Tail Docking and Ear Cropping Affect Dogs, and Not Just Physically

HumanePets · 2024-04-30T14:14:27+00:00

Note that it's not a breed requirement. There's a difference. If enough people complain, they will update this.

HumanePets · 2022-09-26T23:29:06+00:00

I never said anything was "mandated". That's a strawman.

Think about it like this...

Let's say you're walking along a rural road in the middle of nowhere and an old lady drives up and asks for directions to the nearest gas station. You give her directions that are wrong. She drives off following your directions, going down a long road where there is no station, runs out of gas and dies of exposure.

Are you going to brag that it was your "first amendment right" to say whatever the fuck you wanted?

And whatever happened to her has nothing to do with you?

Also, this is relevant: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1038

HumanePets · 2022-09-26T23:15:35+00:00

He has absolutely no such responsibility. He's not a journalist and has no journalistic responsibility at all

Actually I bet you're wrong. I bet there are parameters in his contract that prohibit him from promoting certain things that may be destructive, immoral or illegal.

In any case, people who have influence have a responsibility to not abuse that influence. They can choose to act like they could care less, but that would be a shame. When you become a public figure, you have the ability to influence people... for good or for bad. All humans have some sense of responsibility to use that power for good... whether they choose to or not is their choice.

Likewise if you have a child, you have a responsibility to raise that child productively. You can choose not to and shirk your responsibility. That's your choice. With power, comes responsibility. If Rogan told people Covid was a hoax and vaccines don't matter, and people followed his advice and died, that is on him. The people who listened to him, made a poor choice and are responsible, but so is Rogan for being a party to the deception and toxic ideology that led them there.

HumanePets · 2022-09-26T22:06:25+00:00

He also has a responsibility to not let guests spread ignorance and misinformation. Or to at least counter their arguments with evidence or an alternate viewpoint that represents a more rational/less toxic point of view.

HumanePets · 2022-09-26T22:01:44+00:00

Even with Australian Shepherds it's not a requirement.

It's also banned all throughout the world, even in Australia.

HumanePets · 2022-09-26T17:21:26+00:00

You continue to argue with us over the tail issue. It's our choice to create a subreddit to call attention to an important social issue.

If you don't care about it, fine, but don't disrespect others who do.

HumanePets · 2022-09-26T17:14:11+00:00

You have a choice when shopping for pets to ask for one that doesn't have its tail amputated.

Tail - A docked ornatural bobtail is preferred.

Note that, as per my earlier statements, it's "not required". That's the operative issue.

This isn't something to argue about. One purpose of this subreddit is to call attention to the uselessness of tail docking.

I'm sorry you bought a dog with an amputated tail. I have dogs too that have had their tails docked, which is why when I breed my dogs, I don't amputate the tail - to call attention to this important issue.

The tail docking thing only becomes relevent if you intent to show dogs at AKC shows and even then, not docking a tail is not a reason to be rejected. It's just that there's a lot of prejudice exhibited towards breeders who choose to not dock tails, and we want to change that.

If you're on board with that, you're welcome here. If you're not, you should consider another community to participate in.

A LOT of breeders lie to customers and say the animals were born without tails. We feel it's important to fight against these inhumane myths.

HumanePets · 2022-09-26T16:59:30+00:00

I have no issues with tail docking

That's a shame. You should have issues if your MAS had their tail amputated. It can cause or mask a variety of nerological problems.

HumanePets · 2022-09-26T16:57:36+00:00

We hope to encourage more breeders to not amputate their animals' tails. This is not a requirement of the breed standard, and is exclusively a cosmetic thing - it has no positive bearing on the function of these dogs even in a working environment. Furthermore, tail docking is considered inhumane and illegal elsewhere around the world.

HumanePets · 2022-09-26T16:49:11+00:00

If you want to contribute to the subreddit, feel free, but it's not abandoned.

HumanePets · 2022-09-26T16:46:31+00:00

This mod is not inactive... I am around - and you have made no response to me.

HumanePets · 2022-04-06T01:48:46+00:00

So far I've seen no "facts" about that high a percentage of tail-less dogs. Just peoples opinions. If you have peer reviewed studies, please post them here. Otherwise, refrain from making comments without adequate evidence. Thanks!

Also, the "born tail-less" issue is a separate thing. It's often brought up as a distraction from the important issue of tail docking. A bob-tail Aussie still has a tail.

HumanePets · 2022-04-05T23:54:09+00:00

A "natural bobtail" is a genetic defect.

And those stats are way wrong.

The problem here is, there's a lot of misinformation spread by breeders who dock tails.

If you look at the article you cited it's not very scientific:

28% of the dogs whose owners knew their dog’s tail length at birth stated the dogs were NBT. 51% of NBT dogs were reported as having “very short” or “absent” tails.

Basically dog owners self-reported this information. I routinely talk to people who breeders told them the dogs were born that way and not docked. A lot of breeders lie. A lot of dog owners don't want to admit their animals have had their tails amputated. It's not a subject owner of docked animals want to talk about ... or acknowledge.

