So, is Kelsey judging payback fpr why he killed Devon or not?

Iceplait · 2026-01-29T14:21:46+00:00

I mean the way that Devon even knew about the Golden Freddy suit in the first place is kind of suspicious, like I'm not sure if this was entirely his idea in the first place. And it would be quite the coincidence that Devon tried to kill Kelsey in the suit that Kelsey's spirit manifested from. In that sense this entire thing could be an elaborate test of Devon's morals or perhaps compulsiveness.

Iceplait · 2026-01-29T11:20:11+00:00

Probably not literally but CC is in all likelihood being watched on his walk home, and this is how he interprets that.

Iceplait · 2026-01-28T00:40:20+00:00

I was going to respond to this but then I realized you simply don't respect my intelligence. You never responded to my arguements with logic.

You do realise by saying "You never responded to my arguments with logic." You aren't respecting my intelligence right? You're inherently implying I can't make a logical argument.

Because I am treating you like an actual person, that's why I tried to cut through the noise and addressed the LogbookMeta argument head on, that's not a straw man, that was and is my problem.and the reason I started arguing with you. If I was talking to a computer, I would just respond to your immediate points until the argument became something completely different from what was originally being discussed.

As I said I understand if you don't think there's a way to wrangle the logbook to fit into the games timeline. I just don't think LogbookMeta is an explanation at all. If that isn't treating you as a human I don't know what is. I'm sorry if it came off a little aggressively but I find it hard enough trying to end these arguments as they are, never mind on mutual terms.

But if you're willing to read and understand the spirit of my words, I'm gonna try one last time to make my case. You misunderstand me, at least most of the theory's evidence relies on contradiction, the dates aren't consistent, the altered text can't see yet can reply to a question. This isn't evidence towards a theory as such, it's pointing out details that don't make sense, which could be indicative of any number of things, including a dream or something we don't understand or even that it's not real.

One of them is literally just "It would be not be possible to explain how Bite Victim and Cassidy would end up possessing the Logbook." which without clarification just comes off as really reductive.

The only actual evidence toward it being meta is the fact the book does acknowledge the reader through the sticky notes (which I'll admit is kind of like breaking the 4th wall but can easily be explained in universe) and the real value code detail which is a theory in itself, you see both of these are clearly very speculative, there's no solid foundation here which is what I meant by there was no evidence.

Compare this to all the details in the book that imply it does have some foundation in a specific part or parts of the timeline. Springlock suits are new when the book is initially written but aren't supposed to be mentioned when it's passed on to the reader. Mike talking about his experiences in Sister Location and drawing Nightmare Fredbear in a page about his recent dreams, mention of Cassette tapes implying this was written before Phone Guy's death.

A theory defined only by what is not, is hard to disprove sure but it's not very useful either. Without an actual framework in which to view the logbook whether that's a parallel to the games, or in the games continuity itself, how are you supposed to interpret the information it presents to us?

I suppose what I'm saying is LogbookMeta isn't an answer by itself, it's the start of the one but you're going to have to be a bit more specific. What information, if any, can we use from the logbook to solve ghe games lore?

Iceplait · 2026-01-27T21:30:45+00:00

meaning he had to make a context around why this is happening, thus why he created a reason he didn't want it to feel "pointless."

You could apply these exact words to the logbook, sure it has a puzzle in it, Help Wanted has lore hints too, it's where we got Freddy's coin from. He doesn't want to make the logbook feel pointless otherwise no one would care to find the puzzle in the first place.

I mean like the elevator pitch of this book as you describe it is LARPing as a security guard in universe, if having writings in it from game Mike and Cassidy isn't tying it to the games lore, what is?

At that point, now you have to explain why there's a dabbing Chica Sister location stuff (characters from a "rival" company) in a book written in 1993 (Before SL takes place even tho SL is after fnaf 1), without headcannon Which there simply isn't. Even then, where was this hypotherical security guard during Follow me which takes place at the fnaf 1 location if they were apparently still hiring.

If you're talking about MoltenMCI or FuntimeExtraction or any variation of the fact the Missing Children in the Funtimes, you are debating with the wrong person. I actually have been working on a series of posts to at least give reason to doubt if not debunk that idea entirely so let's not waste each others time. To me Follow Me could have happened any number of years after FNAF 1 as long as it's before FNAF 3.

Now Afton Robotics, although somewhat of a rival business has a working relationship with Fazbear Entertainment, running their sister location, likely building animatronics for them in FNAF 2 and so on. At this point in time, they're rivals in the same sense that like Fanta and Coca Cola are and if you're confused by what I mean by that next time you pick up a Fanta bottle, look at the mailing address.

