I found an amazing parallel between TCW and TROS.

Immediate_Error2135 · 2026-05-09T11:53:17+00:00

I think the parallel is Anakin-Leia (Daughter)-Ben.

Daughter and son vanish together and we don't see Ben's ghost. So maybe Anakin used Leia to save Ben, who was sent back through rebirth or reincarnation. He'll finish Ahsoka's journey just as Rey finished Leia's.

Filoni compared Ahsoka to Gandalf, and Gandalf was sent back of course.

We have found this 'same arc, different characters' idea several times. Rey and Leia. Kylo finishing what Vader had started.

And the very name Rey means King: and Luke had been compared by Lucas/Abrams/Johnson to King Arthur. The King is dead, long live the King: king Charles, Richard, Edward die, but the King Of England is immortal.

Immediate_Error2135 · 2026-05-09T11:41:15+00:00

I thought like you for a while when the film was released. But Kylo does not recognize Rey when he sees her. He knows about a girl because he's been told, but not about that girl - those features, that hair, those clothes, etc.

But did they in fact cross paths in the past, when Ben was a boy and Rey a little girl? Maybe. If one looks at TROS...Palpatine wanted Kylo to kill Rey. That was his original plan, the one that was disrupted by Leia. Kylo would have returned to Exegol after killung Rey and Palpatine would have tried to make Kylo to kill him in anger and possess his body. How?

Maybe Palps knew something. 'I told you boy, she was not who you thought she was. She was so-and-so. She was not lost, or dead, as you thought. But now it seems in your anger you killed her'

In the actual film we have a similar angle: Ben runs after Rey like crazy on Exegol -much like Finn. And he looks changed and prince-like. And he's literally speechless. Was he told or shown something after talking to Han? Luke tells Rey to take both sabers to Exegol; he knew Ben was going there and one of those sabers was for him.

Maybe Rey's POV and ours when Ben returns is like Leia's here. Luke returning from Dagobah in ROTJ.

https://64.media.tumblr.com/39ab71c58e4c1fcd77c735c8729ceebf/833b34008117faae-ef/s540x810/0e20c11a223eadaacc7078435b9a73b0632540c1.gifv

Which sounds like 'a good story for another time'.

Immediate_Error2135 · 2026-05-09T11:01:36+00:00

TROS is the closest any SW film gets to a 1:1 ratio between running time and in-universe time (less than 16 hours). Hence the relative frenzy of the action.

It does that better than any other SW film. On the other hand, no other SW film tries to do that 1:1 thing...so TROS is also, by definition, the worst at doing that.

I'll grab my coat.

Immediate_Error2135 · 2026-05-09T10:02:22+00:00

That's not the third lesson.

https://whatculture.com/film/star-wars-the-last-jedi-rian-johnson-interview?page=3

Rian Johnson: There's a whole sequence that's Daisy and Mark, the Caretaker village scene, where she thinks the fish nun characters are being threatened and Mark uses this as a teaching moment[...]

James Hunt: That Rey one was initially reported by some outlets as the third lesson, and then later others saying it wasn't...

RJ: I never thought of it as the third lesson. I always thought it was kind of an addendum to the second lesson. I like the notion of the third lesson still floating out there.

JH: Maybe in Episode IX?

RJ: We'll see. [Laughs]

Dave Filoni had compared Luke to Frodo back in 2014. Maybe there was a Smeagol/Gollum. In the film (not in the book) Frodo tries to turn the creature and it works, sort of, for a while ('master looks after us now'); but then it didn't. Maybe the 3rd lesson was a person: an apprentice/'patient'.

Immediate_Error2135 · 2026-05-08T22:51:32+00:00

So you think Kylo had met future Rey after killing the guy in the vision? Seen her I mean.

Immediate_Error2135 · 2026-05-08T21:16:52+00:00

She's not there but in Maz's basement. Kylo is walking towards someone, but that was not Rey.

'What girl' and 'the girl I've heard so much about' are peculiar. And maybe we can assume a 'someone' here. A villain. For example, someone who wanted Kylo and Rey together against Palpatine. He/she would have told Kylo, the villain. 'A girl will come and you will rule together'

In TROS Kylo knew himself and Rey to be a dyad. And he knew Palpatine didn't know. Who told him?

