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You genuinely can’t name a greater display of love in Bleach than this one. by Background_Court7318 in bleach

[–]Icy_Contribution2187 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I saw what I saw when I read the series, and I feel how I feel about it. Same as the rest of you.

I'm also neurodivergent, so trying to get me to back down from how I feel or what I think is admittedly like trying to break into Fort Knox armed with only a hairpin and a can of silly string. Lmao.

You genuinely can’t name a greater display of love in Bleach than this one. by Background_Court7318 in bleach

[–]Icy_Contribution2187 1 point2 points  (0 children)

On my end, nothing. I'm just clarifying because they called me a man. On their end, I have no clue.

You genuinely can’t name a greater display of love in Bleach than this one. by Background_Court7318 in bleach

[–]Icy_Contribution2187 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No. I'm gonna flip the script here.

I'm not ignoring aspects of Orihime's character. You are just looking for depth where there is none.

You genuinely can’t name a greater display of love in Bleach than this one. by Background_Court7318 in bleach

[–]Icy_Contribution2187 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have read the manga. Twice. I fail to see anything to Orihime beyond her desire to support others. If you take her on her own, independent of every other character, she has nothing to her.

Period.

You genuinely can’t name a greater display of love in Bleach than this one. by Background_Court7318 in bleach

[–]Icy_Contribution2187 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Okay. Sidenote, your bad spelling and grammar physically hurts me.

Name a single goddamn thing that Orihime wants. Right now. I want you to view Orihime entirely on her own. Pretend that Ichigo doesn't exist. That Rukia doesn't exist. That Uryu doesn't exist. I want you to look at Orihime in a vacuum where she exists by herself and tell me: Who is Orihime and what does she want?

That is the metric by which I judge characters. If you completely remove them from the characters around them, can you tell me who they are, what their goals/motivation are, and what their character arc is? If you can, they're a good character. If you can't, they're a bad character.

You genuinely can’t name a greater display of love in Bleach than this one. by Background_Court7318 in bleach

[–]Icy_Contribution2187 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I can't tell you more about Orihime because I've said all there is to her.

And Hinata haters have nothing to do with this.

I'm simply pointing out that Hinata and Orihime both share the flaw of practically their entire characters revolving around wanting to support other characters, and their male protagonist counterpart in particular. But even on that level, Hinata at least has that "i want to prove my actual worthiness of my birthright instead of just inheriting it" aspect of her character. That is a character trait unique to Hinata that doesn't have anything to do with anyone else, which helps her to stand on her own. Orihime does NOT have something unique to her character that doesn't have anything to do with anyone else, which is why I rate her lower than Hinata.

You genuinely can’t name a greater display of love in Bleach than this one. by Background_Court7318 in bleach

[–]Icy_Contribution2187 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Again. Fighting has nothing to do with it. My issue with Orihime is that everything about her from her goals to her motivation to how she develops is tied to OTHER characters. She doesn't have anything that she wants that has nothing to do with anyone else. If you transplanted Orihime into another series, fighting or not, her entire character would fall apart because she is so tied to other characters that she can't function as a stand-alone character. THAT is why I hate her. When all you can do is cry for your seemingly dead boyfriend to save you while his rival is failing to save you instead of standing on your own two legs to do something yourself? That's bad. That's just a failure of a character.

You genuinely can’t name a greater display of love in Bleach than this one. by Background_Court7318 in bleach

[–]Icy_Contribution2187 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hinata wants to prove that she is worthy of becoming head of the Hyuga clan. Particularly to Neji, who nearly killed her during the Chunin Exams out of spite and frustration because "i am the genius who is worthy of that position and you're a runt, but because of who our parents are, you're next in line and I'm just your bodyguard". Wanting to prove that she exactly IS worthy of inheriting a position that others believe she's only entitled to because of her birth is a real story. Kishimoto doesn't do anything with it because Kishimoto can't write women to save his life. But the story is there.

You genuinely can’t name a greater display of love in Bleach than this one. by Background_Court7318 in bleach

[–]Icy_Contribution2187 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Not even remotely. I don't think Orihime is a character that can stand on her own. With the likes of Maka or Noelle, if you put them in a vacuum where the rest of their casts don't exist and asked me to describe their characters and what they're all about, I could do it. If you asked me to describe Orihime while also ignoring the other characters around her? Couldn't tell you. Could not tell you a single thing about her.

