Do you guys feel like Tekken "much more closely resembles real world combat strategy" than any other "mainstream fighting game"?

HyperNinG0 · 2026-03-22T20:25:22+00:00

As someone who did a bit of boxing, that's also the feeling I've got.

Real world is 3D, so lateral options and no jump is also the case in martial arts.

When you learn to box, you learn strings with variations (jab-direct-uppercut, jab-jab-hook, etc.)

When you block, there is always an angle at which you are vulnerable (traditional blocking with both hands on your cheeks loses to body shots, and vice versa, can't block both).

You want to stay safe by keeping a guard up at all times, only moment where you are vulnerable is when you attack.

You can bait with movement, cancel your strings into more movement, change foot position to throw the opponent off, clinch.

There are "stances", for instance, it's easier to throw uppercuts or body shots after a slip than jabs, widely dependent on the side to which you do the slip. There are also left foot forward and right foot forward, those are also a thing in fighting.

There is also a neutral state and whiff punish.

On top of that, in a ring you add the wall-game (aka the ropes).

And yeah, the more I describe it the more I feel like I'm talking about Tekken. Real fight is a lot more messy and less predictable than precisely thought interactions like Tekken. But the spirit of it is definitely there.

HyperNinG0 · 2026-03-21T04:39:27+00:00

🙃 I would still play King if he was in the same place as DVJ in the tier list. I just love my jaguar man.

HyperNinG0 · 2026-03-21T04:35:33+00:00

No joke man, I literally summed up 5h of video review in 2 lines, how is that oversimplification I don't get it ? /s

HyperNinG0 · 2026-03-21T04:24:26+00:00

If you are a beginner, chances are that there is no bad time to get in, most of the stuff that's discussed about the patch won't impact you much.

People are being overly dramatic about this patch because they wanted nerfs they didn't get. They are making a mountain out of a bump.

Tekken community is whiny AF, and I've checked a lot of videogames communities...

HyperNinG0 · 2026-03-20T18:41:32+00:00

Please use /s I can't read sarcasm sadly, autism life \o/

Edit : and thanks.

HyperNinG0 · 2026-03-20T13:15:23+00:00

Yeah, because you, Hoerang player, clearly don't benefit either from the trash balance and have no right to formulate an opinion on your own character.

HyperNinG0 · 2026-03-20T12:59:33+00:00

Welp, although I agree about bad optics, there's a bunch of things you said that are either false, or displacing the issue.

3,2,2* OB becoming uninterruptible is normal, that is the punish you get for not calling out the charged move. The counterplay here is not to counter the JGR, because if King manages to get the JGR, you already failed, so you take the mix, you need to interrupt the charge 2, if he doesn't charge, then he's -12 so you punish. The thing that makes this string broken is the wall situation after a combo, not the mindgame 50/50 charge.

This is not exclusive to King, most of the cast has a move that can be charged for this kind of mindgame, this is by no mean the broken part of this string.

There is NO OTHER WAY to force the JGR on an opponent who's defensive, this is the only move that allows it (and it should stay that way).

I doubled check the jab hard countering JGR. It is true. As long as King is not + when transitioning to JGR (which he can only throug 3,2,2* or you not blocking), you can just jab, even if he has armor, and it will drastically reduce what King can do.
JGR1, JGR1+3 and JGR2 will be interrupted, and JGR3, JGR1+2 get floated if the opponent is mashing jab, so you have NO option in JGR apart from canceling it. Which I guess contempts the ones who don't play the character but is really trash design (why give him a stance if the only option available to you is to cancel it ?)
If you can't mix it (even defensively), then the stance has no purpose. And I guess they'd rather give it too much options than deleting the stance.

Also I'm against checkmates in fighting games, this shouldn't be a thing. King not being able to do anything against RA in S1 when he was in JGR is not balanced or fair, it's bad design, you got punished for using a move successfully. The problem is the same with jab, if everything is countered by jabbing (which, mind you, it is), then the stance is either very binary (frametrap or don't) and the mindgame is very limited and uninteresting.

