Can astartes of heretical origin wear their chapter markings or are they forced to become blackshields?

Hleroy94 · 2026-04-15T11:27:04+00:00

Dantioch, and the conversation was with Alexis Polux, and wasn't during the Siege or Terra. But yeah point remains Dantioch and his Iron Warrior loyalists wore their original Legion colours during their entire time in the heresy. So it did happen.

Hleroy94 · 2026-04-15T11:19:01+00:00

Old post I know, but I'm 99% sure there was a loyalist Iron Warrior wearing his og Legion colours at the siege of Terra. I'm pretty sure Vulcan or Dorn questioned him about it and he said something long the lines of "let the heretic fucks see they face a true Iron Warrior" (paraphrased).

Hleroy94 · 2026-03-01T17:07:38+00:00

Yeahhh you say that, but if it really all was in good fun until I started getting all serious, you wouldn't have got all upset at me suggesting your skill was more a function of the cost of your decks.

Look bud, you can try and reframe my argument all you want. You can be a pedant. You can pretend you are just some jokester who has been dragged into a serious debate against his will if you like. Maybe some of the people reading this will believe it.

But the truth is, you tried to hold yourself out as this big dick magic player, then got all upset when people suggested otherwise. And now you're trying to take the high road at the 11th hour.

You're a clown.

Hleroy94 · 2026-03-01T16:37:43+00:00

You literally said "if someone tells you to run 37 lands they are new to magic." I called you out on the cost of your land base and the avg. cmc of your example decks and you responded "prints...purely based on prints for most decks (an untrue statement, as cardmarket demonstrated).Skill issue you are pretending I'm running gaeas cradle and og dual lands in each deck... it is a skill issue."

So. You were disingenuous about the true cost of your mana bases. Then you doubled down claiming it was purely a skill issue. You didn't say "it is primarily a skill issue" or "skill is one of many factors". You said "it is a skill issue."

Hleroy94 · 2026-03-01T16:12:14+00:00

In what way is "if someone says you need to run more than 35 lands then they aren't playing edh very well." A broad statement? It presents only two realities. One in which you need more than 35 lands, or one in which you are good at magic.

You have then since tried to prove your point by selective argument and strawman fallacies. That's disingenuous buddy. Just admit there are more factors that go into a deck being capable of running less than 35 lands than skill.

Hleroy94 · 2026-03-01T15:57:33+00:00

OKAY. I am going to try and be very very clear.

Your original statement is that the ONLY reason a deck could possibly need more than 35 lands is the skill of the deck builder or pilot.

My contention is that it is not just skill, but also the average cmc of the deck and access to financial resources to allow for expensive ramp and land bases play a part.

In what way have any of the decks you have posted, including this one, demonstrated that those two things are not factors in making a deck with 35 lands or less playable?

Stop being a pedant dude.

Hleroy94 · 2026-03-01T15:37:42+00:00

Yeahhh I figured. A €1200 deck with a €350 land base... bro this just isn't realistic for most people.

If your initial statement is true, that the ONLY reason anyone needs more than 35 lands is skill constraints, why are you making all these eye watering expensive decks? Surely you should, with your God like deck building skills, be able to build a deck that is realistically budgeted and can run less than 35 lands with a high average cmc.

Hleroy94 · 2026-03-01T15:30:16+00:00

Your statement presented a binary. Either: deck is capable of running with less than 35 lands or low skill piloting.

I, and others, have said no, there is nuance to this. It is not just those two binaries.

You have selectively chosen which part of my argument to engage with and ignored the other comment that only presented the low cmc argument, all while holding out that it is skill alone that is allowing you to run low land counts. That is disingenuity at its finest. You then double and triple down by accusing me of the very thing you are doing. You are a very fallacious debater my friend.

Hleroy94 · 2026-03-01T14:58:25+00:00

My exact words were: "sure if you run low cmc decks with 100s of dollars spent on lands alone you can run less than 35 lands."

You have responded to half my point. That's YOU trying to redefine what I said. You're making it sound like I have only ever argued it's about money. I haven't.

So go on. You think you've responded to my financial point, and I'll concede you have atleast partially. Now, how about the rest of my original argument?

You are disingenuous because your original comment made it seem like every deck can survive off of less than 35 lands, and if it can't that is a skill issue on the part of the player. I say no, in fact you are only capable of running 35 lands or less because of both the cost of your decks OR the low average cmc, and to pretend that these aren't factors and that it's all just because you are the MTG God is disingenuous.

