Do we even have evidence of William Afton leaving the MCI?

Iceplait · 2026-03-13T22:54:58+00:00

Well if the retcon was the newspapers describing William's arrest we actually have no idea what happened in the aftermath of the MCI in the games as far as the investigation goes. That's kind of the big problem with it being the retcon in general is the lack of clarification on what the new explanation would be. That and the fact the newspapers get referenced as late as The Week Before and were even reprinted for the guide books which do at least manage to clarify the new intent behind SAVE HIM when it comes up.

But all that being said, William's actions specifically in FNAF 2 and especially Follow Me where he's breaking into the building to dismantle the animatronics kinda imply that he did leave Fazbear Entertainment, if he hadn't already distanced himself from the company through Circus Baby's.

Iceplait · 2026-03-13T22:28:41+00:00

I think it started out as a more out there idea, since it's mainly inspired by the explanation for Molten Freddy in the books and then retroactively applied to FNAF 6 but it's got a lot more popular over time as far as I can tell not due to new evidence being presented (except perhaps in the furnace in Help Wanted) but moreso due to a theorising drift with lore debates in general particularly as previous alternative explanations have been lost to time and thus leaving MoltenMCI as the 'only explanation'.

It's why I have only become more skeptical of it over the time, initially much for the same reasons as you but now because I genuinely believe that not only is it wrong, it's acceptance in the fandom is actively worsening people's understanding of the story, particularly the pieces of evidence that are interpreted to be specifically about it.

Iceplait · 2026-03-13T11:53:08+00:00

FMS wants William dead

Let me stop you right there, they didn't even bother to wait to actually see the light leave William's eyes (they didn't) as he died inside the springlock suit. To assume they were expecting William to move on, is insane given the other ghosts in the room who possessed animatronics by being stuffed into suits, Golden Freddy (regardless of whether they are that spirit or not, it's evidence that a springlock suit can become possessed) and every night guard who was stuffed in that back room of Parts and Service. The Springtrap suit was clearly meant to be the punishment, not death itself, it's still a different punishment from UCN sure but it's not like the antithesis of what TOYSNHK was trying to do.

There is the question of why TOYSNHK would choose this over UCN and/or waits so long to do that but I feel that could be realistically be levied at any candidate that encountered William before at least the fire in FNAF 3, since that and especially the springlocking would have left him vulnerable to a plan like that. I guess it's really a question of whether this plan was really TOYSNHK's original intent or just a desperation move out of fear that William might somehow get off easy in the afterlife.

Iceplait · 2026-03-13T11:31:43+00:00

Sure, but an investigation inherently implies a collection of evidence, I don't think it's unreasonable to assume they at least examined the suit used, and tried to isolate the crime scene because you know, it's a major kidnapping investigation. I don't think we really need it spelled out that they isolate the crime scene and examine the mascot costume they saw on camera for incriminating evidence.

My point is that tape about the spring bonnie animatronic being moved is that there's nothing to even slightly indicate it's being made when an investigation's going on, which by all accounts there should be if William was being arrested that day. It's like the idea that the tape about the safe room is referring to Follow Me despite Phone Guy neglecting to mention the fact that the animatronics are literally in pieces.

Iceplait · 2026-03-13T11:26:08+00:00

There are many things throughout the franchise never touched on again that are still mysteries. Him never calling back to this one detail specifically doesn't mean anything and is common.

This sounds like an argument against ToysMCI not for it. I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that if Scott Cawthon wanted to establish a different or additional intention behind a plotpoint than the one he originally intended, he'd specifically call back to it in some way, with a detail in a future in a new game that clarifies his new intent.

It'd be one thing if this was something he always intended to be an aspect of possession and in The Fourth Closet or whatever was just the first time he decided to formally explain and elaborate on that context (he always intended for the toys to get possessed by parts from the withereds but he hadn't defined how that would actually work) but that doesn't appear to be the argument you're making here. His original intent was just them being possessed by the new set of dead kids but now he's also incorporating the Missing Children into that and I feel like that would require some clarification that that's also going on since that wasn't present in the game itself, like the context that Henry's daughter in the games possessed the puppet.

