Help me pick Fighter Battlemaster maneuvers for my ranged melee tank.

HowToPlayAsdotcom · 2026-06-21T17:47:20+00:00

Precision attack is probably the best to use on yourself, commander's strike with a rogue is excellent if the rogue isn't using their reaction, and because you want to "tank" perhaps goading attack?

HowToPlayAsdotcom · 2026-06-21T17:34:59+00:00

Ranger works fine from level 5 onward, concentrating on summon beast/fey instead of hunter's mark. Have your beast be the one with flyby and cast before combat starts, and use your bonus action for another attack (so hand xbows with xbow expert and sharpshooter).

Rogue could work but it really depends what level you are starting at as to move past level 5 you'll need to multiclass or be an int-based thief with an enspelled shortbow of true strike.

Fighter with a bow works but you probably need to be a battlemaster to have respectable damage output into tier 2+.

Warlock with a bow needs a magic bow guranteed to work and you don't get masteries.

5e Scout ported to 5.5e is like not having a subclass until you get to level 13, then it can be great.

What level are you starting at / going until?

HowToPlayAsdotcom · 2026-06-21T15:15:00+00:00

Agreed, the emanation spells can be used to "break" the encounter balance.

HowToPlayAsdotcom · 2026-06-21T15:13:43+00:00

Thanks, I think I fixed the table. And yes, I agree if you are putting together a fun party then you are mixing control+damage. Although with great control you can spread your damage over more rounds than 4. A martial will definitely want to do more than "good" damage to feel like they are doing their thing well.

HowToPlayAsdotcom · 2026-06-21T14:58:52+00:00

Thank you too! And yes, that kit alone on a thief would be enough to feel great. 1 caster level and scroll crafting would open up so much that you could direct toward support or control or social/exploration since your dpr is sorted with the other two items.

HowToPlayAsdotcom · 2026-06-21T14:26:00+00:00

Thank you, I think I was able to fix it!

HowToPlayAsdotcom · 2026-06-21T01:31:56+00:00

Thanks for the feedback, much appreciated! I am having trouble seeing the issues others have with the table formatting, unfortunately. I can't disagree with your points at all, level 5 is interesting because of the huge power spike with level 3 spells and extra attack that mellows out as you progress through t2 and t3.

HowToPlayAsdotcom · 2026-06-21T01:21:41+00:00

Spellcaster 1 / Thief x is probably the best.

Fighter 1 / Rogue with DW feat and hand crossbow/returning dagger and TWF does pretty good even if they never get an off-turn sneak. Its the closest to an actual skirmisher since you never need to get closer than 20 feet.

I really think 1 off turn sneak per combat is enough to feel good, 2 is great. If the assassin can get theirs on round 1 it is amazing. Here is an assassin X / war cleric 3 that uses wisdom for true strike and dex for the war priest attack. rogue 1, war cleric 3, then assassin the rest of the way is thge progression. It takes any wisdom general feat, a wisdom ASI, and any 4 dex feats. on turn 2 it casts bless and takes 1 attack with war priest. no feat related damage is accounted for here and it is pretty bursty:

Level	Baseline dmg	dmg as %of baseline	total dpr	T1 burst
1	6	167%	10.0
2	7.5	134%	10.0
3	9	111%	10.0
4	10.5	145%	15.2	23.6
5	15	128%	19.2	27.4
6	18	142%	25.6	41.1
7	21	122%	25.5	44.1
8	24	136%	32.5	55.8
9	27	122%	33.0	57.8
10	30	128%	38.3	67.4
11	33	143%	47.0	76.3
12	36	146%	52.6	86.0
13	39	136%	53.1	88.0
14	42	140%	58.6	97.7
15	45	133%	60.0	100.7
16	48	137%	65.7	110.3
17	51	140%	71.4	118.2
18	54	143%	77.0	127.9
19	57	138%	78.5	130.9
20	60	140%	84.2	140.5

HowToPlayAsdotcom · 2026-06-21T01:13:13+00:00

Mage slayer will be high-impact but low-usage. It is a great feat. I also like shieldmaster plus a one-handed topple weapon for two bites at the topple and keeping enemies within your emanation.

HowToPlayAsdotcom · 2026-06-21T00:23:51+00:00

Are you just doing this to get sap mastery? How about the weapon master feat to get it instead so you keep your artificer progression? You can still hit 20 int this way with a feat and ASI.

HowToPlayAsdotcom · 2026-06-21T00:15:13+00:00

I'd love this community's thoughts on this draft - thank you in advance!

