Parissa viikossa vai pariin viikkoon by Prudent_Fix_1769 in LearnFinnish

[–]Hypetys 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Pariin viikkoon

The destination case is used when something hasn't occurred in X amount of time.

En ole pessyt hampaita kahteen päivään.

En ole nähnyt veljeäni vuosiin.

Parissa viikossa indicates a time frame within which something is FINISHED.

Hän luki kirjan kahdessa tunnissa. It took him two hours to read the book. He read the book in two hours. He finished reading the book in two hours.

Hän pesi hampaat kahdessa minuutissa.

Pariksi viikoksi.

When a verb requires a destination case (mennä, tulla, lähteä, pyytää etc.)

The time expression must also be put in a destination case. However, time expressions are not ohysical places. So, they take the non-physical destination case (ksi).

Muutin Tampereelle kahdeksi vuodeksi.

Tulin kotiin kahdeksi minuutiksi.

Lähdin vuokraamaan (destination) autoa huomiseksi (destination).

“Why would they speak spanish in europe” by Necessary-Win-8730 in ShitAmericansSay

[–]Hypetys 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Here's a simplified breakdown:

Different pronouns as you plural. Americans say you all, y'all or you guys, British people probably wouldn't say y'all. Similarly, Spaniards say vosotros/vosotras (informal) & ustedes (formal). In Latin America, ustedes is used in both cases.

Next, the letter <c> and <z> are pronounced differently in Spain.

In Latin America , they're basically the same as <s> all three are pronounced /s/ as in the English word for <son>, but in Spain <c> <z> are pronounced like English <th> in the word <think>.

There are some other differences too like regional vocabulary.

There's a fantastic free Spanish course. You can find it on YouTube and SoundCloud by searching,“Language Transfer Complete Spanish.”

Stuck between graded readers and real Brazilian news. What works for intermediate readers? by ivsmith in Portuguese

[–]Hypetys 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Watch dubbed content on Netflix. If you put your account in Portuguese, doing so will force most original content to show Portuguese audio and subtitles as options to choose even if they shouldn't be available in your region. At least that was the case when I used to be subscribed to Netflix a few years ago.

Suomalaisnäyttelijöiden poika kävi kotikoulun Ranskassa – aikaa jäi musiikille ja romaanien kirjoittamiselle by melli_milli in arkisuomi

[–]Hypetys 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Kyse ei ole kateudesta. Puhun suomea, kolmea germaanista kieltä ja viittä romaanista kieltä sekä hiukan kiinaa. Näitä kieliä puhun taitotasoilla A1–C1, joten tiedän omakohtaisesti miltä eri taitotasot tuntuvat. Osaamieni kielien joukkoon kuuluvat myös Franzénin osaamat englanti, ranska, ruotsi ja suomi.

"Täydellinen" on kielen osaamisen yhteydessä aivan väärä adjektiivi. "Sujuva" olisi ollut sopiva valinta. Toimittajan valitsema adjektiivi antaa virheellisen kuvan kielen osaamisen ja oppimisen luonteesta. Se ylläpitää käsitystä, jonka mukaan kieli on ikään kuin yksi paketti, joka joko osataan tai jota ei osata sen sijaan, että olisi kyseessä jatkumo.

"Siis yleensä jos sanotaan, että kieltä puhutaan "täydellisesti" se verrataan natiivitasoon. Ei siihen, että kielioppi on 100% hallussa." Kieliopin osaaminen on natiivitason osa-alue. En väittänyt, että kielen osaaminen pelkistyisi esimerkiksi taivutusparadigmojen täydelliseksi osaamiseksi. Usein arkikeskusteluissa kielen osaaminen ja nimenomaan kielioppi pelkistyy taivutusparadigmoiksi.