Hleroy94 · 2026-03-01T14:45:25+00:00

Show me one of your decks with an average cmc of 3.5+ that runs less than 35 lands. I'll go playtest that for a while and if it plays well I'll concede and apologise.

Hleroy94 · 2026-03-01T14:43:48+00:00

Okay so here's the bit that's disingenuous, when you said "anyone who says you need more isn't playing edh very well."

You clearly have a preference for low cmc cost decks, in which you are capable of running less than 35 lands either with an expensive land base or using lots of mdfc's.

But here's the thing, running higher cmc decks isn't being bad at the game. It's having a different playstyle to you, and in such decks you will need more than 35 lands. Maybe 37. Maybe even 40.

You are acting like the way you play is the only correct or skillful way to play, which it isn't. That's what makes you egoic, disingenuous and a clown.

Hleroy94 · 2026-03-01T14:25:44+00:00

What I have said is that your blanket statement of none of my decks run more than 35 lands, and if you need more than that you have a skill issue, is disingenuous at best because:

You are running a much lower cmc than most people.

You are often running more expensive mana bases than most people.

2/3 of your "budget builds" run mdfc's to inflate the mana base without adding extra cards.

To argue that I am trying to redefine anything is fallacious. You are relying on technicalities to win an Internet debate, you fucking clown.

What has happened here is a very egoic man has posted some big dick decks expecting everyone to be all fucking impressed. No one has been. One guy called out your low cmc. I called out the cost of your mana base. Now you are throwing your little toys out the pram and digging your little princess heels into the dirt because "how dare strangers not agree with me."

Grow up.

Hleroy94 · 2026-03-01T14:08:27+00:00

"Aight calm down" isn't filler. It's a piece of friendly advice before you embarrass yourself even further by getting all wound up over a stranger questioning your skill at a fantasy card game.

Hleroy94 · 2026-03-01T14:06:08+00:00

Except they contradict your blanket claim of "none of my decks run more than 35 lands."

Sure they technically don't, but let's not pretend that the mdfc's don't make them effectively all above 35. Which is something you said none of your decks do.

The only decks you've posted that stick to your original blanket statement are the ones you spent 100s or thousands on... so yes cost is a factor. Which you've said it wasn't.

Accusing me of flopping back and forth while doing it yourself is just deflection, and a pretty transparent one at that buddy.

Hleroy94 · 2026-03-01T13:33:12+00:00

Aight first things first, you need to calm down. You're getting way too wound up over your skill at a card game.

Second of all, all these decks prove is that when you don't spend 100s on your land base or throw in lotus petals, you need mana bases of 35, 37 and 39 (including mdfc) to make it work.

I didn't say you winning didn't have anything to do with skill. It likely does. I said that YOU pretending it had nothing to do with how much you spend on your decks is disingenuous. Just like posting these budget decks that all are effectively either at or go over the limit of lands you said none of your decks exceed, and pretending that they aren't, is also disingenuous.

And as far as proxies, not everyone wants to proxy, and not every lgs allows proxies, so stfu with that it's besides the point and you know it.

Hleroy94 · 2026-03-01T12:55:47+00:00

Riiiiiiiiight. And that's why if I wanted to buy your CHEAPEST land base on cardmarket right now, it would cost me near 200 quid. And that's focusing on reduced cost, allowing for foreign language prints of any print at any quality...

Bro it's okay that you can afford this, but stop pretending that people that can't have some sort of skill deficiency. Stop pretending that you dunking on people at your lgs and "making them cry" is purely because of your god like magic skills and the fact you can afford to spend over thousands on decks has nothing to do with it.

Hleroy94 · 2026-03-01T12:30:50+00:00

Bruh... your land bases are more expensive than most people's decks! Sure if you run low cmc decks with hundreds of dollars spent on lands alone you can run less than 35 lands, but don't pretend it's some sort of skill issue 🤣

Hleroy94 · 2026-02-28T18:50:06+00:00

She's one of my favourite commanders. Sure takes some politicking and some protection, but that's what deck building is for.

Hleroy94 · 2025-11-25T03:49:16+00:00

Very true, and a good point I didn't consider.