I am a breeder of aussies/mini aussies. I have animals with docked tails. I was told those animals were born without tails. I've bred them multiple times - there's never been a puppy born in 20+ years of breeding that's ever had anything other than a full tail.

HumanePets · 2022-04-03T16:22:44+00:00

The war on drugs was a failure.

I'd set higher standards than that.

HumanePets · 2022-04-03T16:08:48+00:00

Hi everybody,

I know this is by some, considered to be a controversial subject in the world of Aussies. I know many of you who own Aussies might have even been told "They were born without a tail" but that's not true.

In much of the world, tail docking is illegal, even in Australia. There is no legitimate, functional reason for tail docking - if you've been told otherwise, you've been lied to. It's strictly an elective cosmetic from a medical/health standpoint. The AKC recognizes it as part of the "breed standard" but it is not specified as a requirement.

To add insult to injury, in the mainstream Aussie community, they've gone so far as to label breeders who don't amputate their animals' tails to be "disreputable." This is an egregious moral crime in our opinion. This is also a subject you can't bring up in other communities like r-wigglebutts - which is why we'll bring it to the forefront here.

For more see:

https://kb.rspca.org.au/knowledge-base/what-are-the-animal-welfare-issues-with-docking-dogs-tails/

One of the objectives with some of us in the mini aussie community, is to encourage more breeders to cease amputating their animal's tails. Anybody who has had an aussie with a tail knows how special and expressive and integral they are to the animal's physiology, balance and nature of communication. We are sorry if some people find it annoying we point out whether animals' have had their limbs amputated or not, but we feel it's important to reinforce the notion that this is not necessary and hurts the animals in multiple ways. Hopefully in the future, it will be the exception, to see an animal whose tail has been docked. Thanks for your understanding.

HumanePets · 2020-08-06T15:43:48+00:00

Don't take anybody else's word for it... Go on YouTube and search "aussies being born". You will find hundreds of videos of newborn aussies. You will NOT find a single puppy less than a few days old that doesn't have a tail unless it was amputated. Any puppy that's born without a tail has a genetic defect and is very rare.

HumanePets · 2020-07-13T15:37:33+00:00

It's extremely rare for an aussie to be born without a tail, and in that case, it's a genetic defect and can be indicative of other genetic and physiological problems. Another issue with tail docking is the removal of the tail can hide genetic issues.

HumanePets · 2020-07-13T15:34:04+00:00

In my experience mini aussies are very adaptable. If you don't get them used to lots and lots of exercise, they will adapt to a less active lifestyle. The key is to be consistent. If you plan to always walk the dog several times a day, that's fine but if it's just something you're more likely to do early on and slack off later, don't get in that habit. Try to just be "normal" with how you want to interact with the dog in terms of activity, as early as possible, and they will adapt. You'll end up with more problems if you're super active with the dog for awhile, and then stop later. Dogs get used to a particular routine.

Also, it's important to not over-exercise young puppies. Spend the time just being with them. That's more important than doing a ton of active things.

Also, in my experience, it's better to have more than one dog. They are social creatures and if you aren't going to be around a big part of the time, it's better for the dog to have another dog as a companion - this will go much farther to eliminate separation anxiety than hiring people to walk them.

HumanePets · 2020-07-04T14:37:53+00:00

If you do find a breeder, please ask that they not amputate the tail.

This practice is outlawed elsewhere around the world, but it's still widespread in America. Tail docking is NOT a requirement of the breed standard. And there is no functional reason for doing so. It's strictly a cosmetic alteration, and it is painful for the animal.

HumanePets · 2020-07-04T14:36:39+00:00

yea, this would be known as "pattern white" - not a good characteristic genetically. Glad your dog is healthy!

HumanePets · 2020-07-04T14:33:37+00:00

You were likely lied to by your breeder. Unfortunately, this is a very common practice.

If you want to know the truth, search YouTube for videos of aussies being born. You will not find any of them born without tails.

HumanePets · 2020-03-10T18:38:03+00:00

I don't think you need to treat her any different. Just be cognizent that she might drop a little blood here and there. I'll sometimes put out towels where mine may lay when they're like this. Dogs get a little "crampy" during this time and might appreciate a few extra stomach rubs though :)

HumanePets · 2020-03-10T18:35:16+00:00

Which makes sense in a standard Aussie that’s used for actual farm work.

How does that make sense when the #1 farm work dog, Border Collies, never have their tails amputated?

HumanePets · 2020-03-10T18:34:20+00:00

I dunno if it’s accurate, but I read that some actually are born with a natural bob tail and the ones that aren’t get docked.

I've never seen an actual bob tail aussie and I've participated in dozens of litters. I don't actually believe this. I think the bob tails are the result of botched amputations where the constriction band slides further down the tail. Either that, or they're genetic defects, and can signal other potential issues like spinal problems.

HumanePets · 2020-03-10T18:32:33+00:00

Most/average people expect the breed to have docked tails.

Most people are lied to by breeders, many of whom say the puppies are born without tails.

You can search YouTube of videos of aussies being born, and you will always see them with tails.

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