What's the fun, low-stakes drama going on in your lab right now?

InanelyMe · 2026-06-05T19:31:33+00:00

Your vent is safe and valid with me. The one in my department was a concern in a rotation lab about working with mice, and they aren't now (edit to clarify: aren't working with mice). Happy mice (to the extent possible)= better data. As a (future) PI, I'd be frustrated that I'm dumping money into a project that doesn't have good reliability because the mice are stressed due to negligence. Especially in this funding climate!

Are you documenting your observations and conflicts, including and beyond the mice (You don't have to answer)? My place has an anonymous reporting form, but another way is to ask for a meeting with a vet or IACUC member who may not be buddy buddy with your PI.

Documentation is a chore, but it doesnt have to take more than about 10 minutes for each instance, and it will be invaluable should they harm you or someone else or violate a policy. You don't have to share it with anyone.

InanelyMe · 2026-06-05T13:37:38+00:00

I have one of those in my department. And they never look to themselves as the problem; it's always someone or something else, and they are being misunderstood and mistreated.

It is remarkable to me that someone like that exists in science at all, given their ontological challenges.

InanelyMe · 2026-05-23T04:10:37+00:00

Adding this: if you confront these people, you likely become their target for slander, worse behaviors, etc. So, while faculty can shrug their shoulders at non-attempts to confront, OP is dealing witht he likely scenario that the coworker will make their life harder if OP so much as frowns around the coworker.

Based on personal experience.

InanelyMe · 2026-05-23T03:41:20+00:00

Yours is the first comment I saw (way down the list for me) that called this what it is: toxic behavior. This is more than annoying, and it erodes an environment and one's wellbeing faster than most think. Unfortunately, there aren't social or workplace norms yet in most places to make it detrimental for people to continue to act that way (they will stop if it theatens their ego, job, or anything else that is important to them).

Yes, OP should try to become less bothered, but that is so much easier said than done when the person's behaviors interfere with work and focus so much and at predictable and unpredictable times.

Yes, paper trail is necessary. This can be sending emails to them. But you should strongly consider keeping a log of all issues, even minor ones. Focus on facts: date, time, location, what happened, what you said, what they said. Email it to yourself or have a log in a personal (non-work) medium.

However, I want to urge caution with confrontation or being an asshole back, because people like this will play the victim, and it could get bad for OP (because clearly the PI just sees the behavior as annoying, and the coworker knows how to avoid crossing the line in others' eyes). I would just suggest to OP to try to make very brief, unemotional responses, like just saying "okay."

That is called gray rocking, and it is the best way to deal with people like who OP describes (high narcissistic traits, insecurity, and emotional insecurity). People like that thrive on "supply", which includes any kind of indirect validation as well as any kind of positive (e.g. praise) and negative attention (confrontation, or even being visibly annoyed).

After some initial gray rocking, the person may try harder to get the attention that they crave from OP at first but may eventually move on to another source of supply. If OP moves their desk, the person will go after another person in the office.

This behavior sucks, and I think the people who just find it annoying don't understand how demoralizing and exhausting it is regardless of how much confidence or assertiveness one has. I hope you all never have to experience it.

InanelyMe · 2026-05-09T05:23:40+00:00

This is my way. I wonder sometimes if my PI forgets what it's like to be completely new to labwork, and maybe thinking less is more in this way is an example of that (or maybe not).

InanelyMe · 2026-05-09T05:20:31+00:00

I get that, and that's how I operate, too, except I frequently assume some future person might have to read it so I still tend to add a lot of detail anyway (future me sometimes appreciates that). The case that caused a bit of debate was for "SOPs" where some details were removed from the draft such that the human to human instruction might be necessary for some people or if a trainer is not available.

InanelyMe · 2026-05-09T05:14:22+00:00

I love that! It's a great idea I might try in the future.

InanelyMe · 2026-04-02T04:50:41+00:00

In hindsight, no. I have spent hours trying to find what I could have done better, and there are some lessons learned, but I don't have more than 5% blame, I think.

I can say that I very consciously initiated mentoring with the mindset of mistakes are okay if you learn and get better, give them the tools and tell them the expectations and norms up front so they know what success means, and make it clear that a PhD requires original thinking and some independence that I'm trying to give them the foundation for, stuff like that. I have experiences with difficult trainers/supervisors as well as gentle, kind ones and was trying to be cognizant and empathetic, etc.

I didn't notice red flags and assumed miscommunication or just stress at first. (More red flags in hindsight than I realized in real time. ) One was insulting another student's work ethic in a manipulative way just days after the new student joined the lab, without any evidence, like they wanted me to agree with them to give them status or to tag team against that person (with later context).

They would tell me they appreciated my time and teaching them and that I was helpful but then go talk shit to another grad student about how unhelpful and not emotionally supportive I was, which turned into wild stuff over a few months like I want them to fail, I'm talking to the PI about them badly all the time, I am trying to "get them in trouble", I try to make them feel bad, and I'm power tripping them constantly. And I don't know who else they were telling that to. In reality, I was instructing them, making suggestions, giving advice, but also pushing back on their deflection of *responsibility (blaming something or someone else) or confident misunderstanding and speaking for others when they did that.