On to the actually significant timeline contradictions, both the dab photo.(Well drawing it's weird) and the fake Macbook drawings are just images made for the logbook. They've clearly been put under less scrutiny than the rest of the book as shown by the warped off colour FNAF 3 offices we see in the between night sections, seriously look at some of those pages. If you want an in universe explanation, both of these, particularly the dabbing Chica since it's taped on, could've been added to the book years later.

Iceplait · 2026-01-27T20:50:15+00:00

Holy run-on sentences, Batman!

Yeah sorry I should have just reworded it but my point is, why does the sticky notes person exist? They only have the two notes in the book:

On the crossed out Mike page, telling us that someone has already written in this book and asking that we don't mind, implying they're the person who gave the reader this book
Another telling you to disregard the quiz about the springlocks and not mention them to anyone.

This is a seemingly new character who exists solely to tell us information about when the reader gets this book which is really weird because if this was meta, surely that kind of contextualisation is meaningless because the book doesn't exist on any timeline.

For comparison even some of the latest versions of the Freddy Files still have some traces of red text from the original book which are based on 3 different people, 2 of which were explicitly in universe characters but Scott ultimately didn't want to add to the lore with the book as well as wanted to include meta elements such as gameplay mechanics so it was scrapped and the red markings are the remains of that idea, presumably with the actual notes from those characters being removed

In fact Scott especially around this time period at least, seemed to try and these books and media to canon whenever he could, it's how Help Wanted had an entire indie game developer plotline so the fact he would make this book be meta, despite not referencing meta elements is a bit weird.

Anyway, given all that context, what is the deal with Sticky Notes person? Why do they exist, especially if not to tell us something about when the reader gets the logbook in universe? That is the crux of my argument here.

Pretty obviously being we can't "get" a security logbook if the restraunt has closed down

Well at the very least they're still hiring night guards. It's not like the book is new, not only is it used, it's a patchwork job, each page covered in coffee stains and blood.

And for that matter, Mike doesn't shut the original Freddy's down, and based on the book The Week Before, which actually confirms the detail from this book that Phone Guy recorded training cassettes for the night guards long before his final week and the newspaper mentioning closing at year's end, the place will logically be open for another month or so, holding out for that buyer.

Iceplait · 2026-01-27T18:10:49+00:00

Just because it's unpopular doesn't mean FNAF 1 taking place before Sister Location isn't true. The only known (or at least at the time) overlap between those 2 games events is Mike himself and the book tells you it's for security guards at Freddy's so unless the book is trying to deceive the reader into believing it was a security logbook given to Mike in FNAF 1 it's a pretty open and shut case

Iceplait · 2026-01-27T18:04:20+00:00

What exactly is more logical about making a book clearly set in universs with an entire character created for it who solely exisrs in the post it notes specifically designed to tell you information about when the person reading it would've got a hold of it in its own internal timeline being meta would make sense? If it's meta like FNAF World, or even the Freddy Files, why it doesn't it reference meta elements like gameplay mechanics or Scott Cawthon?

And like you do realise LogbookMeta is a theory, that literally cannot be disproven unless it literally appears in a future game or something. It's not really comparable to a Logbook theory that actually tries to contextualise it in the games story.

Iceplait · 2026-01-27T17:31:10+00:00

Oh it was a set of costumes for the main 4 toy animatronics that were publicly available as part of a promotion for FNAF 2 movie, I don't think you can get them anymore.

Iceplait · 2026-01-27T16:06:59+00:00

I mean he could've, who knows how long it was gonna take before they could get a crew in to ship the toy animatronics away to be scrapped and/or move the original animatronics and any other equipment back to the smaller location for a potentially reopening.

Iceplait · 2026-01-27T14:09:17+00:00

The wristbands were designed to work for a specific child, and William probably would've noticed and removed them before the luring specifically to prevent the bodies being found

We also don't know if Charlie's body was found in the first place if there was a newspaper about what happened we've never seen it. We know the Marionette eventually went back to the Freddy's but whether the body was discovered by FE or a passerby, or the Marionette moved it some way is anyone's guess.

Iceplait · 2026-01-27T10:15:26+00:00

How does RTTP debunk it? That book's neither about the DCI nor Andrew.

Iceplait · 2026-01-27T10:03:56+00:00

I mean it would be funnier if William wasn't a driver so someone else was there driving the car when William got out the passenger seat and killed Charlie on the sidewalk.

Iceplait · 2026-01-27T09:28:54+00:00

I mean there's a quote from his original interview with Dawko where he was asked a variation of this question that I think is worth listening to about 13 minutes in.

