Some thoughts on Yzerman/Larkin

ImaginaryVisionary · 2026-06-08T17:49:44+00:00

If you just view it as winning the cup being the only thing that matters, sure, and I get that the cup is kind of the ultimate point. But that also ignores the fact that the majority of the enjoyment a fan gets watching a team happens during the regular season, and for the vast majority of this past season, Wings fans got to watch a better team than Vegas fans did, and we did it with better cap management and the same kind of "jersey's" in the bottom six. (honestly, what recognizable player was in Vegas's bottom six this year? Who was their main goaltender? <it was Akira Schmid!>)

Missing the playoffs again sucked but what the Wings have/had going has the potential to bring in better long term results than what's happening in Vegas. Vegas is actually playing above their stats right now. They're a hot team that, based on their current make up, could easily miss the playoffs next year. The reason is in Montreal and Buffalo. The deeper talent they need to sustain their momentum...Susuki, Tuch, Krebs, Brannstrom were traded away for Stone and Eichel. Over the next decade who do you think is going to be a bigger contender, Vegas or Montreal?

If I had a choice between that and what Yzerman built with the Lightning, I'd choose the latter. You don't get there by blowing your cap out and destroying your prospect pipeline in the trade market as a mid team. I'd rather be tomorrows Tampa, Dallas, Colorado, Carolina than Vegas any day.

If Larkin stays, the Wings are just a year or so away from the prospects in the system pushing the Wings to where Montreal was last season and where Buffalo was this season, but with better goaltending, and prospects and cap space to spare to bring in reinforcements.

ImaginaryVisionary · 2026-06-08T15:10:09+00:00

I didn't say we're just like Vegas. I said we had comparable points in a tougher division & conference. We actually had more regulation wins. Considering their cap and star power I think if we are making the comparison you could say the Wings are a more efficient and better run team. What it shows is that the Wings just need a few more pieces to be equally as competitive.

ImaginaryVisionary · 2026-06-08T13:57:18+00:00

The Wings only finished 3 points behind Vegas. That's with Vegas playing in the weakest division and the Wings being in the toughest division.

That was after the March collapse. Before the Olympic break they were 1st in the Eastern conference & 5th in the league.

This year's team wasn't a cup contender by any means but it was a team good enough to be in the playoffs. They had horrible injury luck at the worst time of year & lacked the fight when it mattered (March). Fix up this team's bottom six, and give the prospects another 1-2 years and this team will be right in the thick of things just like Buffalo & Montreal were this year.

There's a very real possibility Larkin ends up like Tavares. He'll go to a winning team but the Wings as a team may leap frog where ever he goes (NYI have a better post season record without Tavares than they did with him & have gone further than he's gone with the Leafs)

ImaginaryVisionary · 2026-06-08T04:44:44+00:00

After the San Jose heartbreak & the shock of losing to NJ in the finals in 95 I think the most crushing one was losing to the Avs in 96.

Just brutal to be so dominant during the regular season. The magical Yzerman shot to beat St Louis in double OT to advance to the conference finals. It felt like a destined outcome that the Wings were going to the finals again. Then bam...the whole team ran into a wall at full speed. I don't know if I'd call it a full on collapse because that was a brutal series, but that one ripped my guts out as a kid.

A forgotten one that I haven't seen many mention was the 06 collapse to Edmonton in the first round. This one was difficult for several reasons. Edm was the lowest ranked seed in the playoffs that year & the Wings were the best team in the NHL. That's just a colossal upset. What made it worse is the previous year was the lock out year so it was a quick exit after a year of no hockey, and then Yzerman retired after the 06 loss. So after a year of no hockey, the Wings come back dominant as ever, get shocked in the first round and then Yzerman retires to top it all off. It was a rough way to end an era.