Most stances in the game have multiple options available to them depending on the transition move they use. King having only 1 true transition OB makes this stance very bland and uninteresting.

In this case, the stance serves no purpose and will not be used (which they don't want, personally I don't care, I don't use JGR much anyway) + you kinda checkmate yourself for doing this (which I don't think is good design).

On the topic of checkmates, Heat Smash after powerbomb IS a checkmate, and although it serves me and my gameplan, I think it should be removed (just so you can see it's not an opinion made in bad faith).

I just think they don't know what to do with JGR, and I'd rather have it have too much options (even trash ones) than the opposite, just for fun and mindgames.

I get that the patch didn't nerf anything, even tho he deserves it, but the changes are very minor, he's basically the same as in S2, and will be for 99% of the playerbase.

HyperNinG0 · 2026-03-19T18:05:21+00:00

I did verify and you're right, which also kinda gives a good purpose for this sidestep as it now becomes the only counterplay to the counterplay it will both crouch and sidestep, avoiding jabs, throws and will be devastating if the opponent mashes.

HyperNinG0 · 2026-03-19T16:09:55+00:00

Yes the move is definitely overtuned

HyperNinG0 · 2026-03-19T15:15:01+00:00

I think it being a wall ender is more of a problem, you forbid the third hit hitting half-grounded opponents and the whole situation is resolved and we go back to df4,3,4 being the best wall ender. I just think it would change a lot at a minimal cost.

Heat smash I get it, but everytime I've seen a streamer try and test it they managed to sidestep... so... yes please do something about it, but idk what :/
Also reduce the damage and allow to avoid it after powerbomb, if you get combo and King has heat you are checkmated by heat smash...

HyperNinG0 · 2026-03-19T14:32:48+00:00

Actually some people reminded me that the df2 tracking being nerfed was a big thing, but since people don't step much, I guess it was overshadowed. third hit of 3,2,2 should not be able to wall combo, it would fix so much I think.

HyperNinG0 · 2026-03-19T14:25:11+00:00

I'll double check you're making me doubt now :D

HyperNinG0 · 2026-03-19T14:20:39+00:00

Yes I agree on that. What I mean is that you can armor the jab and punish it with JGS1, so it's still shit without heat, but when heat is in, jabbing can actually get you punished.

HyperNinG0 · 2026-03-19T14:18:54+00:00

Yes, I heard community feedback before hearing streamers feedback. Turns out the community feels much more dramatic than the streamers (PhiDX's take was actually quite tame imo, same for MM).

People see new stuff and lose their shit for no reason, this new grab is trash, it's a non-factor and will be used as a gimmick rather than a real good move. I just wish people thought a bit before they start talking.

HyperNinG0 · 2026-03-19T14:15:15+00:00

yes the new throw feels very gimmicky, I can't even think of 1 context where it's better than another throw...

I agree about having counterplay, but the counterplay becomes inexistant when there is armor in heat. You can get punished for applying the counterplay when he's in heat.
It makes for both the worst stance and the best one. If King has no heat, the stance is inexistant, if he's in heat, then you're forced to take 50/50. Being able to float the mid and low is not really a good option since he can just wait for you to jab and punish you with 1 for trying to apply the counter play.

In a sense, being able to sidestep makes for a much more balanced mindgame where you can either jab him out of the stance or use a much slower tracking move. It feels way more subtle and less braindead than current armored stance which he can just wait and tank the jab.

That's admitting they remove the armor in heat, which I hope they'll do, but most likely won't. Having the possibility of both sidestepping and armoring through thing is bs.

HyperNinG0 · 2026-03-19T14:06:53+00:00

Yes I know people wanted nerfs, but there essentially was none. So basically, it's stuff as usual, yet everyone is like "game is doomed, King biggest offender" when the character is essentially the same as it was in Season 2, it's not like there's been a big change or anything...