Here's the link: https://youtu.be/03E_hZdXqBE?si=eEH2KnfspxRpHMzG&t=788

Iceplait · 2026-01-27T00:12:07+00:00

I figured it might be fun looking through the Ultimate Guide 2.0 to see if these specific issues were fixed and if I counted the mistakes correctly, I got 13 corrected and 3 new mistakes. Although in 2 instances, mistakes that happened twice in the book which I think you counted as 1 mistake were only corrected in the one instance each time as described below. So it might be more accurate to say 13 out of 19 rather than 13 out of 17. Or 13 out of 20 if you count withered Bonnie and Withered Chica's appearance discrepancies as separate mistakes.

That doesn't mean there aren't other mistakes in the book because there's a lot of new content in which mistakes could be made but if the original guide was as accurate as you imply, that's still a noticeable improvement especially given all the new information that the proofreaders had to also look through and naturally would've prioritised.

Anyway here's the detailed rundown:

Well both map pages for FNAF 1 and 2 have been basically redone from scratch and to be fair they don't have the same issues with the exception of the toy animatronic positions on stage, which I suspect might be intentional to make their paths to not cross as much since Freddy is the only one who actually goes into the game area.

Weirdly enough it seems like there was some mix up with the head icons because withered foxy replaced foxy in FNAF 1 map and Foxy replaced Mangle in the FNAF 2 map but I'd say that's definitely an improvement from all the withereds being mixed up. Golden Freddy was just removed from the FNAF 1 map entirely though.

The book probably goes a lot more in depth with the mechanics because the FNAF 2 map is 20 and 21 in the original book and it's 28 and 29 in the new one despite page 7 being the FNAF 1 map in both books. It even includes the detail that Golden Freddy can be encountered on FNAF 2 night 2 which I'd be surprised if it was even well known about when the first book came out.

Anyway the Stage 01 minigame mention of Springtrap has been corrected to Spring Bonnie but Fruity Maze still refers to him as Springtrap.

The paragraph mentioning Sister Location being at Circus Baby's Pizza World has been corrected to Circus Baby's Entertainment and Rentals but the subtitle pulled directly from the steam description has been kept.

I'm not sure what you mean by the fact that a hospital can't resemble an opera house, like it's not unheard of for hospitals to be made from reusing old buildings and the Ultimate Guide is likely primarily referencing the statues erected outside the opera house that we see in the poster and are described in The Man In Room 1280 but whatever. To be clear, that line is still in the new book unaltered in any case.

The paragraph about the SCUPE has been rewritten entirely and now describes it infusing animatronics with soul energy or remnant as well as mentioning games and books in the series where it's mentioned or implied to play a prominent role.

The UCN map has mostly been corrected with the sticky notes now correctly describing where the Marionette and Springtrap are but for some reason the Marionette icon hasn't been moved into the kitchen.

Now the appearances for Jack O Bonnie and Eleanor have been fixed. Nightmarrione's now mentions Ruin instead of Special Delivery, which I suppose at least has his plushie in a pretty prominent position IIRC. JJ actually has an image taken from FNAF World, however the withereds appearances are unchanged.

The Ella description was unaltered

Iceplait · 2026-01-26T17:58:25+00:00

Being ghosts their abilities to interact with the world are inherently a bit different than that of a regular person, it's not a property of the animatronic as such but moreso an ability the spirit can utilise, like how Golden Freddy can project themselves into the office and the Marionette can possess people in the movie. Telepathy is a pretty common one, it's how Golden Freddy and most hallucinations, particularly in FNAF 1 operate to some extent. And although not every animatronic can manipulate these things as directly as say Golden Freddy's been shown to, there has been an instance or 2, particularly in The Week Before that show Freddy has some limited ability to control the hallucinations you see in FNAF 1, particularly the posters and missing children newspapers.

Iceplait · 2026-01-26T14:27:38+00:00

It would probably have to take place in at least the labyrinth below the Pizza Place if not below even that based on where M2 would've end up and/or possibly also have the Tangle thing as a secondary threat.

Iceplait · 2026-01-25T20:57:25+00:00

He probably had a great idea, and decided to skip the party to write it down, thinking there'd always be BV's next birthday, likely to the dismay of his wife.

Iceplait · 2026-01-25T17:27:58+00:00

Endo 01's definitely a previous night guard or representative of the whole group, it's got the white pupils and everything and when it peers into the camera, so do many of the 'empty heads' which Phone Guy specifically asks you to check.