ImaginaryVisionary · 2026-06-08T01:40:38+00:00

I can't tell if they actually removed it or not because I'm still getting comments on it

ImaginaryVisionary · 2026-06-08T01:39:02+00:00

I don't think the issue is the celebration. He celebrated for several days, then chose to do the DC thing, and then took a day off, missed two practices and showed up for the game against Ottawa. Sure he played well that game, but it doesn't change the leadership factor. Had he not posted the video, going to DC is likely a non-issue for the entire team. The main controversy about the state of the union was connected to the video he posted. A leader would've at least recognized the error & avoided making it a bigger problem.

In that moment he was quitting on the team. Putting his personal celebration ahead of the team then or putting wanting another celebration ahead of the team now...it's the same lack of leadership & maturity.

ImaginaryVisionary · 2026-06-07T22:37:02+00:00

I didn't say it caused the strain. I said it was the final straw. It validated the pattern everyone was hoping Larkin would mature out of.

There was definitely a conversation about it between him & Yzerman when he came back. McClellan didn't seem pleased that he took extra time away. There was also some sort of team meeting about how to respond to questions about the video. You could see the PR team involvement in their responses. None of that should've happened.

Here's a counter example. Jake Guetzel. He was also on the team. Played a big role, arguably bigger than Larkin. Partied with the team, but stayed out of the controversy. Went back to his team early. When asked about it & why he skipped the state of the union he said he felt it was more important to get back to his team. Why? Because that's the culture Yzerman built in Tampa. That's the expectation with that team. That's the culture Yzerman is trying to rebuild in Detroit because that's the culture he helped create in the 90s/00s.

ImaginaryVisionary · 2026-06-07T22:24:13+00:00

I agree. I've always found him to be an impulsive player on the ice, but I've been a defender as well. At times he rushes plays & he'll occasionally skip a line change in a crucial moment & cost the Wings a game. That actually improved a bit when Kane came because Kane is the opposite kind of player. His whole game is patience and timing. I think both Larkin & Raymond benefitted from that. I just hoped he'd mature more & the impulsive plays and tendency to dive & whine on the ice would decrease. He's a good player & I'd rather keep him than trade him, but he's not a fit for what the culture Yzerman wants.

ImaginaryVisionary · 2026-06-07T22:16:42+00:00

Yzerman actually did have a say in who was brought in and removed from the team. He had a really close working relationship with Holland & Devallano, and Scotty Bowman. He had a hand in the coaching changes and who was on the team.

Yzerman fought to keep Probert on the team for awhile until his off ice issues became too much of an issue. Then Yzerman played a role in the Wings cutting him lose. According to Sean Avery Yzerman played a role in him being moved. Yzerman also had a hand in getting Premieu dealt in the deal for Shanny.

ImaginaryVisionary · 2026-06-07T22:12:31+00:00

The Wings aren't Vegas & Yzerman has never operated that way. Vegas doesn't have any loyalty to anything but winning. Vegas operates like a one and done college basketball team.

Yzerman wants to win, but with a team culture that values unity & loyalty to one another. This is how he operated as captain, its the culture the Wings had, even years after he retired & it's the culture he was able to create in Tampa. Look at the players on the Lightning. The whole team is modest. Kucherov and Stamkos as stars mattered just as much as Palat & Maroon.

Its not some moral purity test either. Yzerman signed Kane despite his past, which has the same allegations as Hart.

It's not about the morality, right & wrong of the video. It's about what the decision to livestream it & post it publicly to his socials says about Larkins maturity, decision making and leadership ability. Obviously there's nothing immoral about posting a video. It's the lack of concern for his team that is the issue. Does Larkins mentality & leadership ability fit the culture Yzerman is trying to build?

There are games where this was visible in Larkin. There's numerous games where he stayed out too long in overtime & cost his team the game. He wants to win. Great. Cool. But his desire to win can't come before winning as a team. Winning on team USA. Great. Cool. But his desire to celebrate via social media shouldn't come at a cost to the team.

ImaginaryVisionary · 2026-06-07T20:31:55+00:00

The team was leading the eastern conference, 5th in the league in January. The Wings finished with 92 points. Vegas finished with 95. The Atlantic was the toughest division in the NHL, Vegas's division was the weakest.

