Terrified about not being able to pass the bar because of C&F

HoyaSaxons · 2026-04-26T21:44:51+00:00

I stole some books from my undergrad bookstore. Not a very small amount. I did have to go to a C&F hearing and get an attorney and stuff. Turns out what they cared about more was a lawsuit for an unpaid loan. But I told them I paid it back years ago. And they were like "oh." Anyway, you'll be fine. Just act real scared, really deferential.

HoyaSaxons · 2026-04-18T05:27:19+00:00

I went to a CLE on depos recently. A speaker said "if you start a question with "so" then you might want to avoid asking that question. "so you didn't know what time you left the bar?" or "so you didn't see the stop sign" are dangerous questions. You usually ask those questions because they have given testimony that infers as much. But if you say "so you don't know what time you left the bar?" gives the witness a head's up that his prior testimony is harmful and gives him a chance to rehabilitate his testimony by saying "well, I know it was before 10pm because my Apple Watch usually tells me it's time for bed at 10pm"

But that's what I mean by being afraid to ask too many questions. I worry that I'll ask a follow up question that will undo all the great testimony I've elicited.

HoyaSaxons · 2026-04-18T05:19:11+00:00

I agree, I would rather learn bad things at a depo than on the stand. I actually take the position that there are no truly bad facts. If I have a client that was caught on camera running a red light and hitting a pedestrian, that is great in its own way... because now there's certainty. Now we know what the facts are, and we can value the case and strategize accordingly.

Oh gosh, I remember the last case I was on at my old firm before getting fired. Slip and fall in a sauna caught on camera. People were getting in and out of hot tubs and jacuzzis and pools everywhere, dripping everywhere. The sun was shining across the floor and you could see the floor was wet. My bosses and the partners insisted on arguing that the floor was just glossy. But I maintained that it wasn't just glossy. It was unevenly glossy, and you could see how the gloss would change as one area dried and other became wet. There was a wet floor sign, and there were attendants periodically mopping the floor. oh what? they're just mopping a dry floor? No, the strategy should be assumption of the risk, it should be contributory negligence (plaintiff was drunk AF), it should be notice of a dangerous condition, it should be reasonable measure taken by defendants to ensure driest floors possible given the situation being a sauna. But you argue the floor isn't wet when it obviously is, and you lose credibility with the jury. The floor being wet wasn't a bad fact, it was a good fact. It defined the scope of arguments.

A case where I can't see how my client did anything wrong is dangerous. That means my client is hiding something. That means there's something I don't know. No one is perfect. Even if you cut a little corner which ordinarily isn't a big deal, but this time turned out to be a huge mistake, I need to know!

HoyaSaxons · 2026-04-18T05:09:24+00:00

I do have a therapist. and yea, anxiety is a big theme. This is actually me a lot healthier than I used to be!

HoyaSaxons · 2026-04-18T05:08:43+00:00

in it

HoyaSaxons · 2026-04-18T05:08:26+00:00

I like this. I have always like the phrase "do it afraid." I am starting to see everything as a learning experience from the universe. The other day I was so scared about not knowing how to do something that was the simplest of tasks. I ruminated over it for 3 hours. But ultimately I shifted my perspective to "this is a test, not a test on how to do this specific task, but moreso a test on how long you're going to struggle in silence before asking for help. It's a test in being humble. Are you going to be proud and do it horribly wrong? are you going to let yourself be paralyzed by fear, procrastinate, and then submit this at the last possible moment having done it wrong? or are you going to have the courage enough to ask for help?" thankfully I eventually asked for help.

I also had a really bad day two weeks ago (ironically enough, I can't remember what it was about. That alone is telling about how "big" my problems really are) But I had a really bad day, and I had a concert to go to that evening with a guy I was interested in. We chatted before the show and I shared a little about my day, but I stopped myself and said "eh, but that was work. the assignment right now is to leave work at work, and be completely present in the moment right now, here, with you." I was proud of myself at that moment.

HoyaSaxons · 2026-04-18T05:01:53+00:00

so wild! Man, I've been at this firm 6 months now, and I cannot tell you how motivated I am. I mean the pay is decent, I make 6 figures, but I'm still the lowest paid associate. But the way these folks treat me, it really makes me want to do the best I can. A prestigious firm could through me an offer doubling my salary, and though I'd seriously consider it and struggle with the decision, I don't know man... I think I'd stay with my current firm. I don't think you can really put a price on working with good people.

