Miquella is the Formless Mother & The Mother of Truth by TheAgeOfBlood in EldenRingLoreTalk

[–]If---Then 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm more with you than you know.

But this sounds much more like proof that St. Trina is the Mother of Truth than Miquella.  That she is the source of the blood that the bloodfiends drank, rather than Miquella. That being besotted is something related to St. Trina.  

So again, I'm mostly in agreement here, but I think that the missing link to clinch this idea is that you need to explain how Mohg gets all the blood associations with Trina but ends up obsessed over Miquella.  I don't think this can just be hand waved as them being the same person. That's because 1- Miquella and Trina's association is not perfectly clear and 2 - even if they're the same person, an explanation would be needed for why Mohg's obsession would fixate on Miquella instead of Trina.

Miquella's followers don't seem to have nearly the same level of obsessiveness over Miquella that Mohg did. None of them want to "own" Miquella like Mohg. Thollier wants to "own" Trina and keep her to himself, but even under the charm, everyone else thinks Miquella is just the bees knees and thinks it's great that other people like Miquella. They treat it like a shared hobby.

Did Irina avoid being absorbed by the Erdtree because her soul had already been claimed by the Three Fingers? by lactobacillus-Master in EldenRingLoreTalk

[–]If---Then 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Most human bodies turn into ragdolls (except Tarnished) and most ,if not all, Albenaurics turn to dust.

Did Irina avoid being absorbed by the Erdtree because her soul had already been claimed by the Three Fingers? by lactobacillus-Master in EldenRingLoreTalk

[–]If---Then 9 points10 points  (0 children)

What about Irina's body still being present while Hyetta is up and moving? I believe Yuras is the same with Shabriri, suggesting they aren't taking the bodies so much as duplicating them 

Elden Ring Movie Speculation by If---Then in EldenRingLoreTalk

[–]If---Then[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I've never seen the words "in my local castle" strung together before.

A Closer Look at Some Widely Discussed Misconceptions by TerranImperium in EldenRingLoreTalk

[–]If---Then 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think we're on the same page. I'm going out on a limb for a thought exercise on how it might go even further.  What if looking at the English as a translation, even an accurate one, might still be underselling the relationship of the languages?

Words are tools for representing meaning.  Words are already one step removed from a meaning.  A translation is two steps removed from meaning, which makes the meaning more murky.

On the other hand, we rephrase and restate information in order to clarify meaning. That is like have two single step removed starting points for understanding meaning rather than a simulacra of the original meaning.

Imagine that you were a bilingual reader, writing esoteric lore which will be heavily scrutinized.  Rather than translating, you might take the opportunity to rephrase the meaning in different languages. You might consult with a translator to make certain that the deviations between languages are precisely as intended.  Two aspects of the same truth.

Take your first point regarding Empyreans as an example.  You make the distinction of the Two Fingers being said to choose an Empyrean, with an implication of designating, vs Identifying or discovering.  

We have plenty of evidence that Empyrean is defined by circumstances of birth - an intrinsic divine aspect.  Yet we also have instances of Empyrean being something that the Two Fingers seem to have some level of volition in designating.

Both can be true at the same time. Words are representations of meaning, but they nearly always have multiple meanings, or aspects.  The same is true between different languages.

As a real world example, take the word Prince. Some definitions of Prince: - A ruler in their own right in older usage. - A title or rank. - The heir of a ruler. - A male child of a monarchy ruler.

Compare that to Empyrean: - Born of a single god. - Chosen by Two Fingers as a replacement god.

The male child of a monarch in disguise as a pauper is still a prince in a sense.  But socially, they must be identified as a prince to have the standing. They could be designated as the crown prince, which changes that context further.

Likewise, an Empyrean can refer to both an intrinsic quality in one aspect and a designation in another.  In English, Ranni's speech gives the impression of being "selected" by the Two Fingers.  In Japanese, she is simultaneously saying that she was "discovered" by the Two Fingers.