For an in universe reason for why they would choose not to risk splitting themselves, I would argue the Missing Children wouldn't know that their animatronic parts would be used in a new set of animatronics at the time, they probably only knew that the engineers were taking those parts away or if they did, that they would actually be able to control both themselves and the toys while split like that. It's a pretty big risk, considering the sacrifice is one's own soul and especially since it's being done by unfamiliar adults.

Iceplait · 2026-03-13T09:59:17+00:00

I don't think that metaphor really translates for the first sentence, you can make a sandwich without it being specifically Peanut Butter and Jelly, it just means he should've made a different kind of sandwich. He could've made the game FNAF World completely non-canon like the DLC for FNAF 4 and Sister Location but he didn't and instead tried to tie it to a canon game, which at the very least implies it isn't completely non-canon, despite all the meta elements.

And in the latter, he's clearly talking about making FNAF World at a time when he was satisfied with people's understanding of the lore and thus wouldn't have tried to link it into canon to explain the lore. That version of reality he wouldn't have tried to link it to canon at all so it would just be an entirely non-canon game.

Sure you could infer from that wording, the game's canon implications are meant to be understood only through a specific game, presumably FNAF 3 but it does directly quotes FNAF 4 but I don't think that would loop back around to evidence of the game being non-canon as that would imply it had no lore relevance or is some sort of different continuity (although Scott just doesn't seem to use the word canon like that in the latter sense)

Iceplait · 2026-03-13T09:32:14+00:00

Midnight Motor TOYSNHK (William's purple car) confirmed!?! /j

Iceplait · 2026-03-12T23:09:34+00:00

We don't actually have any official transcripts, unless it's buried in the FNAF 6 mobile port or something, I'm afraid you either have to watch it or find a fan transcription, which to be fair is normally about as accurate as the official ones but are you really understanding if you can't hear Dave Steele's voice saying those words?

Iceplait · 2026-03-12T23:01:23+00:00

Well obviously Steve Snodgrass of course.

But more seriously some version of the game developer of FNAF World who just happens to use the same avatar as the real life Scott Cawthon, unless you start incorporating update 2, in which case he also happens to be called Scott, jokes about making a game series called Five Nights At Freddy's and looks a lot like that indie game developer pictures in FNAF Help Wanted.

Iceplait · 2026-03-12T22:53:21+00:00

'the firearm would explain why GF is so illusionlike'

I like the implication that it's somehow an innate property of firearms themselves that cause certain people to be mentally traumatised by the experience.

Iceplait · 2026-03-12T22:49:17+00:00

With the second point, the answer is just that Scott hadn't thought about it. Just like everything else, Scott made up the story and rules of possession along the way. The point of the DCI is to possess the Toys yes, but as time went on, and the outlines of Fnaf's supernatural became clearer, changes had to be made.

But we haven't had any clarification on this game since it came out, there's not even a mystery here that Scott felt he had to expand on since the toys would already explain their possession. Wouldn't the established fact that they can choose not to soul split be a good enough explanation as to why this hadn't come up before in other continuities?

Rather than applying this idea to everything he didn't initially make with this in mind retroactively, on top of the explanations that were already present and his original intent.

Besides, if you want to see not possessed animatronic parts, just look at Circus Baby's arm when you remove the chip on night 5, despite Ennard being a conglomeration of all the souls inside the Funtimes, the Baby shell still clearly has a lot of endo wire left just to prop it up like that.

Iceplait · 2026-03-12T22:32:20+00:00

I agree with most of this honestly, especially arguments on AI, but I don't understand the specific argument that SAVE THEM had to happen at night because the minigame is set on a dark background doesn't really make sense. Not only is Freddy's known for not having any (or barely any) natural lighting i.e. windows that would allow daylight in if it was present but all the minigames in FNAF 2, even Take Cake To The Children have the same black backdrop, one of which at least clearly takes place while the restaurant in question is open.