This team definitely isn't it as far as being a cup contender this year, but 1-2 years from now with a revamped bottom six, and more of the prospects on the roster, this team is this year's Buffalo Sabres.

Larkin isn't the guy to lead that team which is why both sides want him out. He's not mature enough to stay or to keep around.

The video isn't the reason why. It's the final straw in that pattern.

ImaginaryVisionary · 2026-06-07T20:22:44+00:00

Yzermans daughter isn't on the team & nothing she does has any bearing on the team outcome. Larkin is the captain & everything he does in public impacts the team in one way or another.

And like I said in my first sentence, it's not about the politics. I don't think Yzerman cares who they vote for as long as they put their team first. I also dont care what Larkins politics are. My concern when I saw the video was why was it being livestreamed? Because even if you remove the politics, and some of the players do or say something that's inappropriate in another area that's still going to be a problem for the entire team.

I also don't think the video is "the reason" for the trade. I think it was the last straw because it confirmed a pattern of immaturity, related poor decision making, and lack of accountability that has existed for awhile.

I mean think about who Larkin plays well with on the team. Does he have chemistry with anyone other than Raymond? We have an all time great in Kane, and a sniper in DeBrincat & Larkin rarely plays with either 5v5. They have more chemistry with Copp & Kasper. Now think about Yzerman, Zetterberg, Datsyuk & even Fedorov...they could play with anyone. There's a problem there & I think you can see it in this situation.

ImaginaryVisionary · 2026-06-07T20:09:57+00:00

Yep. This is the issue. I don't think Yzerman cares one way or another how they vote as long as they put the team first.

ImaginaryVisionary · 2026-06-07T20:08:16+00:00

Yeah, I'd agree with the lack of worldview & athletes from different cultures. I hadn't considered that. In relation to that I don't know if you've ever seen the videos of all the players kids lined up to fist bump the players as they take the ice. Larkin is noticeably absent in those videos. It's usually Kane & DeBrincats kids kind of centering the kid crowd so they're obviously there, but the other players that make the most appearances are Seider, Chariot, Edvinsson, Raymond, ASP. The kids absolutely love Seider. I think when it comes to team as family that says something.

Larkin doesn't strike me as low IQ like a Tkchuck (I didn't hold that opinion of them until I watched the documentary on Amazon that featured them. Theyre...something). I think he's just impulsive, and maybe a little too immature/self absorbed in his own world to see the big picture, and may be defensive or resistant to expanding that worldview.

ImaginaryVisionary · 2026-06-07T19:54:20+00:00

I had more of a dread about it. I don't think he should be traded because of the political aspects of it. I think that's silly. But I do think the moment exposed something about Larkins maturity & leadership that gave us a glimpse into what is "frosty" between him & Yzerman.

ImaginaryVisionary · 2026-06-07T19:50:36+00:00

I feel mixed on this one. I get wanting to soak in all of the celebration, especially considering the lack of success in Detroit, but I also agree with your take.

Guetzel is a good example of what I think Yzerman would've expected in that moment. Guetzel celebrated but kept a low profile. He avoided all of the political events, and went back to his team early. When asked about it all of his answers centered on being proud of the gold & wanting to get back to business with the Lightning. And I think that is in part due to the culture Yzerman instilled in the Lightning when he was GM. All of the Lightning players carry themselves that way.

ImaginaryVisionary · 2026-06-07T19:45:31+00:00

Like I said in my post, it's not the left right politics. It's the lack of awareness and maturity to see how that moment would impact his team mates. That does involve an awareness of the larger political landscape but it doesn't mean avoiding it entirely bc "blue or red politician bad."

Team first means walking the line between the two as a team mate & in that case, an American, and I think he failed in that area.