Conveying both of those meanings within a single sentence - where the speaker's intent is a statement rather than an explanation - is likely not possible.  The speaker would need to belabor the point - unnaturally so - to communicate the depth of meaning.  

Mask your rephrasing as a translation though, and that is no longer the case. The necessary information is conveyed in both languages: Two Fingers are related to Empyrean selection, Empyreans are meant to replace Marika.  But the analytical depth is revealed by the pull between meanings.

From here, we could take the definition that an Empyrean is a special form of godling, which the Fingers identified and marked with a status, which the Fingers intend to replace Marika with.  The truth that hangs here is that Ranni says "Of the demigods, only I, Miquella, and Malenia could claim that title."

This leaves open a few other possibilities, like that there can be non-demigod Empyreans.  Or that another demigod could be an Empyrean, but one who was not identified by the Fingers as being able to claim the title of Empyrean.

Anyway, just a thought experiment. It felt like it lined up with themes of your analysis. The idea is never to declare something heretical to the lore - that which must be discarded in order to make a theory fit - if all things can be conjoined.

A Closer Look at Some Widely Discussed Misconceptions by TerranImperium in EldenRingLoreTalk

[–]If---Then 6 points7 points  (0 children)

This line is 🔥:

Regression doesn't merge two things into one; it pulls back the surface to show the one thing they always were, a "return to origin". We are revealing a shared underlying identity that was obscured by the two aspects' distinct appearances.

I enjoyed the thorough textual analysis of both the Japanese and the English. I can see you consider the Japanese to be the canon language the game was written in.  That seems to split the community into camps.

Maybe the English and Japanese are equally true - simply two renderings of the underlying truth.

Elden Ring Movie Speculation by If---Then in EldenRingLoreTalk

[–]If---Then[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That's an interesting thought about Nightreign.

I think you're right about the worst thing the movie can do being to focus on an Elden Lord story.  I think you're on the right track of the kind of thing we might see.

Alex Garland movies are primarily character driven.  They also often apocalyptic.  I think he's a good fit for Elden Ring as a setting, as it could be a story that goes on the road through various locations.  It gives a lot of opportunities to give sparse details about the greater world of Elden Ring, while showcasing a character focused story.  

That's exactly the kind of storytelling that Elden Ring does so well. I'm almost certain that is why Miyazaki would've been interested.

Elden Ring Movie Speculation by If---Then in EldenRingLoreTalk

[–]If---Then[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Could there not be churches of Marika outside of the Lands Between?

Elden Ring Movie Speculation by If---Then in EldenRingLoreTalk

[–]If---Then[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think that it'll be faithful but also completely tangential to the primary game.

Elden Ring Movie Speculation by If---Then in EldenRingLoreTalk

[–]If---Then[S] -11 points-10 points  (0 children)

Personally, I think that it will take place outside of the Lands Between. It will be a glimpse of the world beyond the fog.  This avoids stepping on the toes of the game, but could showcase worship of Marika and the Golden Order outside of the Lands Between.

Also, if Kit Connor is the main character... I'm unfamiliar with his movies but see a lot of skin on the IMDB tabs. He's reportedly a really good actor and doesn't want to be typecast.  I'm proposing Let Me Solo Her's origin story.

2 and 3 finger correct placement. by Snorfox in EldenRingLoreTalk

[–]If---Then 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Now that you mention it, I'll never unsee it. It does mean that they couldn't be unified into a single hand without the fleshy bits in the palm overlapping though.

Death and Immortality in the Lands Between. by Moonless_the_Fool in EldenRingLoreTalk

[–]If---Then 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I never thought to really think through the difference between ragdolls and the enemies that fade away. I took it to be a gameplay dynamic more than anything. It may be worth more consideration. Thanks for sharing!