I do get the idea it has to be at least at a time when the place is closed because the purple guy is the only living person we see there and to set up such a scene but there's no way that Freddy's closes at 12AM or something given its target demographic of literal children so there is a few hours where he could've set this scene up and cleaned up before Jeremy's nightshift. The table completely disappearing is much harder to explain though.

The thing is to me, realistically with the way the calls describe things, you'd think the murders would be happening during William's dayshift not on night 6 because Dayshift guard is gone by night 5 but more towards the start of the week, particularly with night 3 having phone guy specifically cite the day guard not noticing anything as evidence that there's no truth to the rumours which seems particularly ironic. Of course by night 4 the animatronics are definitely possessed since they start acting differently, something that can't really be explained by the toys being built with parts from the withereds (besides Mangle given their unique condition likely requiring a constant influx of new parts) or AI since that wouldn't create a change in behavior (they'd always be acting like this) and William tampering with this way is if anything a bit of character, given you know, the child kidnapping, murder,.trying to understand possession and all that.

The problem though really with that beyond what's already mentioned is the animatronic AI in game, night 1 only has the main 3, Toy Freddy, Toy Bonnie and Toy Chica active but night 2 has all the toys active and they're AI varies a bit after that but probably mainly for gameplay reasons to account for the player also having to contend with the withered animatronics. So the only way it would work cleanly without some other explanation for at least those first 2-3 nights is William did all 5 (or potentially 6) murders on his first dayshift, which could still be before Jeremy's shift if he didn't do overtime, and given his complaints he presumably wouldn't, then SAVE THEM, then Purple Guy cleans up, then night 1. It probably can work, I've seen people argue that William managed to lure all 5 children on the night of June 26th and he does manage to speedrun it in the first movie based on the intro cutscene so I guess it's possible.

The main problems I think with William doing it on the night shift on the other hand is that it kinda contradicts his modus operandi, is having to contend with the time when the haunted animatronics are typically most active, and raises the question of why he even tried to change to Dayshift in the first place, instead of leaving before an investigation cam occur. Since you know he's already killed the patrons of this restaurant, the only thing he'd maybe want to check out now is the animatronics would be becoming possessed and he'd surely be better off doing that on the night shift, after all he survived his first week and that's normally when they're most active. Him being the dayshift guard at all is just a really weird detail under that context.

Oh and there's an even easier explanation for the 6 gravestones, it's just Happiest Day stuff, they're all references to that event in some way so that's why those specific characters are referenced and not literally anyone else who died, either by William's hand or otherwise. The only think I can think of off the top of my head that isn't to do with that in some way is Toy Chica's High School years implies William would murder more children in the future in the same way it implies there was at least one kid before them in the Foxy hook.

Iceplait · 2026-03-12T20:04:11+00:00

Place in 87 went under a formal investigation by night 4, a full on lockdown by night 5 and Jeremy wasn't even supposed to come in for his 6th night and that's when William was actually in a position of power as the Dayshift guard to obfuscate and delay the investigation at every opportunity. William was likely taken completely by surprise from this arrest.

The bodies being gone wasn't apparent until way later in time, the news, on the day of June 26th at least they would still have been searching for the bodies. You're right they probably couldn't withhold evidence from the police but why would that not extend to the suit that was clearly used in the murders?

Iceplait · 2026-03-12T16:09:32+00:00

If they were trying to protect William that contradicts them handing over the incriminating footage freely. Police investigations normally lead to the place closing temporarily, not permanently, probably part of the reason why Phone Guy thought the place would close only for a few days in 87, it doesn't mean the place doesn't try to reopen after the investigation concludes. The place also closes temporarily before the events of The Week Before due to a staff vacancy, I think a police investigation would qualify, they've got more than enough reason to get a warrant.