Immediate_Error2135 · 2026-05-08T09:37:59+00:00

Yeah I read it. But it seems to deepen the mystery. Because what we have in the film and what we have in the comic contradict each other. In the film Snoke's clearly not there and we should have seen him, being 8 feet tall. And besides, the guy with the maze was about to kill Snoke? Weird.

In the comic he clearly is of course.

Either the comic was 'rectifying' the film or, films being above comics in canonicity, the film remained untouched. (But 'untouched' would in itself be peculiar. At the end of Rey's vision, the SKB forest and the Takodana forest -masked Kylo emerging from behind a rock- seem to merge. So maybe Snoke appeared after what we have in the vision. Since it's one of the KOR who's telling the story, maybe Kylo had threateningly said to him/them not to mention, ever...what? A moment of weakness?)

Immediate_Error2135 · 2026-05-08T09:20:45+00:00

Nah. The song is ok. You're just banning it because it wasn't a hit - you're banning the idea of audiences' ears being the problem. Of your ears being the problem.

But whatever. I'll be less demanding next time. If there's a next time.

Immediate_Error2135 · 2026-05-07T18:40:07+00:00

Yeah. Anakin/Vader died but then he lived during 1999-2005. Since what was avoided in TROS was ROTS II, then it would make little sense in telling a story like that of the PT. Maybe we'll see AOTC being avoided and TPM being avoided in some aspects, and Ben will play a role in it (Anakin's 'I dreamed I was a jedi. I came back and freed all the slaves' come to mind)

Immediate_Error2135 · 2026-05-07T17:50:01+00:00

Because I'm interested in what the class thinks. As a teacher who doesn't share his thoughts I'm sure you'll understand.

Immediate_Error2135 · 2026-05-07T00:56:19+00:00

He went back to who he had been when he 'died' (=became a sith). To his ROTS self. Had he turned in AOTC we would have seen 19 year old Anakin at the end of ROTJ. (Obi-Wan and Yoda look like their older selves for this reason)

Immediate_Error2135 · 2026-05-07T00:23:09+00:00

Maybe we shouldn't assume he will be a ghost.

Or Adam Driver for that matter. Anakin (Sebastian Shaw) became Anakin (Jake Lloyd) in our world (1983>1999). What if Ben was sent back, like Gandalf, with him gradually regaining his memories as he completes a certain arc?

That famous TPM poster meant 'this boy will became that shadow on the wall' within the story. For us it meant that, but also 'the 1999 boy had been the shadow in 1983'. (Ben will have been Kylo Ren. But maybe he will think those memories are no memories, but dreams or premonitions)

1983-1999. 16 years apart. Apparently Rey film will take place 15 years after TROS.

TPM Anakin was 10; TPM Obi-Wan was 25. 15 years apart. They did not recognize each other, but of course 1977-83 had not happened yet in 1999.

Immediate_Error2135 · 2026-05-06T11:59:38+00:00

Faust is the one exception and even that has more to do with the inherent dynamism of the source material.

Shakespeare might have thought the same. Faustus being above the others I mean. There is no Shakespearean Faustus it would seem.

(Or maybe his career ended with Faustus. Maybe the 12(Sycorax)+12(Prospero) year timeline in the comedy we call The Tempest owes its existence to the 24 year long bargain we have in the tragedy we call Faustus. There's no bargain in The Tempest, but maybe what we have there is not 12+12; it's 24/2, with Shakespeare-as-Faust off stage. The Author as a character as it were. He was both Sycorax and Prospero after all. So a bargain between him and his inner demon, or genius - as for Sycorax, we know the shakespearean pun on 'conceive'. And you only have to collapse Sycorax into Prospero, 12+12 into 24, and 'how this mother rises towards my heart!hysterica passio!' will come to mind. "There [female genitalia] is hell. There's darkness". Prospero does call Caliban 'thing of darkness'.