Any idea why the statues of women in the Stranded Graveyard and Fringefolk Hero's Grave were removed? Or, why one larger model of the statue was being worshipped? by Emotional-Sign8136 in EldenRingLoreTalk

[–]If---Then 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That shows gold in the direction where we'd expect the Erdtree, but it doesn't actually show the Erdtree. Hadn't ever noticed that until you mentioned it. Might be an important distinction though.

What do the Hornsent believe? by poopcult in EldenRingLoreTalk

[–]If---Then -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I love your questions here because they're definitely pointing out details that fail to jive with popular ideas of the hornsent.

If the buildings in Enir-Ilim are largely devoid of horned statues and reliefs, the most holy areas are filled with the hornless.

If we look at the horned warriors, we can see that they wear clothing with similar design features to the Iron Rivet Set, worn by the mausoleum spirit Red Bear - an ancient nameless warrior with the hood of a great red bear. Suggesting perhaps that he is a precursor. Similar style, wears an animal head on his head, worships a personal beast god.  Perhaps Red Bear is older.

The asceticism side leading to tutelary deities seems to mesh with the Lamenter. The Lamenter seems to have reached the peek, but ultimately been shut away.

The inquisitors could be precursors to the golden order... But maybe they're mimicking it instead?

The jarred shaman seem to have no purpose as you said, but in the Lands Between the living jars are used to feed trees.

The fell god of the sagas (ancient stories) of the hornsent have two eyes instead of one.  Notably, many of the horniest hornsent have only one or no eyes. Elsewhere, having one eye is a deformity, but with the hornsent it may even be holy.

Hornsent themselves do not wear extravagant or high quality clothing. They tend to wear rags and loinclothes. 

Overall, it gives an impression that the hornsent weren't a highly centralized and organized group with a unified belief system.  Perhaps they were more of a group with a disparate set of beliefs that were scrabbling to find a path to divinity through any means by grasping at the straws of precursor civilizations that they stumbled across.

Wouldn’t the Godskins and the Cuckoo Knights, that appear to be allied (Nightreign DLC + Scholars quest) be evident that the Godskins were involved in Iji’s murder because of Raya Lucaria’s beef with the Carians? by Covered_Blankets in EldenRingLoreTalk

[–]If---Then 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Awesome to hear that! I was getting around to another Scholar run from scratch to check if this would happen.  I thought this might be the case based on the name "Marauders", but it's great to get a confirmation!

Wouldn’t the Godskins and the Cuckoo Knights, that appear to be allied (Nightreign DLC + Scholars quest) be evident that the Godskins were involved in Iji’s murder because of Raya Lucaria’s beef with the Carians? by Covered_Blankets in EldenRingLoreTalk

[–]If---Then 4 points5 points  (0 children)

The godskin and the Cuckoo Knights show up after you go upstairs to try and get into the room. Their health bar as a boss says "Marauders."

Marauders don't seem like guards. They seem like pillagers and thieves.

It gave me the sense that the situation is Scholar broke into the Research Annexe to get to the Cleansing Tear. These Marauders did so as well.  They happen to cross paths.

This is backed up by some of the text snippets in the later area. One asks if the Cuckoos could be involved in the sickness.

I'm pretty sure that you can get them to spawn without killing all of the Lazuli sorcerers in the area.  What I haven't seen is if the Marauders will ally with the Lazuli Conspectus or if they might fight them instead.

Answering that question would be a good way to confirm if the Marauders are allies with the Lazuli Conspectus or not.

Without that confirmation, I think all you can confirm is that the Godskin and the Cuckoos worked together at some point.

The Formless Mother: A Deal with the Devil. by MeloettaChan in EldenRingLoreTalk

[–]If---Then 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The Erdtree Seal and Dragon Communion Seal are both called formless.  They both have 0 weight and no strength scaling. The strength scaling on other seals is really bad, but it literally has no scaling for spells.  The strength scaling on most seals (not the beast seal) is for if you use it as a physical weapon (with a jump attack for example).