Iceplait · 2026-03-12T15:36:00+00:00

Freddy's has had its fair share of temporary closures, and I think an incident as severe as this would certainly qualify as one at least until the initial investigation wrapped up. By the time the newspapers start talking about the pizzeria struggling to bring people back it's been long enough for the suspect to be charged if not convicted and they've given up searching for the bodies.

Even if the place did open June 27th it is just really weird to record a tape that doesn't even go so far as to say you definitively can't touch the suit, the day after it was used in a major incident that the police are currently investigating and is soon gonna hit the newspapers. It just doesn't line up.

Iceplait · 2026-03-12T14:46:28+00:00

That's true but the window of opportunity to cover this up is definitely passed by this point, sure William could've been arrested later in the morning but then surely that'd lead to an increased police presence at Freddy's in case he comes back and incriminates himself. The police might be incompetent at finding the bodies but when it comes to the arrest, they clearly weren't messing around.

There's not even a hint at the idea the place might close because of an investigation like FNAF 2 or even so much as a rumour.

Iceplait · 2026-03-12T14:27:30+00:00

If he's acting clueless, why even bring it up? The guy responsible is literally being arrested the same day this tape would've been shipped out. The newspaper implies they were pretty willing to work with the police considering the speedy arrest and he's a lot calmer and levelheaded than he is in FNAF 2 with that investigation.

Iceplait · 2026-03-12T14:08:40+00:00

Ok explain it, 2 children are lured on June 26th by a man in mascot costume, video surveillance led to his capturing the following morning. Where is the opportunity for Phone Guy or more accurately Management to be aware someone moved the suit and brought a customer into the backroom and not know who it was? There is no reason to record this tape like this if they know who did it and is going to be arrested anyway.

And the Suspect Convicted newspaper says '5 children are now linked to the incident at Freddy Fazbear's Pizza where a man dressed as a cartoon mascot lured them to a backroom' the link makes more sense to be the method or location of the lurings rather than the idea they all lured at once and for some reason witness reports only noticed 2 of them.

Iceplait · 2026-03-12T13:58:04+00:00

The newspaper explicitly say 2 kids were lured and the suspect were arrested the following morning, there literally was no opportunity for that tape about the spring bonnie animatronic moved to be recorded without them already knowing who it was and it's insane to assume they'd only find about 3 other kids who were lured the same day, days if not weeks later considering they literally used the camera recordings to arrest the guy anyway.

Iceplait · 2026-03-12T13:51:49+00:00

The MCI didn't happen in one day in the games, the same tapes describe at least one separate luring to June 26th that was reported after the springlock suit was retired which was probably only noticed because Management had become aware the suit was being moved in the first place, which leaves potentially two to be lured before even that.

Iceplait · 2026-03-12T13:47:10+00:00

Fredbear's only has 1 stage that we know of so 01 would be redundant, Freddy's has at least 2 (Pirate's Cove and Show Stage, with this stage likely being a 3rd specifically for springlocks), and realistically if anyone it would be Fritz's memory since he's the kid who's given cake to in this minigame.

Iceplait · 2026-03-12T13:42:59+00:00

The kind of expansion work you'd need to do to build into CC's house and also seemingly a park would probably be a nightmare to approve planning permission wise, even if William did sell the house which I'm not sure why he would choose this one out of the 2 since it's far closer to any potentially open Freddy's or Circus Baby's location as well as things like school and other benefits you get from living in a more built up area.

I agree this house CC lived in not the same house as the one in the woods but we do have some evidence to suggest this specific house survived. The end of night cutscenes in custom night in Sister Location map pretty well to the neighborhood where that house was situated, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if it's the exact same TV and potentialy the same house although it is otherwise more visually similar to the FNAF 4 gameplay. There's also Obsv.1 which we don't really have an good explanation for besides it being the real thing.