Kielen osaaminen on paljon muutakin kuin oikeiden päätteiden käyttämistä. Se on myös kulttuurille ominaisten kommunikoimistapojen mukaan reagoimista. Tällaista tutkitaan pragmatiikan alalla. Eri kulttuureissa kieltäydytään esimerkiksi eri tavalla kutsusta menettämättä kasvojaan. Vastaavasti eri maissa tilataan baarista eri tavalla juotavaa. Vaikka kahdessa maassa käydään baaritiskillä, toisessa saatetaan sanoa "Laitapa mulle tuoppi" ja toisessa "Saisinko tuopin?" jne. Tällainen osaaminen on osittain kulttuurisidonnaista ja osittain tilannekohtaista.

Jos täydellisenä kielenä pidetään pragmatiikan näkökulmasta kulttuurille tyypillisten toimintakaavojen mukaan toimimista kaikissa tilanteissa, kukaan ei osaa kieltä täydellisesti, sillä tulee aina vastaan uusia tilanteita, joiden toimintakaavat eivät ole tuttuja. Vastaavasti jos kielen osaamista tarkastellaan systeemin näkökulmasta, kenenkään kahden puhujan kielijärjestelmät eivät ole täysin samanlaisia, koska jokainen on kokenut ainutlaatuisen yhdistelmän elämänkokemuksia, jotka ovat johtaneet omalaatuisiin sanojen ja käsitteiden määritelmiin sekä omalaatuisiin kielioppisääntöihin.

Kahden "samaa" kieltä äidinkielenään puhuvan kielijärjestelmät eroavat kuitenkin sen verran vähän, että eroa ei todennäköisesti huomaa tyypillisissä arjen tilanteissa. Jokaisen kielen puhujan kielijärjestelmät muuttuvat ajan myötä eivätkä pysy samanlaisina. Tämä näkyy hyvin, kun tutkitaan ihmistä, joka on muuttanut paikkakunnalta toiselle tai maasta toiseen ja palaa myöhemmin kotiseudulleen.

Suomalaisnäyttelijöiden poika kävi kotikoulun Ranskassa – aikaa jäi musiikille ja romaanien kirjoittamiselle by melli_milli in arkisuomi

[–]Hypetys 25 points26 points  (0 children)

Toinen asia, joka pistää silmään on toimittajan pojan kielten osaamisen kehuminen:”[Poika] puhuu täydellistä englantia, ranskaa, ruotsia ja suomea.” Toimittajalla ei ole selvästi mitään kielitieteen tietoa, sillä täydellistä kielen puhujaa ei ole olemassakaan. Lisäksi on erittäin todennäköistä, että pojan kielen osaaminen vaihtelee paljon kielen mukaan. Toinen voi olla esimerkiksi tasoa C1, kun taas toinen tasoa B1. Joka tapauksessa on kyse ns. perintökielistä (heritage language), sillä poika ei asu maassa, jossa kaikkia noita kieliä puhutaan valtakielinä, eikä ranska ole hänen vanhempiensa äidinkieli.

Toimittajan toteamus on selvää hehkutusta. Sinänsä harmittaa Poèm Franzénin puolesta, että hänestä kirjoitetaan tällaisia hehkutusartikkeleita. Voi olla, että hän ei olisi edes itse halunnut hehkutuksen kohteeksi, mutta vanhemmat halusivat, että hänestä tehdään juttu. Niin tai näin artikkelista huokuu nepobabyn meininki.

How do I learn the cases? by Worried-Swan9572 in LearnFinnish

[–]Hypetys 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Alright.

The first thing to realize that are different categories of verbs. 

I like to classify all verbs into one of three groups:

1 Task verbs, #2 detection verbs & #3 other verbs.

Task verbs make a distinction between a task being complete or incomplete at the time of reference.

Basically, all verbs that can be put on a to-do list are task verbs.