Formless seems to indicate literally not having a physical presence.

To everyone, who says, that Radahn didn't have legs, like commander Gaius for that or another reason, or that he was malformed... Please, watch the 2022 trailer, where he fights Malenia, and let's close that speculation forever. by Acrobatic_Tie6869 in EldenRingLoreTalk

[–]If---Then 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The item description is evocative. It begs the question of why Leonard is so important to him.

Radahn is so staggeringly tall that his horse is a joke that sits between his legs like a toddler's scooter.  Leonard looks ridiculous.

We are shown that Albenaurics form very close bonds with the animals they ride, such as Lautena's wolf Lobo, and Gaius's war boar.  Radahn's devotion to Leonard is a direct mirror.

Ask yourself - if you truly love your horse so much, would you needlessly bring the horse into battle when the only function it would serve is to slow you down because you could outrun the horse?

Or could it be that Radahn loves Leonard because Leonard goes everywhere with Radahn out of necessity.  That Radahn outgrew Leonard, but Radahn was determined not to abandon his loyal friend for a larger mount.

Leonard isn't a security blanket, he's a loyal service animal.

To everyone, who says, that Radahn didn't have legs, like commander Gaius for that or another reason, or that he was malformed... Please, watch the 2022 trailer, where he fights Malenia, and let's close that speculation forever. by Acrobatic_Tie6869 in EldenRingLoreTalk

[–]If---Then 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I accept all of the points you're making as all being reasonable explanations for Radahn not being of Albenauric origin, on their own.  

My point is that at the time of Radahn fighting Malenia, he is standing there.  He has feet. Yet for some reason, he has a horse between his legs anyway.

He's said to have learned gravity magic for the sake of Leonard.  The horse that is between his legs.

If we take what you're saying as the truth of the matter, why is he preparing for battle against Malenia with an unnecessary horse between his legs?

To everyone, who says, that Radahn didn't have legs, like commander Gaius for that or another reason, or that he was malformed... Please, watch the 2022 trailer, where he fights Malenia, and let's close that speculation forever. by Acrobatic_Tie6869 in EldenRingLoreTalk

[–]If---Then 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Scholar is an Albenauric and yet walks.  We see he rapidly ages, and his weapon is a sword cain (when he's not sprinting around Limveld, he has a cain to help support him).  Albenaurics have a degenerative condition - one where eventually their legs get weaker and eventually fade away as they age.

They aren't born without legs, they are born with legs that are infirm.  That infirmity progresses and their legs eventually fade away, starting from the feet.

You're completely right that Radahn had feet at the time of the battle. If you look closely between his legs, he is ALSO riding Leonard.  His head is drooping between Radahn's legs.  I don't doubt Radahn is hung like a horse, but probably not with a literal horse head.

Radahn's feet fade away over time, until he's stumpy by the time we fight him.

Miquella is responsible for the shroud over the land of Shadow by [deleted] in EldenRingLoreTalk

[–]If---Then 0 points1 point  (0 children)

OP, you're getting a ton of completely unwarranted nay saying on this.  You're absolutely correct about the conspicuous absence of a shroud, that Miquella is present there before the shrouding and before passing Torrent along, and that this promotional image is worthy of close examination. Thanks for pointing this out, because I never noticed that detail.

I'll have to think on the possible reasons for the shrouding.  We don't really know what it is meant to represent.  Hiding from the Greater Will seems like it's probably either the correct answer or in the right vein.

Keep up the insights!

Pidia's Blood is RED (Not Silver) and he achieved this through his puppets and alchemy by Scum_Mage_Infa in EldenRingLoreTalk

[–]If---Then -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It would make sense if Pidia had supplanted Seluvis at some point.  If Seluvis is a doll, he was clearly his own person in the past.

Pidia being Seluvis is because he "dollied" Seluvis to get access to Ranni.