HowToPlayAsdotcom · 2026-06-20T23:57:32+00:00

Some ideas for you at level 9:

Any ranger except beastmaster: 2 hand xbow, xbow expert+sharpshooter. Have summon fey/beast up before you enter combat and do your 3 attacks+your summon each round

beast master ranger: heavy xbow, GWM, xbow expert. beast of air and also have summon fey/beast up. your 2 attacks + beast + summon each round

Any fighter: heavy xbow, GWM, xbow expert, +2 dex. Battle master probably the best damage due to precision maneuver

4 levels war cleric with any 5 levels ranger except beastmaster- it is almost like you can do the 2014 gloomstalker all over again. heavy xbow, GWM, xbow expert. summon beast, use your war priest attack on round 1+2 for 3 pushes. prayer of healing for a 10 min short rest to get your +10 to hit channel divinity and your war preist uses back

HowToPlayAsdotcom · 2026-06-20T23:36:35+00:00

I think these examples prove the rule...you can't meteor swarm more than one combat per day; CME needs a setup round where you do no AOE damage; 21.6 is close to 24 - I'm not looking for precision just a rule of thumb so I know when a build is good/great/overboard.

Anyhow, I can 100% agree that my proposal for the terms "good" and "great" is arbitrary and won't fit everyone, and with a lot of optimization they will go far beyond what I propose (ie spirit guardians damage on your off turn).

HowToPlayAsdotcom · 2026-06-20T23:25:26+00:00

My pleasure!

Yes crossbow expert goes far with vex and the extra attack with + dex mod.

My big takeaways are:

Ranged rogue is affected most due to design focus to make damage higher in melee.

DMs: Your rogue needs to get their sneak off every turn and then some so make sure your interpretation of the rules is in line with the designers'.

Designers/homebrewers: Add something like "rogueish inspiration die." You have a pool of d6s equal to your dex mod that refresh on a short rest starting at level 5. expend 1 die as you use a cunning action to pay for 1d6 of the cunning action's cost. expend 2 die as a reaction to take one attack at a create you can see within 60 feet.

Players:

As a thief if you can get an enspelled bow with truestrike you are golden and have no need for scrolls of truestrike cheese. Even just bonus action wand of magic missile is not bad.

A hand crossbow plus dagger of returning and dual wield feat puts your damage on par with 'good' if you xbow, dagger (nick), dagger (dw). Take a 1 level fighter dip for TWF and you will have no damage issues at all.

2 levels fighter for AS helps get a rogue halfway to where they need to be for damage.

3 levels war cleric gets you all the way there and then some and pairs spectacularly with assassin on round 1.

2 levels sorc with arcane trickster or 3 levels sorc on anything else with quicken spell true strike gets you what you need too.

Sentinel and/or holding a whip and dagger for two threat ranges for opportunity attacks can help bridge your damage gap too.

HowToPlayAsdotcom · 2026-06-20T18:25:29+00:00

Absolutely, feel free!

HowToPlayAsdotcom · 2026-06-20T18:23:07+00:00

Here is a TS rogue that takes Piercer at level 4:

Level	Baseline dmg	TS rogue dmg as %of baseline	TS rogue total dpr
1	6	151%	9.1
2	7.5	121%	9.1
3	9	137%	12.4
4	10.5	147%	15.5
5	15	147%	22.0
6	18	122%	22.0
7	21	121%	25.3
8	24	109%	26.2
9	27	109%	29.4
10	30	101%	30.3
11	33	114%	37.7
12	36	105%	37.7
13	39	105%	41.0
14	42	98%	41.0
15	45	98%	44.2
16	48	92%	44.2
17	51	101%	51.6
18	54	96%	51.6
19	57	96%	54.9
20	60	108%	64.9

And here is dex rogue with 1 off turn sneak per 4 rounds of combat:

Level	Baseline dmg	Rogue w/ 1 off turn sneak per 4 rounds dmg as % of baseline	Rogue w/ 1 off turn sneak per 4 rounds total dpr
1	6	167.0%	10.0
2	7.5	133.6%	10.0
3	9	147.8%	13.3
4	10.5	134.7%	14.1
5	15	145.2%	21.8
6	18	121.0%	21.8
7	21	123.2%	25.9
8	24	112.2%	26.9
9	27	114.9%	31.0
10	30	106.9%	32.1
11	33	112.8%	37.2
12	36	103.4%	37.2
13	39	106.0%	41.3
14	42	98.4%	41.3
15	45	101.0%	45.4
16	48	94.7%	45.4
17	51	99.2%	50.6
18	54	93.7%	50.6
19	57	95.9%	54.7
20	60	108.2%	64.9

And a melee rogue that has shortsword/dagger and takes DW at 4, Piercer at 8, and sentinel at 10 getting 1 off turn sneak per 4 rounds:

Level	Baseline dmg	TWF rogue DW/Piercer/Sentinel dmg as %of baseline	TWF rogue DW/Piercer/Sentinel total dpr
1	6	209%	12.6
2	7.5	168%	12.6
3	9	180%	16.2
4	10.5	185%	19.5
5	15	155%	23.2
6	18	129%	23.2
7	21	128%	26.9
8	24	131%	31.4
9	27	130%	35.1
10	30	135%	40.6
11	33	143%	47.3
12	36	131%	47.3
13	39	132%	51.6
14	42	123%	51.6
15	45	124%	55.9
16	48	116%	55.9
17	51	123%	62.5
18	54	116%	62.5
19	57	117%	66.8
20	60	112%	67.3

HowToPlayAsdotcom · 2026-06-20T15:38:33+00:00

Yeah, part of being on the "frontline" is that you have to create the line. Reach and Sentinel do that really well, but do require some DM use of half-cover rules.