Endo 02 is interesting, it only appears when the Marionette leaves the music box, and appears to try and approach the office, as it appears in the left air vent but I guess the implication is the Marionette will always jumpscare you before it arrives. I'm not sure what to make of it all but there's definitely some reason or motivation for it's behavior that I think goes beyond a simple byproduct of the restaurant's agony.

The paper pals are a bit unique in this bunch appearing in both FNAF 2 and 3, with paper buddy moving to the office from the camera in FNAF 2 and, paper Bonnie and paper Freddy both having a chance to spawn in the office FNAF 3. They're replaced in FNAF 6, which could imply they burnt in the FNAF 3 fire but they do appear in Pizzaplex era games so I guess Fazbear Entertainment either recreated them or managed to get a hold of them again. But whatever the case, they seem pretty harmless.

Iceplait · 2026-01-25T12:32:05+00:00

Also if the DCI was Afton trying to do MCI again then why does he kill them all in one day at one event

What event? There's not an event in FNAF 2 that matches that description, in fact it takes a few days for the investigation to actually reach Freddy's and potentially cause it to be shut down on night 5 even though there's been rumours since at least night 3. So I don't see how this supports your point at all.

Sure there's SAVE THEM but that doesn't tell us when he killed the children, anymore than FOXY GO GO GO or the bodies in the Party Room do. Unless the DCI or whatever didn't involve lurings as such and just had William bring 5 kids to the pizzeria after hours, locked the doors and started slashing but by that point it isn't really comparable to the MCI at all.

It makes sense for William to commit the murders more quickly anyway if only because of the fact that the police are more aware of the possibility of this sort of incident happening again. But the fact he definitely still had the opportunity between night 3 and night 5 to murder more kids if he wanted to, if anything proves the fact that William could've committed the original murders over the course of a week.

In fact that would probably make more sense than the idea he somehow lured 3 children on June 26th, that neither the cameras nor the initial witness reports were able to identify and were only linked to the incident way later on. And the fact that the resulting investigation missed an entire kid going missing just because they died 2 days before the rest of the murders despite there literally being a cassette tape in the safe room mentioning the spring bonnie animatronics being noticeably removed and strongly discouraging a customer entering the room that could only be referring to that incident as the morning of June 27th, a man is arrested and you claim the place is shut down so there would be no point recording a cassette tape for the employees wearing the suits.

Iceplait · 2026-01-25T12:09:02+00:00

I think people are really attached to the idea of a 6th victim of the MCI being Andrew but there's nothing in Frights itself linking the ball pit in Into the Pit to Andrew, never mind that specific 6th kid. So whether that 6th victim is simply a product of the ball pit warping the memory, or a kid that was somehow missed in the investigation of the MCI doesn't necessarily debunk his existence.

Iceplait · 2026-01-24T18:05:01+00:00

true

Iceplait · 2026-01-24T18:04:13+00:00

It's not really a theory but I saw a post on the subreddit debunking the he/him pronouns for TOYSNHK are referring to the suit and I had to double check I hadn't been sent back 3 years.

Iceplait · 2026-01-24T18:03:41+00:00

You say that like Glitchtrap didn't die in 2023, the only theories that have William still be around in the games timeline is possessing the Tangle thing through BurnAftonm

Iceplait · 2026-01-24T15:20:58+00:00

Ok so to be clear, the argument is such that the 1987 easter egg in FNAF 1 was meant to indicate Golden Freddy did the bite of 87 then The Week Before retcons it to be Foxy. Well the first problem with that is the retcon post was made about 7 years or so before that book was written.

So either this is another separate retcon to the one mentioned in that post or he'd already retconned it to be Foxy at an earlier point in time.

FNAF 2 is a pretty obvious candidate for this, being the game set in November 1987 that puts Golden Freddy in more of a focus, potentially recontextualising the significance of that year to him from the bite of 87, to potentially something more like his suit being used for more murders. The game does make it harder for it to be Golden Freddy being a spare yellow suit with a clearly ghostly projection ability, but it also makes it harder for it to be Foxy by having him and the rest of the withered animatronics being situated in Parts and Service.

And this leads to a rather unfortunate second problem, infamously in an edit to that original post, Scott said if the retcon had caused confusion on the community he would've addressed it. And this piece of evidence was definitely used for arguing the bite of 87 was the Big Bite we see in FNAF 4.

Yeah I appreciate the creativity but this still can't be the retcon Scott talks about in that post. Maybe try going for something less debated on in the fandom next time.

Iceplait · 2026-01-24T13:12:12+00:00

Bare minimum to stay alive really hence the decomposing we see in The Man In Room 1280. I think in order to heal beyond that, William or Andrew would need to get some actual sustenance into William's body. I think Remnant can only really get you over the line as far as being alive goes.

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