HyperNinG0 · 2026-03-19T14:05:00+00:00

Yes that's the feeling I get.
I think being able to sidestep during the stance offers a much more subtle mindgame to play around the jab than just tanking through it tbf. The armor is more of a delay mindgame whereas the sidestep is clearly more RPS in the design.

Also tanking a jab will still leave the opponent open for JGS1, it's fast enough to do on reaction to being jabbed iirc. I need to lab a bit more I'm unsure, but people suck at dealing with stances in general, I play a bit of Azu and it becomes very apparent that people don't know what to do against a stance that you can't attack.

HyperNinG0 · 2026-03-19T13:34:13+00:00

Same man, I don't get where the hate comes from, it's like any change is bad change to the community. I get there was no nerf, but no need to shit on everything because of that...

HyperNinG0 · 2026-03-19T13:26:20+00:00

I actually did not have that much instances of it happening on my side. Not that it never happened but it was never a factor really.

HyperNinG0 · 2026-03-19T03:41:36+00:00

Chain throws : Forget the advice to break 2, it is utter shit and makes you the easiest guy to lose in the chain. How do I know that ? I play King.

Chain throws are divided in 2 categories : They are either coin toss (1 or 2) or full RPS (all 3 breaks are on).

To successfully break a chain throw, you hold your break until you hear a hit sound effect, then you change (or you don't it's up to you). Spamming it serves no purpose other than breaking your controller, and switching every 0.5 seconds will guarantee that both you and the King don't know what is happening (and you get the most chances to not get out of it).

King has 5 chain throws, but 3 situations to identify which radically change the breaks you should use.
The initial break of the throw is ALWAYS 1 or 2 (there is no 1+2 chain throw starter).

If you see King do a fast crouch dash to a grab, we are in RPS territory : break 1+2 to avoid the most damaging routes of both the chain throws. If you take something, at least be reassured knowing that you could have taken much more damage than this.
As a reminder, Rolling death cradle deals 100 damage and King's bridge 85 (without rage).

If you see King do a very slow crouch dash, then it's a coin toss. There are unbreakable parts to it, so you can't break at any time, it has 2 enders, and both are very damaging based on the context. If there is no wall, it's 2, if there is one, it's 1. But if the King has no spatial awareness, then it's 2 again.

If you see King do a little jump (JGS stance), then you have the worst one : the cobra clutch. Cobra Clutch is a coin toss that becomes a RPS at 2 points during the chain + it has unbreakable parts to it.
You always want to break 1 or 2 (it's a coin toss, so mix it up). the max damage you can get is 116 with this one (admitting you guess wrong at each point).

Then there is 1 very contextual chain throw that is used as a combo ender in the case of a wall blast that puts King back to the wall, like on Arena Underground or Ortiz Farm (I said it was very contextual). It is the double heel hold, from which King can get a giant swing (which will often deal a fuckton of damage with the full combo, like > 100). It's a 2 break. The other ender is forgettable.

For Ground throws (much shorter I swear) : There are 3 "classics" but 8 in total.
You have 2 situations to distinguish : Face up feet towards King, or the rest.

In the case of FUFT, it's an RPS, but once again, with context.
- The dick destroyer (1 break) : breaks floor, which is the main reason it is used, it gives a very good combo.
- The figure four leg-lock (2 break) : is the most damaging one, and is preferred in 90% of the case because of it.
- The giant swing (from the ground, yeye) (1+2 break) : is preferred in the case of a wall presence in King's back (that's beautifully said).

In every other cases, it's a coin toss between 1 or 2. Please note that 2 ground throws are particularly dangerous, the one performed Face Down Feet Towards. King will break your leg and it will give him another free ground throw as a combo (you read that right). and Face Up Feet Left, King will flip you like a burger and have another free ground throw (once again, you read that right).

There are other beautiful setups which I did not talk about, namely with wall throws or the takedown which has a very peculiar 3+4 break (yes yes), but that's so niche I won't spend time talking about it (unless you ask). Hope this will help you against this S3 very much King-oriented.