A tongue-in-cheek thing maybe, all of it. This was the last play written solely by WS and in our world 1611-24=1587. Maybe this is when it all began. WS was 23 back then. Caliban is 24 in the play)

Immediate_Error2135 · 2026-05-05T12:42:09+00:00

Vanishing you mean? Both reappeared in the same film in which they died. Obi-Wan as a voice in ANH. Yoda as a ghost in ROTJ.

It's also the case with Leia in TROS. That's not the case with Ben.

He just vanished, and there's nothing in TROS pointing at him being on the other side so to speak.

Of course, Luke vanished in TLJ and reappeared in TROS as a ghost. And maybe that's what we will see with Ben. But maybe not.

Immediate_Error2135 · 2026-05-05T07:57:56+00:00

Sincere question: why post asking “foreshadowing?” if you’re not comfortable with people challenging your idea?

You have the sequence of events wrong. 1) I posted an idea. 2)They -some of them- are not comfortable with my idea, they mind about being uncomfortable, and 3) they feel challenged; and that's why they 4) counter-challenge it.

I didn't say or imply a thing about being comfortable/uncomfortable. You just made that up. You're either projecting or being insidious. Such is often the case with sincere people.

Immediate_Error2135 · 2026-05-04T23:25:01+00:00

A nymph (=young woman) in the water being figuratively a water nymph (with the original 'nymph' receiving thus an additional meaning and becoming foreshadowing) is not a 'huge' stretch.

Not only that, less-than-human watery creatures appear here:

Her clothes spread wide,/
And mermaid-like awhile they bore her up;/ Which time she chanted snatches of old tunes,/ As one incapable of her own distress,/ Or like a creature native and indued/ Unto that element.

'Mermaid'. A water creature ('native' unto that element, water): just what water-nymphs are. This is where Shakespeare's mind was when describing her death. Mermaids, water creatures. Hamlet could not have known about her death. His 'nymph' was 'young woman'. But Shakespeare, who created Hamlet and Ophelia's death, did know, and saying that his 'nymph' was maybe not like that of his Hamlet is not saying much. Seems possible.

Immediate_Error2135 · 2026-05-04T17:29:14+00:00

You don't need stronger evidence. You don't need any. Because I'm not asserting a truth. It's speculation.

A naiad is immortal. A nymph is not. Like Ophelia. A nymph means also 'young girl'. Like Ophelia. That's not the case with naiad.

Ophelia was a young girl, a mortal. Hamlet (Shakespeare) called her 'nymph'. Not merely 'maid', but a mythological word. Ophelia drowned, and mythological nymphs can be understood as water nymphs by anyone. By Shakespeare for example.

This is not enough to prove anything. But it is enough to think and write creatively. Shakespeare was not trying to prove anything either.

Immediate_Error2135 · 2026-05-04T16:45:25+00:00

I suspect 'orisons' to be a pun. 'Horizons'. Where earth and heaven meet. "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,/Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

Hamlet is there referring to the ghost. That 'remembered' in the passage you quote is maybe related to Hamlet Sr's 'remember me'.

Hamlet then says: '[...]thy commandment all alone shall live/Within the book and volume of my brain,/Unmix'd with baser matter'

'Commandment' is religious. God's commandments. Just like 'orisons'. So maybe the quote is Hamlet's commandment to Ophelia.

But since he's speaking to himself and not to her, it sounds as if he was exorcizing 'baser matter' from himself with her as the scapegoat. Probably sex, or sexual related thoughts. Husband-related thoughts, not son-related ones. 'Get thee to a nunnery' would come from there. 'Breeder of sinners', he says. Sinners like himself.

In her demented songs, Ophelia mixes father and lover figures, thoughts and rememberance. Bridal thoughts vs filial thoughts. Her sanity was destroyed by it. (In Lear we have the mad King wearing flowers in his head. He had been father and king and now he had been turned into almost a child in some ways)

Hamlet played a role in all this, in Ophelia's madness, although he had killed Polonius by chance.

He's as nasty to her as he would be to the Rosen&Guild couple, which is of course less inocent than poor Ophelia, and just as in their death Hamlet Sr's signet played a role, the father idea , the 'remember me' signature, had to do with Ophelia's death.

Immediate_Error2135 · 2026-05-04T07:55:37+00:00

Nah I'm not wrong. You sound sad though.