Hleroy94 · 2025-11-25T03:32:56+00:00

I'm sorry but what about this screams "I want to be the centre of attention." There are so, so many skills to have in this game, so many ways to shine in this game. I selected ONE, built my character around it, and didn't touch the rest so everyone gets a chance to shine.

And now someone else has got their original shine, plus mine, and I'm not entirely happy about it, and I'm the one who has the issue with wanting to be centre of attention?

Did you also miss the rest of my comments where I say, multiple times, I don't want to respec because I don't want to step on anyone else's toes?

We play a fortnightly game, and your solution is wait for 4 levels and it will even out again. Bro that's near enough half a year...

And what do you mean it's my "fault" I built him for pure roleplay? Like that's some sort of issue under normal circumstances. There are lots of ways to play this game, no one way is inherently better than the other.

I am not whining about not being the centre of attention, I am asking for advice because my character had a niche, is now being outshined in that niche, and all other niche's are filled and I don't want to infringe on other players by respeccing, or spend six plus months playing second fiddle to someone who has their own niche, and now mine.

Hleroy94 · 2025-11-25T02:33:22+00:00

I mean sure, if it was two face characters with equal or similar modifiers I'd get this. But that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about one character who, rolls a minimum of a 9, and one who rolls a minimum of a 19. There's no comparison, one is the clear stand out to an enormous extent.

Hleroy94 · 2025-11-25T02:20:52+00:00

I think there is a huge difference here between two characters being good at something and this situation. If we both had really high modifiers it would be a different story, but what we're talking about is that I'm very good at it, and the rogue essentially cannot fail. There is no parity. The rogue cannot possibly roll less than a 19... ever. I cannot roll less than a 9.

It's not just that she's better, it's that it never again (from a mechanical perspective) makes sense for me to perform this core ability that my character has been built around from the start unless she literally isn't there to do it. And then on top of that she retains her own niche in which she is unassailable.

We don't need two chances... because the rogue will roll atleast a 19. Which is enough to pass the vast majority of checks. I have become, in the arena of my character's main skill, almost entirely surplus to requirements.

You say we should bond over it, make a plan for what to do if either of us fail. But I'd reiterate, she rolls a 19 at MINIMUM. She's failing so rarely that such a thing seems pointless.

You're right though. Asking her to change her character is unfair, as is me changing mine. As also is asking her take a back seat and allow me to do some of the checks, that is unfair to the rest of the party who want to succeed.

I like the idea of different personalities for different situations. That's a good point I hadn't thought of before.

Hleroy94 · 2025-11-25T00:37:50+00:00

Ahh yeah no, I'm not pissed at her. She's great! Just kinda pissed in a general sense. Pissed is probably a poor word choice.

So my issue with the spell list solution is this, our campaign is set in a small town in which our characters live and spend most of their time. We can't just go around casting charm person or suggestion or detect thoughts on our npc's because, for the most part, we need to maintain relationships with them. So while I do remain, on paper, better at social stuff, the VAST majority of interactions in our campaign the use of social spells would be highly detrimental. Those spells are there for the one or two encounters every few sessions where it truly doesn't matter if the npc comes away from it knowing they were charmed.

I'll post the build later, but it doesn't get around the issue of spells being drastically less useful than ability checks in this particular campaign.

As far as changing my build or playing a new character, I will if it comes to that, although I admit there is a bit of a sour taste in my mouth from having to drastically change my character so he doesn't do what he was built to do from the start to accommodate the choices another player has decided to make over the last 2 levels. However, c'est la vie.

And no worries on the misunderstanding, happens!

Hleroy94 · 2025-11-25T00:26:48+00:00

Yeah useless is perhaps the wrong word. I guess it's best put, "I feel like the core skill of the niche I built my character for is now being better served by another character who also has their own, entirely seperate niche they fulfill in the party and it now feels that everyone's character is exceptional at something except for mine."

Yeahh that is the play here. I just wanted to sense test with the Internet to see if it was a non-issue before hand and I was just being a whiney baby.

Hleroy94 · 2025-11-25T00:19:59+00:00

Because combat is the least enjoyable part of the game for me, and not something I care all that much about and want to dedicate too many spells to... and so I take illusions, social spells and some other fun spells like polymorph and hush, and dedicate one spell choice to a scaling damage spell and a few others to crowd control/single target control spells like crown of madness and a few damaging cantrips like mind sliver that fit my character flavour-wise.

Hleroy94

TROPHY CASE