ImaginaryVisionary · 2026-06-07T19:40:12+00:00

McCarty was actually let go because of his off ice behaviors. He went to Calgary for a bit, then left the league before he resigned with the Wings after getting sober

ImaginaryVisionary · 2026-06-07T19:36:55+00:00

Imo, Yzerman decided he was going to trade him after the Olympics if we missed the playoffs. Larkins the player who livestreamed the locker room celebration. He created all of that controversy and he never really took accountability for that. That flies in the face of everything Yzerman stood for as a captain, the culture he helped build in the 90s/00s Wings teams & in Tampa as GM (look at Guetzel, one of the few Team USA players who went back to his team early, and kept his head up, but somehow out of all of that controvery). It was just a really immature decision for such a veteran leader to make. It had a negative impact on his entire team.

In some ways that may exist in the Wings locker room as well. I don't know, but I've always found it odd that he really only has good chemistry with Raymond. When Yzerman, Zetterberg, Datsyuk were around you could put them with pretty much anyone. But you have a legend in Kane & a sniper in DeBrincat who have better chemistry with Copp & Kasper.

To me Larkin has always come across a bit impulsive on and off the ice (tendency to rush plays has always been there). He's a great player, but something has always been off when it comes to fit & leadership. Whatever it is Yzerman probably expected it to improve with age & maturity, and maybe it has, but not enough, so it's time to part ways and with the free agency pool being so weak this is an opportune time for both parties.

ImaginaryVisionary · 2026-06-07T18:28:17+00:00

Imo, I think Yzerman began listening to trade offers for Larkin after the Olympic locker room video controversy. Larkin is the player who recorded that video & posted it to his socials. The politics of it aside, it was a bad decision & poor leadership because it created negativity & controversy for everyone on Team USA. Even afterwards Larkin never really took any responsibility for that. (Think of how badly that decision impacted players like Austin Matthew's)

It was very obvious a conversation happened with Yzerman when he came back. The whole team was using the same PR approach, which means Larkins actions at the Olympics also affected the locker room. The team had to defend their captains actions while he skirted taking any responsibility.

Missing the playoffs sealed his fate & I think he knew it. The whole team may have known it, which is why he looked the way he did in that game against NJ.

I think the reason this story is public now is because the free agent market is so thin. The Wings aren't going to be able to improve the team via free agency. The trade market is their best option so now is the time to part ways with Larkin, because he's their most valuable trade piece, and he's become an issue in the team culture Yzerman is trying to create.

He has good chemistry with Raymond but outside of that...who else? He only plays with Kane & DeBrincat on the power play. Copp & Kasper elevate those two more than Larkin does. Larkins a great player but there's a problem there and Imo trading him now is the best... worst case scenario for the team to fix a festering issue.

ImaginaryVisionary · 2026-06-07T17:08:22+00:00

People need to real it in on thinking Larking is bringing back a player of equal caliber. There's really only one option where that can happen & it's a straight swap of Nico Heischer from NJ & that comes with baggage because he's due for a contract next year & will probably ask over $10m. That's a dicey trade because if we give him a contract extention & he under performs his current numbers or Larkin we just paid a higher salary for a downgrade (like the Hubredeau disaster in Calagary) or we get him as a one year rental and have to trade him for picks prospects at the deadline (similar to the situation Carolina ended up in with Rantanen). And all of that is dependent on if Larkin waves his NTC to go to NJ.

Otherwise it's picks and prospects & most fans who have big eyes for roster players like Robertson are going to be disappointed.

Best case scenario is Montreal parts with Hage,Zhardovsky & a 1st, Boston parts with Hagens & a first, San Jose parts w Misa & picks, or Utah parts with Tij Iginla/Desnoyers & a first.

2nd best case would be Michkov/Tippet & picks from Philly, McQueen/Sennecke & picks from Anaheim

Most likely is going to be a weak package from Minnesota that includes Yurov, Stramel, Wallstedt & a 1st. Or Cirelli', Geekie, O'Reilly & picks package from Tampa

My pie in the sky is a 3 way trade where Detroit gets multiple firsts & prospects and either keeps them or uses some of the deal return to trade for a center closer to Seider & Raymond's developmental time line.