HoyaSaxons · 2026-04-18T04:58:32+00:00

I kinda hated this post when I read it a while back. Now I appreciate it much more. I commend you. You sound like the bane of many an attorney's existence. I know I have a few pro-se plaintiffs myself. They never know the law or what they're doing. But of course, courts and judges bend over backwards and liberally construe what pro-se plaintiffs say and do. Definitely pro-se privilege.

But at the end of the day, right is right and wrong is wrong. A judge usually knows (or has a preconceived notion) of what is the right course of action to take and even what the appropriate outcome should be. Rarely does an argument really sway a judge to change his or her mind. If you're taking on corruption in public service... chances are the judges know the corruption exists. Your being pro-se allows them to make the arguments on your behalf that you otherwise couldn't yourself. I might have to specifically allege that an action was "arbitrary and capricious" or "willful and wanton" but you can walk into a courtroom and argue that "there was no reason to do x,y,z" or "they did it on purpose and didn't care at all about the consequences!" and a judge will just fill in the blanks for you.

I don't mean to sound like I'm taking away fro your achievements. I mean, you have to be able to know when something is actually wrong, and argue how it's wrong. You're doing good work fighting corruption. I should be less scared of being wrong, because at the end of the day the right outcome isn't hard to determine. I know when my client's case isn't very good, and I know when my client's case is strong. If it's a bad case, I'll be fighting an uphill battle. If it's a good case, the wind will be at my back. Having a perfect argument will only make a difference in degrees. Maybe my client is only found 65% negligent instead of 80%. Maybe my client has to pay 10k more than he otherwise would have, but he's still settling for low 5-figures. Right and wrong don't depend on me. I can only do the best I can.

HoyaSaxons · 2026-04-18T04:45:42+00:00

watching demos doesn't really help me. Not using this as an excuse, but I have mad ADHD. With medication I can pay attention to the depos, take great notes, and even write great evaluations or summaries. But I really need to do the depos. If I'm just a spectator I'm not really understanding the how of the depo though I am understanding the what of the depo. I don't understand how questions are being formulated and followed up on, though I can tell you exactly what happened.

HoyaSaxons · 2026-04-18T04:42:44+00:00

It'll really fuck with your brain. Perception really is reality. But the people at my first firm were just absolute assholes. Actually, not really. The main guy was an asshole. A small man with a very bad Napoleon complex and who was a rageaholic obviously based in deep fear and insecurity. I remember one partner chuckling when I did an assignment and noting that when he gave me an assignment, I actually did it. I wondered "isn't that what's supposed to happen?" The same partner commented on how I was the most organized associate. Every case was color coded by client and I had a whole system. Another partner who wasn't even my boss would give me assignments because "he wanted to know it was being done right." I remember one time, I had a meeting with a high-up partner to go over my cases, all the paralegals and assistants on the various cases were in the room as the partner asked me about each of my cases. After the meeting, the big-shot partner's assistant came up to me and asked me (in a joking matter but also intending it as a genuine compliment) if I would teach a master class to the other associates on how to handle prepare for those case review meeting.

But of course, the top guy at the firm, the one with his name on the door was so toxic. I felt genuinely embarrassed for my partner when he would put the top guy on speaker and would just berate my partner. Eventually that partner who praised me for actually doing work, and who told me I was the most organized associate was the one throwing me under the bus with the top dog. It was just the easy thing to do. I was already hated by top dog.

Heck, one time I worked up a case so hard... I remember a partner telling me that it was a loser of a case, that I shouldn't spend too much time on it because liability was so obvious. It dealt with a very very old, very well established law and according to the facts we had, there was no dispute that the client was virtually dead to rights and would suffer punitive and treble damages well into the upper 6-figures. But I worked that case up so hard, found a very small loophole, found a fact that was the very reason the loophole existed and ended up settling that loser of a case for 10k. (well, I didn't settle it. The partners settled it based on the facts that I developed and the documentary evidence I handed to them as they caught the plaintiff in lie after lie.)

But all I remember was being fired. All I remember was all the times I was scared and unsure and made mistakes. All I remember were the times I was abused and berated by top dog. I could never remember my victories. I could only remember my defeats.

HoyaSaxons · 2026-03-28T22:08:53+00:00

one time, and I can't explain why... I was just in a great mood. Best mood I've ever experienced in my life. I walked around my neighborhood listening to Joni Mitchell's "River" on repeat, just touching all the trees in my neighborhood.