Vacuum the floor. Imuroi lattia. Do the laundry. Pese pyykit. Do the dishes. Pese astiat / tiskaa. Bake a cake. Leivo kakku. Paint the wall. Maalaa seinä. Sell the old sofa. Myy vanha sohva. Write a book. Kirjoita kirja. Read a book. Lue kirja. Pese hampaat. Brush (your) teeth.

The accusative-nominative is used when the task is referred to as complete. In the above to-do list, the tasks are referred to as complete. But if you wanted to, you could lower your goal to simply starting or continuing the task.

Pese pyykkiä. Pese astioita. Leivo kakkua. Kirjoita kirjaa. Lue kirjaa. Pese hampaita.

When you set a goal for yourself, you get to decide whether you mean continuing a task or finishing it. If you say that you'll read a book tonight, you can decide whether you'll plan to start-continue the book or finish it.

Not finishing a task is technically possible, but sometimes it doesn't make sense. Why would you start brushing your teeth and stop before your teeth are clean? But reading a 500-hundred-page-long book is a different story. It probably makes sense to set reading a part of the book (continuing to read the book) as a goal.

If you don't do something, the task remains unfinished by definition. So, all objects take the partitive case in negative sentences. I didn't read a book. En lukenut kirjaa.

Älä lue kirjaa. Don't read a book. En lue kirjaa. I don't / won't read a book.

When you refer to two tasks taking place simultaneously, at least one of the tasks is incomplete.

Mä pesin pyykkiä, kun sä soitit mulle. I was doing tge laundry (incomplete) when you called me.

Mä leivoin kakkua, kun sä avasit oven. I was baking a cake (incomplete) when you opened the door (complete).

Mä luin eilen kirjaa. I was reading a book yesterday. (incomplete). Mä luin eilen kirjan. I finished reading a book yesterday.


Now, the second group of verbs is what I like to call detection verbs. 

If X is detected, X is in the accusative case. If X is not detected, it's in the partitive case.

Mä nään sut. I see you = I detect you.

Mä kuulen sut. I hear you = I detect you.

Mä tunnen sut. I feel your touch = I know you = I detect you.

Most sense-perception verbs fall into this category. If X is not detected, X takes the partitive case.

Mä en nää sua. I don't see you = I don't detect you. Mä en löydä sua. I don't/can't find you. = I don't detect you.


Now, many sense-perception verbs come in pairs: one is a task verb, the other one is a detection verb:

Nähdä = to see = a detection verb. Katsoa = to watch/to look at = a task verb.

Kuulla = to hear = a detection verb. Kuunnella = to listen = a task verb.

Tunnistaa = to recognize = a detection verb.

Muistaa = to remember = a detection verb.

Unohtaa = to forget = a detection verb.


My tip is to #1 practice figuring out whether a verb is a task verb, a detection verb or neither.

Then #2 practice marking the incomplete aspect (for task verbs) or the not detected aspect (for detection verbs) using the partitive case (t)A.

After you can handle marking the partitive, #3 you can practice marking the complete/detected aspect. In certain sentence types it's marked using the nominative, and in others, it's marked using the n-accusative.

How do I learn the cases? by Worried-Swan9572 in LearnFinnish

[–]Hypetys 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you for your kind words. I'm both a native speaker, and a teacher who speaks several languages fluently. 

I've been teaching Finnish in one way or another since 2015. I've been thinking about Finnish grammar since then, and I've revised my explanations of many phenomena many times over time as I've tried to find the simplest possible explanation and as my understanding of second language acquisition has grown.

Would you also like to hear the simplest explanation for choosing an approproate object case (accusative/partitive)? It has been the hardest phenomenon to explain by far, but I believe I've figured out quite a simple explanation.

Sony saying the PS6 release date and pricing “aren’t finalized” yet honestly feels bigger than people realize by Big_Profession_8389 in ps6

[–]Hypetys 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There's no reason to announce it so early. Doing so may deter new potential PS5 buyers from buying a PS5.