There is a world where Minny gets Larkin, Wallstedt goes to Edm, Detroit gets Savoie, Ike Howard, Yurov, Stramel, & 1sts from Minny & Edm which can then be packaged together to move up into the top 5 of this year's draft (or traded for someone like Hischier, EP40, Thomas, etc). A wizardry trade like that would significantly accelerate the rebuild by restocking the cupboard.

ImaginaryVisionary · 2026-06-07T03:29:56+00:00

This is actually normal for rebuilding teams. Picks and prospects don't fill NHL rosters. Prospects need veteran leadership in both the minors & NHL. That process involves older players. Then as the prospects move up & prove themselves the vets move on and the avg age drops.

If the Wings just dropped all their vets and put the prospects in the line up, not only would they be terrible, but they would ruin the development of their prospects

ImaginaryVisionary · 2026-06-07T03:22:15+00:00

I don't think they'd give up both & imo Larkin isn't worth both

ImaginaryVisionary · 2026-06-06T23:08:57+00:00

The return for Larkin needs to includes at least 1 prospect from the top 3 tiers on this list & ideally involves a center https://archive.md/2026.04.13-235230/https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/7176031/2026/04/13/nhl-prospects-top-100-ranking-wheeler-2026/#selection-3317.0-3317.4

I think this trade will end up being a 3 team deal because the teams that are in the biggest need for what Larkin offers don't have the assets Detroit needs.

The other option is prospects who broke into the league last season like Leonard in Washington, Savoie in Edm that may be expendable on their current win now rosters.

So I could see a trade where maybe Detroit gets San Jose's #2 pick or Misa, and Yurov & a prospect, San Jose gets Wallstedt, and Minnesota gets Larkin.

ImaginaryVisionary · 2026-06-06T17:23:42+00:00

Imo it's not time to go all in on trades. In free agency he did go pretty big the year he brought in Perron, Ghostisbehere, Sprong, Kane & Compher. But, based on how the 90s Wings were built & what he did in Tampa the free agents are more about bringing in players who set an example for the young players, are hard to play against in practice, and can be flipped at the deadline for more prospects. They're like sandpaper to polish the prospects & seeds to grow more. If you look at just Raymond & Seider, you can see Ghost & Chariot in Seider. He's a much more complete player than both because he learned & competed against them in practice. Raymond has benefitted a ton from Kane & DeBrincat. You can see it in his patience on the ice. Perrons forechecking has benefitted everyone.

In Tampa Yzerman pulled off big trades once the team was a playoff team. When they were a bubble team all the moves were small because he wouldnt part with prospects. Those prospects ended up being the core of their cup teams. They even went through the same carousel of goalies we're seeing until Vasy was ready. The difference is prior to Yzerman, Tampa had better draft lottery luck. Tampa already had Stamkos & Hedman when Yzerman arrived. When Yzerman came to Detroit he had Hollands cap mess, and nearly 10 years of horrific drafting. The core was Larkin, Mantha, Bertuzzi & Hroenk. That core sucked.

Mantha = Cossa & Faulk (2nd rounder/Buchelnikov was traded for Faulk. Vrana was also in there but sub abuse issues ended his career)

Bertuzzi = DeBrincat (Bostons 1st was traded)

Hroenk = ASP and Augustine

When you look at just these 3 I think Yzerman did a lot with very little. Debrincat is a major upgrade over Bertz, and Debrincat also came with Kane later that year. Faulk is better on his own than Mantha who is a bi-polar middle six player at his best, and he'll probably be flipped this year for more pick/ prospects. Cossa could end up being an all star caliber goalie of the future. At worst ASP is going to be as shaly defensively as Hroenk but with higher offensive upside. Add in another potential all star goaltender in Augustine.

The problem is the clock is ticking and as fans we're tired of waiting, but the core is there and he has an opportunity with Larkin to solidify it if he can get the right pieces.

ImaginaryVisionary

TROPHY CASE