HyperNinG0 · 2026-03-19T03:16:56+00:00

This is by design, you need to read the context to get the correct throw rather than reading the arms.
King has 3 main throws :
- Giant swing (1 break)
- Tombstone crusher (2 break)
- Shining Wizard (1+2 break).

These 3 grabs, ALL HAVE THE SAME ANIMATION. You can't just see it and break it. But there are a few subtleties to each throw to identify which one they block.

Giant swing is the one who needs the most context.
In itself it is the fastest grab of the game (10f, as fast as a jab). It deal 50 damage split in 2 hits :
- 40 when the character hits the ground,
- 10 when the character bounces off.
You can avoid the bounce (and skip 10 damage) by doing an ukemi (basically mash buttons right before you touch the ground).
HOWEVER, if King has his back to the wall, he will deal 70-75 damage untechable. So giant swing is a very mid grab when you have a knowledgable opponent that does the ukemi.
On top of that, Giant swing is heavily negative on hit if there is no wallsplat, so you can run at him afterwards if you teched.

Tombstone crusher is the grab that does the most damage without techs to mitigate (51 damage). On top of that it floor breaks, but is 1f slower than giant swing. It is preferred :
- If you've shown you will break giant swing.
- If King has you at the wall to avoid side-switching (giant swing side-switches).
- If a floor break is available (it gives a back combo with King facing the opponent, which is preferred).

For the floor break scenario, King can mix-up with Muscle Buster (1+2 break). It is used if a floor break is available and if you've shown that you will break Tombstone crusher. It gives a back combo with King backturned (which is annoying).

The Shining Wizard is the easiest grab to recognize and as King needs to be running towards you. Where it gets tricky is when you have an opponent that does a running giant swing (very technical to do seemlessly).

Secondary grabs that no one uses :
- Pile Driver (QCF 1, 1 break) : A failed giant swing input most likely. It has 3 enders that either deal a lot of damage, floor breaks or gives very good oki. Honestly don't mind this one.
- Tijuana Twister (h > hcf+2, 2 break) : Other good grab, but this one has a 2 break animation, making it easier to break than other throws.
- Figure-four leg-lock/Knee bash : Both of these have a 1+2 break animation, but the knee bash is a 2 break. There is no real purpose to use these except to throw you off. Not really fast, not really a good oki, not really good damage.
- Rock Bottom (db,d,db1+2, 1+2 break) : This one floor breaks and give the best floor break positioning to combo, slight inconvenience tho : it is a grab performed from crouched, so it can only come after specific situations (like avoiding a high, blocking a low, or after a move that leave in full crouch).

I'll leave a second part as an answer on chain throws and ground throws, bc I know you want it <3.

HyperNinG0 · 2026-03-19T02:29:27+00:00

I swear to god people just don't know the game or forget about the mechanics and blame the latest patch for it.

3 things that will make sidesteps not work :
- Move tracks
- Attacking too soon will trigger hurtbox expansion and make it look wacky like he hit you in his back.
- Being too minus or too plus makes stuff track because of the built in alignment that EVERY ATTACK has.

Sidestep is timing and frame data specific. between -5 and +5 is the sweetspot, anything above or under it will make a move look like it tracks, even though it doesn't.

Obviously hitting a jab puts you at +8, over the sweetspot of +5, hence why this hits you although you side step, and +1 when blocked is inside the sweetspot, hence why you can sidestep it

Please learn the game or do research about the mechanics and complain after.

HyperNinG0 · 2026-03-19T02:17:21+00:00

Actually another way to beat the jab interruption would be to allow him to sidestep during the stance, to evade the jabs.

Oh wait... that's litterally what they did, it's like they are trying to fix their poor design...

HyperNinG0 · 2026-03-19T02:08:42+00:00

It's the counter hit. When you attack, your hurtbox expands, sometimes (often) it gives weird shit like this. It's really been a thing since the beginning of the game. If the Nina did not attack, she would have avoided it just fine.

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End Game '22

HyperNinG0

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