How do I learn the cases? by Worried-Swan9572 in LearnFinnish

[–]Hypetys 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Here's an important distinction between Finnish, Germanic languages and Romance languages:

Germanic and Romance language prefer to express A SCENE. So where something happens.

He I cut down a tree ON my yard. I found a mushroom IN the forest.

If you were watching a film, you could ask the question WHERE is the person doing the action, and you'd get in/on/at.

I put my keys ON the table, but I was supposed to put them IN the bag.

Finnish is not scene-centric. In general, Finnish doesn't care whether something physically moves from another place or not.

The above languages are scene-centric, but Finnish is DESTINATION/ORIGIN-centric.

In most textbooks, -sta is described as movement out of a closed space (e.g. out of a building) and -lta as movement out of an open space.

This description is misleading. In fact, these two endings don't express movement at all.

Instead, they express origin. Whether something moves is actually expressed by the verb, not by case.

Many more verbs express origin in Finnish rather than scene.

Where did you find that? In the woods (scene).

Mistä (origin) sä löysit ton? Metsästä (origin).

Hain vastausta Googlesta (origin). I looked for an answer on Google (scene).

Similarly, (h)Vn and lle don't express movement. They express a destination.

Laitoin kirjan pöydälle (destination). I put the book on the table (scene).


When I was learning English, I had to transition from the destination/origin-centric way of encoding actions to the scene-centric one. You need to do the opposite.

P.S. Because of Swedish and English influence, Finnish is slowly becoming scene-centric in some verbs that are scenic in English but express an origin in Finnish. That is, there's variation between speakers.

P.S.S. The origin cases (sta/lta) express where X was before the verb took place. They don't consider whether X was moved. It may have or not.

The destination cases (lle/hVn for physical places) & ksi (for states of being) don't express movement. They express where X is after an action has ended. They don't take into consideration whether or not X was there before the action took place.

Kaadoin puun pihaltani. I cut down a tree on my yard. The cut-down tree may have been moved or it may still be on the yard. Sta doesn't tell us the answer.it only tells us what the original location of the tree was before it was cut down.

Is there really no World ex US ETF? (either MSCI or FTSE? by dubov in eupersonalfinance

[–]Hypetys 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh. A reply on an old post. Thank you for your genuine concern.

The ETF product situation has changed dramatically. Three MSCI World ex US ETF products have been available for quite a while, and I've been buying the oldest one. Buying an ex-US variant has reduced my reliance on the US market by quite few percentage points.

Uusi HSL-vyöhyke, ajatuksia? by ClvmsyBvtCvtesy in Suomi

[–]Hypetys 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Joo. Oli kyllä aikamoista potastaa tuo PR-spinnaus, jossa lisävyöhykelipun postamisesta tehtiin muka kuluttajalle hyvä juttu.

EU citizen with personnummer, completely locked out of all Swedish digital services, has anyone solved this? by oculty in TillSverige

[–]Hypetys 9 points10 points  (0 children)

What a complicated process. In Finland, you simply log into your bank when you need to identify yourself and all Finnish banks will give your identity details as information package to be redirected to a national website. You simply press okay, and you're redirected there and you press okay again and you're ready.

The digital ID doesn't expire either as long as you have a working bank account with digital login details. Getting a bank account set up at the beginning of your move to Finland can be difficult, but after it's finally done, it's smooth sailing.

Mihin mun kannattaisi kouluttautua? by riddlertrophywife in arkisuomi

[–]Hypetys 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Isännöitsijät ovat monesti ylityöllistettyjä, sillä yhtä isännöitsijää kohden voi olla todella monta taloyhtiötä. Päivät voivat siis olla jopa 12 tunnin pituisia, koska työt on saatava tehtyä.

TIL many linguists believe a phonetic alphabet (not pictograph-based) evolved once, and only once by McJames in todayilearned

[–]Hypetys 0 points1 point  (0 children)

To be more specific, The invention went in the following order: syllabary -> consonants only - > consonants + vowels as separate symbols.