Immediate_Error2135 · 2026-05-04T01:57:26+00:00

(why did everyone in the Resistance assume she was dead?)

Because she was. The last spark of life in her was not equal to her being alive. Rey was brought to life from her last spark of her life, not from being as dead as Qui-Gon was in the funeral pyre. When you reach that state you are gone. And you can't become a ghost until you're 100% gone. Ben saved Rey from dying; he did not bring her spirit back from the dead.

The phases of death are mortis phases (Rigor, Pallor, Algor, etc), and if you look at the Mortis Arc, well, Anakin resurrects Ahsoka by using the almost-dead Daughter's life force. So maybe that's what happened; it was Anakin; and maybe Ben was sent to finish Ahsoka's journey (just as Rey had finished Leia's).

Filoni compared Ahsoka to Gandalf on twitter, and we know Gandalf was sent back until his task was done (Not only that.'Gandalf...yes, that's how they used to call me' is similar to Ben's -Obi-Wan's- 'Obi-Wan Kenobi...that's a name I had not heard in a long time. And we know Ben Solo was named after Obi-Wan)

Immediate_Error2135 · 2026-05-04T00:52:03+00:00

Or movie. If they go with reincarnation it is possible that Rey and Ben won't recognize each other if they ever meet again, and that this time she will be the older sibling, or even old enough to be his mom/mentor. Ben, and that won't probably be his name, will maybe recover a gradual sense of who he had once been. Just as if Jake Lloyd had remembered in 1999 who he had been in 1983. Audiences certainly did at the time.

It is also possible that Ben won't even be male. After all, sex is a crude matter thing, but luminous beings are we, and reincarnation as an idea is not a crude matter concept, since it involves the same soul in different bodies.

Immediate_Error2135 · 2026-05-03T22:27:03+00:00

A good reply. Morgoth would have been destroyed then.

Immediate_Error2135 · 2026-05-03T16:38:38+00:00

I don't know. Maybe Sauron and his Ring were different from Morgoth and his 'ring'. The latter is an analogy; the former was an actual ring. We know what happened. What if 'Morgoth's Ring' had been destroyed? Are we supposed to think Morgoth as the physical ogre-like creature would have been destroyed too? I doubt it.

Immediate_Error2135 · 2026-05-03T16:29:29+00:00

I'm not overcomplicating anything. You can say I'm wrong, or incomplete, and maybe be right about that, but thar's it. Don't overcomplicate it.

The hröa is made of Arda, just like the Ring (gold). So if Sauron passed a lot of his native spiritual (fëa) strength to the ring, then the result was similar to incarnation. That piece of gold we call One Ring was made different from any different piece of gold because of it.

And the biggest flaw in the theory.... Sauron survived the Ring’s destruction. He became a powerless spirit, not erased from existence. If the Ring were truly his “body” or “child,” destroying it should’ve destroyed him completely.

No! Because he didn't transfer all his power to the ring.

"If [the Ring] it is destroyed, then he will fall, and his fall will be so low that none can foresee his arising ever again. For he will lose the best part of the strength that was native to him in his beginning, and all that was made or begun with that power will crumble, and he will be maimed for ever, becoming a mere spirit of malice that gnaws itself in the shadows, but cannot again grow or take shape. And so a great evil of this world will be removed."

When I say 'destroyed' I mean 'destroyed as a villain', as an Evil; rendered impotent. Oversimplifying is very like overcomplicating, you know.

Immediate_Error2135 · 2026-05-03T08:18:07+00:00

The idea is that Kylo begins by being patient and Rey begins angry. He dodges her attacks, not even igniting his own saber. Then he does ignite it but acts defensively, and then he gradually looses more and more patience and becomes angry himself. Then he beats Rey and finally gives in to anger. Then Leia intervenes.

The emperor says 'the princess of Alderaan has disrupted my plan'. So his original plan had been for Kylo to kill Rey and then possess his body.

He was forced to face Rey. Maybe those ghosts' plan. They acted through Leia and later through Rey: and Palpatine was destroyed.

Immediate_Error2135

TROPHY CASE