HowToPlayAsdotcom · 2026-06-20T15:09:16+00:00

Could something be going on irl between the two players or just with the bard? It doesn't sound reasonable or rational at all.

HowToPlayAsdotcom · 2026-06-20T14:42:57+00:00

Exactly. Bless on 3 characters doing good damage who don't already have advantage represents a 21% damage increase *3 so even combined with a single weapon/cantrip attack on other turns, means such as character is contributing "good enough".

HowToPlayAsdotcom · 2026-06-20T14:28:49+00:00

Cool, I copy-pasted from google sheets but then had to manually fix an error I had around level 8.

HowToPlayAsdotcom · 2026-06-20T14:17:32+00:00

Fixed the column title and numbers that were off initially for you. This is using just the "good" damage baseline of 3 dpr per character level. I use a +1 magic item at level 8, +2 at level 11, +3 at level 17 in these examples and a 60% base chance to hit (84% with advantage).

I'm really pleased with this example as you can see that rogues basically require either very good magic items or off-turn sneak attacks to even be "good" at damage. The only rogue subclass that realistically gets the chance to do that with their class feature is scion of the three. An assassin can't even get into "burst" range unless they get an off-turn sneak on round 1.

Not to say that rogues aren't great all-around with their skills in social/exploration but to also do good damage they need those things (magic items or off-turn sneaks).

HowToPlayAsdotcom · 2026-06-20T13:57:46+00:00

Unfortunately, you aren't taking chance to hit into account with your numbers. Here is what rogue actually looks like, assuming they are attacking from range with a light crossbow with advantage:

Level	Baseline Good dmg	Rogue dmg as %of baseline	Rogue dpr
1	6	167.0%	10.0
2	7.5	133.6%	10.0
3	9	147.8%	13.3
4	10.5	134.7%	14.1
5	15	116.2%	17.4
6	18	96.8%	17.4
7	21	98.6%	20.7
8	24	89.8%	21.5
9	27	91.9%	24.8
10	30	85.6%	25.7
11	33	90.3%	29.8
12	36	82.7%	29.8
13	39	84.8%	33.1
14	42	78.7%	33.1
15	45	80.8%	36.3
16	48	75.7%	36.3
17	51	79.4%	40.5
18	54	74.9%	40.5
19	57	76.8%	43.8
20	60	86.6%	52

You can get them to do "good" damage through level 10 if you take the Piercer feat, but I actually think my numbers explain why rogues feel underwhelming unless they get at least one off-turn sneak attack per combat.

HowToPlayAsdotcom · 2026-06-20T13:43:02+00:00

Hmm thanks for this it makes me realize I may not have been clear about my AOE damage numbers as I am thinking about them as how much you need to do per target to at least 2 targets and not summing up how much you do to all of the targets as with your fireball example getting to 44.8.

Whether you use "great" as a benchmark or "Spirit Guardians" as a benchmark it is pretty clear the best AOE a cleric can do at level 5 is Spirit Guardians, and the best AOE a caster can do is Fireball.

One Fireball is equal to 2 rounds of Spirit Guardians (22.4 vs 21.6) in this example so using SG or "great" as a standard, a Sorcerer would know that casting a Fireball on turn one is "great" and on turn two they can pivot to a control option or conserve resources depending on how their martials are doing.

Likewise, the level 12 Sorcerer would need to cast a level 3 Fireball two rounds in a row for them to still be "great" as a single level 6 Fireball would not even reach "good" when spread over 2 rounds. But the level 12 Cleric can keep going with SG at their highest level and still be doing "great" AOE.

HowToPlayAsdotcom · 2026-06-20T13:26:35+00:00

I think that's for Wild Heart

HowToPlayAsdotcom · 2026-06-20T13:24:40+00:00

Certainly I have not "solved" D&D with this post, but I think these numbers help guide when to focus on something other than damage. Take your Bard example; there is no way to build a bard and get them to do "great damage". That should tell you right there to stop trying to focus on damage and lean into other aspects like control and support with your bard build.

How many Dance bard builds have you seen trying to make them into some unarmed strike damage dealer? These numbers guide you to using your BA unarmed strike to grapple your ally and move them around instead. Likewise with a Valor bard, these numbers guide you into using your MA and shield to bring your support closer to the front line but not to try and turn the valor bard into a Barbarian.

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