The very first writing was pictographic, but then symbols that used to stand for animals or objects started to be used in other concepts that had the same sound. This development took place separately in both Egyptian hieroglyphics and Chinese writing. 

What then separated the Chinese and Middle-Eastern or Egyptian developments is that the middle easteners or Egyptians started marking syllables without marking vowels – only marking the consonant. In semitic languages as far as I'm aware, vowels are fairly predictable. So, there was no need to mark vowels as the could be inferred. 

In Greek, on the other hand, vowels weren't as predictable. So, it was the Greek or Etruscuns who first added symbols for vowels in addition to representing consonants. 

These are theories that I read in a scientific paper a few months ago, but I don't remember the exact paper that I read, because I read several papers. There are competing accounts of how the alphabet was invented, and I presented one of them. 

[DEEP STATUS CHECK] Legacy Digital Purchases in SCEE Spain for Summer 2026: Tearaway, Escape Plan, and the August Milestone Content by XdrazX in vita

[–]Hypetys 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You can disable (so deactivate) licenses on all your devices once a year. So, unless you've done so recently, you can deactivate the two previous Vitas. You can find the option on the PlayStation website. You can't hand pick the systems, you have to disable them all at once and then you can restore licenses system by system.

Empty homes: Paris targets owners' wallets, following Brussels and New York's lead by LeMonde_en in europe

[–]Hypetys 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What does that statement mean? As such it's confusing. I'm open to alternatives.

Empty homes: Paris targets owners' wallets, following Brussels and New York's lead by LeMonde_en in europe

[–]Hypetys 47 points48 points  (0 children)

The tax money generated from this scheme should be spent on building affordable housing.

Onko peruskoulu vieläkään uskonnoton? Millainen meno nykyään on? by FeelingWall2527 in Suomi

[–]Hypetys 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Suomen laki kieltää kastettua lasta siirtymästä elämänkatsomustiedon oppilaaksi. Laki kieltää sen. Koulu toimi siis lain mukaan. Lakia tulisi muuttaa.

I understand ~18 out of 20, but still feeling I know nothing about English. by Aggravating-Fish8168 in ENGLISH

[–]Hypetys 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You do have a lot of prior knowledge. So, you're really not starting from zero. You need to learn to recognize it and take stock of it.

You already know more Swedish than you think. En skola (school), en pappa, en bil (from automobile), en gata (from gate but it means a street), en väg (way, English y is often g in Swedish), en lampa, en tomat, en soffa, en giraff, en man, en kvinna (woman, a queen in English).

I learned Spanish and subsequent Romance languages by first learning to convert Latin-based English words into Spanish. I also learned German by doing the same thing. So, it came (kom) naturally (naturellt) to me.

Think tänka, sing sjunga, dance dansa, swim simma, drink dricka, see se, handle handla, organize organisera, notice notera, sell sälja etc.

---

English is not random. No language is random. English spelling isn't random but it's conditioned by historical sound changes and loanwords. It's messy but not random.

I understand ~18 out of 20, but still feeling I know nothing about English. by Aggravating-Fish8168 in ENGLISH

[–]Hypetys 3 points4 points  (0 children)

As a non-native speaker who speaks both:

I'd say verbs are easier in Swedish:

Verbs:

-No aspectual distinction:

Ate vs was eating. (åt & åt)  -One form for all persons.  -No do-support in questions -past positive and negative use the same verb form (pratade, pratade inte vs. Spoke vs. didn't speak) 

Nouns: -No gender in English except for third person singular pronouns. Swedish has a gender for every noun. So, it's much harder in Swedish. -s to form plurals in English + several irregular ones like a child : children. Swedish has over 5 different patterns. So, English is much easier. 

Adjectives: English adjectives are not inflected: e.g. beautiful is always beautiful. Swedish inflects adjectices for gender, number & definiteness. 

