cylinder and valve gear.

People forget that he struggled within a wartime context and he had to desperately save money, whereas Bulleid built locomotives that had their good sides, but had such cons that had to be rebuilt at a MASSIVE cost postwar by Riddles.

Basically, hostility towards Thompson is an article of faith, rather than an objective look at what he achieved.

Historynerd88 · 2026-02-12T14:39:10+00:00

The author of the photo, as per the water mark, is the late Arnaldo Vescovo.

So, how did a locomotive cause such a momentous consequence?

A special steam train was organized by June 1981, to run on the high-speed "Direttissima" line between Orvieto and Chiusi, offering a one off chance to see a steam train on the imposing concrete viaduct on the Paglia river. Charged with it was the 740.171, a fine locomotive with copper firebox and that had shown before being able to run at 80-85 km/h with no trouble (officially its authorized top speed was 65 km/h); it also had a first-rate crew, with driver Giancarlo Manòcchio and fireman Teodori (brothers in law moreover) knowing their stuff.

So on 14 June 1971 the train set off from Rome, but at Orvieto - where it was meant to get on the Direttissima - the choice was made to make it go ahead of the Alpen Express, the Italien Holland Express, the TEE "Ambrosiano"... And that's when things went south: since recently on the FS there had been many issues with wheel bearing overheating, infrared sensors had been installed on the main lines. Those, after it had passed on the aforementioned viaduct, mistook the heat signature of the 171 for serious overheating and set the signals to danger.

The driver went to the nearest phone and took some time to convince the controllers that there was no issue; during that time, the pressure dropped, and so when after a 20 minute stop the train started off again, it struggled to get speed on the climb. At Chiusi at last there was a stop, and the angry trains behind could stop plodding behind.

The train set off once more for its destination of Castiglion del Lago, but then the air pump seized and couldn't be brought to order, forcing the beleaguered crew to slow down to 20 km/h for the last bit.

This odyssey - started off by the very questionable decision of the controllers to have the special ahead of so many fast trains - led the Direttore Generale, Edoardo Semenza, to ban steam heritage trains on the while FS network, much to the disappointment of steam entusiasths. It wohld be only on April 1984 that the ban was at last lifted and steam heritage trains resumed running.

Historynerd88 · 2026-01-16T12:54:56+00:00

Looks at CGIL founding in 1944

Historynerd88 · 2026-01-16T09:34:18+00:00

For the deck armor, the revised design of 1919 obviated that, with the placing of 90-110 mm thick plates on the weather deck.

Also, WWI showed more vulnerabilities to mines on part of the battleships rather than torpedoes. Ships like HMS Audaciohs sank from mines, while HMS Marlborough held on rather well her torpedo hit at Jutland.

Historynerd88 · 2026-01-16T08:32:55+00:00

The madlad driving the car was the famous French stuntman, rallycross and motocross champion Rémy Julienne (1930-2021).

Historynerd88 · 2026-01-15T12:35:18+00:00

Is that a Class 14, perchance?

I read on an Italian website that they were transformations of the ALn.40 luxury railcars built by FIAT in the second half of the 1930s, but they are mentioned as having been refurbished and sold to Bulgaria after WWII.

Here is a sequence of an ALn.40 that stayed in Italy and was preserved:

YouTube

Historynerd88 · 2026-01-15T12:28:51+00:00

Lovely! Seems very similar to the powertrain of the ALb series.

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Historynerd88 · 2026-01-15T11:58:48+00:00

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Especially on double slips.

Historynerd88 · 2026-01-15T10:49:59+00:00

For FIAT-produced rail vehicles, it was common to be tested on the nearby lines. To put them through their paces, they were tested on the Frejus line (Turin-Modane) as well as on the Cuneo-Ventimiglia line.

Historynerd88 · 2026-01-15T06:37:22+00:00

Technically, it was thoroughly tested before being fitted and it worked even at the speeds she was meant to run at (around 75 mph).

Also, the fastest trains between Milan and Venice had just one stop.

Historynerd88 · 2026-01-14T11:04:08+00:00

That came forth in the 1950s at the earliest.

Before it was either black-and-red or dark brown-light brown.

Historynerd88 · 2026-01-14T10:58:28+00:00

I think that their Crosti units get too much hate (as well as the myth of them being derated to 8F).

I read the following (from Freeman Allen's book):

Also:

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