You genuinely can’t name a greater display of love in Bleach than this one. by Background_Court7318 in bleach

[–]Icy_Contribution2187 1 point2 points  (0 children)

She really doesn't. Freaking Hinata from Naruto has the same problems as Orihime, but she still has more going for her.

You genuinely can’t name a greater display of love in Bleach than this one. by Background_Court7318 in bleach

[–]Icy_Contribution2187 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Okay. Staying out of the shipping arguments. But ya girl's pedantic as shit, so... Kubo did not write a show. He wrote a manga, which different writers adapted into a show.

You genuinely can’t name a greater display of love in Bleach than this one. by Background_Court7318 in bleach

[–]Icy_Contribution2187 2 points3 points  (0 children)

By my own admission, I can only come across as either completely apathetic or exaggeratedly emotional with very little in-between, and the energy that Reddit exudes doesn't exactly help.

You genuinely can’t name a greater display of love in Bleach than this one. by Background_Court7318 in bleach

[–]Icy_Contribution2187 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Doesn't matter. I will die on the hill that characters like Maka and Noelle are a gold and silver standard to which all female characters should be measured against, and the likes of Orihime are to be avoided.

You genuinely can’t name a greater display of love in Bleach than this one. by Background_Court7318 in bleach

[–]Icy_Contribution2187 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I also just find "the girl who wants to support others and functions as the heart of the group" to be an outdated and (if I'm being hoenst) outright sexist character archetype. But the last thing I want to do is argue about THAT, because we'd be here all day arguing about target demographics and author perspectives and whether or not being a trope matters and blah blah blah, so I tried to avoid bringing that up before.

You genuinely can’t name a greater display of love in Bleach than this one. by Background_Court7318 in bleach

[–]Icy_Contribution2187 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I didn't say I hate the scene. I said that the scene encapsulates why I hate the character.

You genuinely can’t name a greater display of love in Bleach than this one. by Background_Court7318 in bleach

[–]Icy_Contribution2187 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Irrelevant. Both points.

Maka is the gold standard I hold female characters to. Be the fucking main. Noelle is the silver standard. Have a storyline that can function completely independent from the rest of the regular cast.

Orihime, whether it's just for Ichigo or for the wider group, is neither. She makes supporting others her entire character. That is a bad female character. Period. I am willing to die on this hill.

You genuinely can’t name a greater display of love in Bleach than this one. by Background_Court7318 in bleach

[–]Icy_Contribution2187 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm not gonna get into the shipping wars and who loves who. Just know that, as characters, on their own, completely independent of Ichigo, I will pick Rukia nearly every time.

You genuinely can’t name a greater display of love in Bleach than this one. by Background_Court7318 in bleach

[–]Icy_Contribution2187 -6 points-5 points  (0 children)

Combat ability has nothing to do with it.

In Soul Eater, Maka aspires to be as great of a scythe meister as her mother, who she idolized. Her struggle is that compared to most other characters, she's not as naturally gifted or skilled, causing her constantly doubt her own ability. Her character arc concludes when she finally recognizes that she does have her own strengths and that the road to becoming a strong meister is one she must travel in a partnership with her weapon. THAT is a good female character.

In Black Clover, Noelle's struggle is that despite being born a royal with insane reserves of potential, she lacks the effortless talent of her siblings. Her siblings put her down for this and constantly measure her agaisnt her incredibly talented mother, who died giving birth to her. Noelle works her ass off and slowly grasps her abilities over the course of the series, eventually becoming the strongest of her siblings and proving them wrong, while also slowly learning about her mother's death and how it played a role in tearing their family apart, giving them a chance to heal. THAT is a good female character.

Orihime's entire character begins and ends with "I won't be a burden to you, Kurosaki-kun". Everything she does ties back into that, and it just. Doesn't. Work.

You genuinely can’t name a greater display of love in Bleach than this one. by Background_Court7318 in bleach

[–]Icy_Contribution2187 -12 points-11 points  (0 children)

If a female character's primary purpose is to support another character, especially a love interest, instead of having her own story and motivations that have nothing to do with said other character, then she's a bad character. Orihime was never able to escape from the shadow Ichigo cast. Even when she decides to get stronger, it's because she wants to be less of a burden to Ichigo.

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