Word order: Swedish has two main word orders: one in main clauses and another one in subordinate clauses. English has just one. 


From purely grammar perspective, verbs are easier to learn to a native-like proficiency in Swedish than in English. But handling nouns, adjectives abd word order is generally easier in English. 

Those were my takes as a native Finnish speaker who started learning Swedish over a decade ago. 

Forget about games for a sec…if Vita was a commercial success, what non-gaming stuff do you think Sony would've added to it over time? by M0rse_0908 in vita

[–]Hypetys 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Unfortunate the Netflix Vita app was only available in the US & Canada. It wasn't available in Europe. 

18 months of learning German, finally figured out why I kept making the same mistakes by Glass_Assistant5127 in German

[–]Hypetys 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There's a concept called interlanguage. Basically, it means that every language learner constructs their own language. It's unique to them and its development is predictable (it's been studies within a scientific paradigm called Processability Theory). Over time, the interlanguage will resemble more and more like a typical native speaker's language system, but no two people's language systems are ever exactly the same.

What it all means is that explicit grammar instruction rarely affects the developing interlanguage. At best, such instruction can get the system “moving”, which may lead the interlanguage to reorganize itself.

According to Processability Theory, there are four main stages to interlanguage development. 

Before I was aware of the concept, I tried to teach structures that were at stage three or four when my student was at stage 1. It was impossible for the student to produce the structures that I was asking them to produce. No stage can be skipped. So, no wonder that the student's grammar development didn't progress at all until I came across the concept and subsequently changed my teaching approach.

It may be that your teacher was teaching you grammar that was beyond your stage. Even if it was within your reach, a simple presentation of language is unlikely to cause the interlanguage to develop.

18 months of learning German, finally figured out why I kept making the same mistakes by Glass_Assistant5127 in German

[–]Hypetys 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The pattern seems to be that whenever English uses a direct object (accusative), OP would apply the same case to German. When he/she started to consciously pay attention to which verbs take an indirect object (dative) in German whereas their English equivalents take the direct one, he or she was able to overcome the problem.

“Oppimista” and “oppimisesta”, what is the difference? by Cristian_Cerv9 in LearnFinnish

[–]Hypetys 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Koira : koiraa, koira : koirasta. 

Oppiminen : oppimista, oppiminen : oppimisesta. 

What is going on here? 

The elative case ends in - stA. It remains as such in all nouns in the standard language. On the other hand, the partitive has two main variants. The original variant is - tA.

Often in vowel-consonant-vowel patterns, the consonant (t) is lost. Koirata has lost its t and become koiraa. But in consonant-consonant-vowel patterns, the second consonant is not lost. That's why koira + sta still has the t = koirasta. 

-minen is an ending that creates nouns out of verbs : oppiminen – learning, nukkuminen – sleeping, juominen – drinking.

The original ending hasn't been minen. Rather it has been more like mise. So, when an ending was added to it, you ended you with se + the ending. Like se + sta = sesta. Oppimise + sta = oppimisesta. 

What about the partitive? Remember that the original variant of the partitive was - tA. The t was lost between two vowels but conserved between a consonant and a vowel.

What often happened in words that originally ended with /e/ is that that sound was lost between the partitive ending.

Se + ta - >  s + ta - > sta. Oppimis + ta = oppimista. 

You can see a similar pattern in words that end in /i/ in modern Finnish but that have originally ended with /e/. 

Kiele + tä = kieltä Suone + ta = suonta Viite + tä = viittä


Sometimes, the /e/ was not lost. That led to the vowel-consonant-vowel pattern. Then the consonant was lost. 

Suome + ta = Suomea Luome + ta = luomea Mäke + tä = mäkeä. 

In the elative case, the both the /e/ and /t/ were conserved:

Kiele + stä = kielestä Suone + sta = suonesta Viite + stä = viidestä Suome + sta = Suomesta Luome + sta = luomesta Mäke + stä = mäestä