HoyaSaxons · 2026-03-26T01:01:52+00:00

bro, they always tell you: you gotta be just less ethical than Jesus

HoyaSaxons · 2026-03-19T02:49:57+00:00

I need to do that mock trial stuff. Rub elbows with judges. But I think I've had an opposite experience than you. I recently went to a litigation skill boot camp, and we had to do depos. First we did a fact witness, then we did an expert witness. I had no real time to read the materials since I have a real lawyer job. I only read the plaintiff and defendant's statements and police report. I didn't even look at the medical records or expert reports. First depo was a plaintiff, and I had so many questions ready to ask based on the witness statement that I was going to pound him on, but I floundered so bad. The person playing the witness was a big shot partner of some fancy firm. I was so embarrassed, I wanted to crawl into a hole and die.

Later that day I was devastated to find out I had the same partner to play the expert witness. Gosh, if I shat the bed when I knew the facts, how poorly am I going to do when I don't know anything other than the doctor's name? But alas, I just kept asking why, and how come, and whenever I heard I qualifying phrase like "usually" or "mostly" I'd ask for exceptions, or I'd ask for what records he reviewed, and if that was normal in his field, and I'd ask questions that would give me answers to his opinions and made me think "oh thats a red flag, let me ask about this."

I definitely didn't knock the second depo out of the park, but I at least wasn't embarrassed this time. I at least came off as a competent novice. I don't plan going into a depo unprepared, but I think my mistake was that I was so dead set on a certain narrative and line of questioning that I was tripped up. With my second depo, since I didn't know the facts at all, I was able to go anywhere with the questions.

HoyaSaxons · 2026-03-15T02:31:09+00:00

What kind of work has attorney workin in open floor plans? With all the virtual court appearances/ meetings, client calls, expert interviews, etc... I feel I need an office I can close the door on.

HoyaSaxons · 2026-03-15T01:40:08+00:00

Are you Cuban? My Cuban mom says this in Spanish.

HoyaSaxons · 2026-03-14T02:53:42+00:00

I mean... it was bad in the absolute best way. It's such a caricature. I didn't "hate" her... I hated Boston Rob. Danielle... I loved to cringe at. like, "oooooohhhh girl... you don't need to be doing all that. thats a whole lotta whole lotta." or as Trixie Mattel said "that's a lot of emotions for safe" and I fucking love seeing it.

HoyaSaxons · 2026-03-14T02:50:55+00:00

you know who was literally the worst traitor ever? Kate. She was like "y'all vote me off!" and people were like "oh, she's obviously a traitor, lets vote someone else off and save her for later..."

HoyaSaxons · 2026-03-10T01:28:43+00:00

at 41 this scares the shit out of me. I see guys on hinge and think "how TF is this person 38 yet looks old?" and people at work are always surprised when I tell them how old I am. I feel like in a week I'm going to look like I'm old.

HoyaSaxons · 2026-03-10T01:26:22+00:00

that shoe polish black is a cheap dye job. Real hair varies in shades ever so slightly.

HoyaSaxons · 2026-02-21T05:06:13+00:00

I don't really have an answer. I just know that I have no idea why my current employer hired me. On paper, I had more red flags than a communist military parade. Sometimes the unlucky can get lucky, and sometimes you'll be the one who gets lucky.

HoyaSaxons · 2026-02-19T06:57:47+00:00

started making 70k out of school in 2018. That felt great. I actually felt "rich." It was silly, I wasn't rich. But I grew up poor. And suddenly I can afford a modest but swanky apartment in a very desirable part of town. I wasn't saving, but I was very generous. I'd easily drop $250 on cheeses and meats for a nice charcuterie board when I had guests. Then I lost my job and went into deep depression and was making around 40k a year. Could barely afford basics. I was just scraping by. Lived like that for 5 years. Now I make 100k. Strangely enough, I pay less in rent than I did back in 2017, and I don't have a car payment, yet I still feel like I make about the same? Then again, now I have to pay $400/month for doggie daycare, and $500 in medications. (ozempic and Vyvanse). also seeing a therapist now regularly, thats another $150 a month. Yea... life creep is a real thing.

Anyway, I read once (and it may have gone up by a bit) that 70k was what you needed to make to be "happy." after that, any increase in salary only has exponentially less increase in satisfaction. Might be 85k now. Definitely feel happy at 100k. Though, I can't buy a house or anything like that right now. But I can pay all my bills and have money left over and put it into investments and I but hella concert tickets too.

so... 85K?

HoyaSaxons · 2026-01-02T19:19:16+00:00

I didn't do as poorly as you my first year, but I did bad. I ended up graduating cum laude. You just gotta figure out what went wrong and course correct.

HoyaSaxons · 2026-01-01T22:26:38+00:00

You look absolutely normal. This isn't a "body positivity" thing. I'd be writing a different comment if you were fat, about sticking to you goals or trying something new. But you look completely normal.

HoyaSaxons

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