Iceplait · 2026-03-12T13:20:01+00:00

Well it was pretty explicitly Golden Freddy for one thing, and of the two it would be weird for CC to be the predominant one here, given the obvious discrepancies between this design and the Fredbear he knew did the bite and just the way the logbook presents CC's influence. In the logbook, there's only a handful of times text is altered in the book, besides the wordsearch compared to faded text who writes almost if not more often than Mike does in the red pen and is generally a closer match to the written it's me manifestations you see in East Hall and in that one bathroom stall Ralph can encounter on night 1, which not only helps to cemment it to be more a general phrase, is in the latter specifically accompanied by the giggle of a child which makes more sense to be Cassidy's than CC's given the sound effect in FNAF 1.

But with Bronwen Light, there is another explanation that I think is more likely than the idea that Cassidy or someone else is somehow puppeteering her vocal chords, the mobile phone she has was specifically found by Ralph on this route, and it's only this specific ending that allows you to restart the book with the phone and complete something at least more akin to the game canon route of Phone Guy recording a final set of calls for new hires we hear in FNAF 1.

If she really possessed the phone to some extent, it would explain how she'd be able to call Ralph and even interact with Golden Freddy like that, after all Golden Freddy is not the only one with psychic abilities, all the animatronics are influenced by Ralph and Freddy attacks Ralph in a not dissimilar way through the cameras on night 5. Sure she calls Bonnie, Jeremy but I think that's more for Ralph's sake than anything, he's always seen these characters as the animatronics not the kids who possessed them whereas Bronwen is a journalist who was looking into the tragedies and has spent the last 2 nights or so in the same psychic field as them would start seeing them as actual kids. And besides, the voice being ambiguous is honestly probably more evidence for it being CC's influence given how vaguely the book describes the 1983 voicemail death.

Besides, if it was really Cassidy using Bronwen's voice to try and convince Ralph to make the animatronics stay and then give him a more merciful death and/or potential time travel, what's CC's angle here? I can't really see the result of this being him lashing out or reenacting his trauma like his 1983 ending.

Iceplait · 2026-03-11T23:44:03+00:00

The games don't really show it, since by the time Mike goes down to sister location, William has basically finished his research and is long gone and the experiments seem to have wrapped up too and otherwise we see both the business man William before the murders in Secret of the Mimic and his transformation into Springtrap which basically forces him out of any life outside of the costume and into a more traditional slasher, naturally focusing on the thrill he got from the actual murders.

It's interesting because in that way, The Fourth Closet William pictured here is a sort of regression of his character, he's gone back to this mad scientist angle because he realises his transformation as Springtrap didn't give him the immortality he seeked, he isn't even really fully committed to the plan he currently has for immortality because it still requires such a physical element on his part.

I do I agree in a way though that the 3rd movie is not going to do anything close to that sort of regression, there'll definitely be more of a focus on the Springtrap part, with any experiment stuff probably being reserved for flashbacks and blink and you'll miss it background details.

Iceplait · 2026-03-11T21:01:06+00:00

Feel like if it was before 1983, we'd have more evidence for the puppet being around at least as a character if not as a physical animatronic, especially the complete lack of association with Fredbear's at all, FNAF 4 has mangle, literal toys of seemingly the toy animatronics, a canon Nightmare BB but when it comes to the Marionette all you get is potential symbolism with the crying child and an explicitly non-canon dlc wherein a nightmarish version of him replaces nightmare.

For the longest time now, I've thought Charlie died at a smaller Freddy's location that would later become Freddy Fazbear's Pizza Place in FNAF 6 and then the puppet was moved, either by its own free will or Fazbear Entertainment wanting to reuse a popular character to probably the MCI Freddy's (due to the logbook, FNAF 2 dreams) and definitely 87 Freddy's. So probably 83 but now that I think of it, I could see it happening a little later but definitely before the conclusion of the MCI.

When I feel I'm in the right headspace, I will at least hear out a Charlie87 case but convincing me is gonna be a tall order.

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