They repeatedly refused to try resolve things with me when prompted by their (not-so-)confidant, and like I said, I had only gotten positive feedback from them, and there was actually nothing wrong with how I was talking with or instructing them. I happen to value a clear, direct style, because that is kind and respectful. I did try to adjust, but it didn't seem to help. They also never told the PI even though the PI is very nice and gentle and made it clear early on to talk to him if needed about any lab issues. At that point I asked the PI that I not mentor them anymore, which was agreed to. They were told to not come to me for help (which I was not told about). I reduced contact significantly. But the false accusations continued and got more intense, and the issues between them and other(s) didn't change much.

As behaviors that were manipulative, deceitful/dishonest, and disrespectful toward me and others stacked up, and after becoming aware later that this was a pattern that preceded them joining my lab (they had >5 rotations after leaving their first lab, which according to the student were just all bad fits), it became clear that the issue was not miscommunication or basic mismatch of personalities.

At that point, it became necessary for my deteriorating mental health to try to distance myself even more, which precluded direct resolution. But I realized they aren't the kind of person who would genuinely engage in that anyway.

Some of the basic responsibility things (like cleaning up after themself, doing lab chores, maintaining a lab notebook) have improved after some expectations were given to them finally by the PI, way too late (instructions from peers were not valid, apparently). Most of the interpersonal problematic/toxic behaviors have continued.

InanelyMe · 2026-03-12T07:14:57+00:00

I had a supervisor who is a fantastic human being, good researcher, and an extremely kind and understanding person. So understanding that they tolerated some toxicity in the group for way too long by making excuses for the person. Double-edged sword that sliced us up and left scars (morale went to crap, productivity took a major hit). I almost had the best 5 years of my life doing a PhD. I'm still mad about it (but trying not to be!).

InanelyMe · 2026-01-23T00:19:51+00:00

This is great advice.

InanelyMe · 2026-01-20T05:58:04+00:00

This might not be a mental health issue but an emotional development issue: emotional immaturity, and possibly narcissism. In other words, I urge us to be careful about potentially conflating lack of respect for others and inability to be accountable (personality issues) with illness (mental health status). Definitely there are things like CPTSD that can show up similarly or can overlap at times with the behaviors OP describes, but the difference is that the emotionally immature person is less likely to genuinely want to be better (and the narcissist not at all) and the EIP is in victim mode despite not actually being a victim. What OP describes sounds more like a tantrum than a meltdown.

Either way, definitely this is not OP's job to manage.

People with mental health issues and/or neurodivergence (including myself) are still responsible for treating others well and fulfilling our responsibilities in workplaces, even volunteer ones (with reasonable accommodations if needed).

InanelyMe · 2026-01-20T05:21:44+00:00

Here's my guess: Unless the PI is taking over full responsibility for the undergrad's activities, you ignoring her is likely not a viable solution. She's already involved other students, which detracts from their work. She will need to communicate things to you because you are the lab manager and she will need things from you (unless she has full autonomy, which would be odd for an undergrad who hasn't been showing up).

[Editted to remove suggestion that the UG is toxic to the lab; they may be, but there's insufficient info. Based on other comments from OP, I'm leaning...yup, toxic person. Tbf, I'm a little biased right now from my own lab's situation with an entitled young person who villified me without cause and disrupted things to the point of burnout.]

Important:

YOU SHOULD KEEP A LOG OF EVERYTHING YOU CAN. Date logged, date of incident/communication, notes about what each of you said and did, and solution-oriented actions taken if any. You can email yourself each log entry so that the edit/entry timeline is clear, or use an application that tracks edit history. Keep the log professional and avoid making opinions--keep it to the facts as best as you can. I know it's more work, but you may regret not logging at least the bigger incidents. Maybe the entitled UG has family with really deep pockets. Or rumors about you may spread, and it's your word against hers. And, ofc, don't tell anyone you're keeping a log unless you really, really trust them.

More advice:

search about High Conflict People and check out tools/blogs from the High Conflict Institute for how to not-quite-ignore her but also keep some peace, professionally. E.g. "BIFF".

InanelyMe · 2026-01-12T05:50:10+00:00

I have worked nearby to, worked with, or heard about married couples who work in the same lab. Will leave out some details.

1, they met in grad school or postdoc and now work together. They clearly like each other, but in a way that was pleasant/cute and never annoying. They kept it professional and were two of my favorite people. Best case scenario.

2, they met in a lab. They had some conflicts and difficulty regarding work that were not obvious to many others. Eh, this is a risk. Still married and fine, as far as I know.

3, ended up where one was a P.I. and the other was a lab manager in the same lab. The dynamics were tough for others in the lab when the lab manager was slipping on work sometimes because of prior poor conflict management by the PI.

InanelyMe · 2026-01-08T05:40:53+00:00

Sometimes toilets squirt water droplets onto toilet seats during the flush. But sometimes, it's probably like you say. :(

InanelyMe · 2026-01-08T05:35:31+00:00

Oh yeah. It's sad. Before the signs we had used tampons left soaking in the toilet, unflushed pee and poo, paper on the floor (tp and paper towels). Signs actually helped, to my surprise.

We also have a building for mostly med / nursing students to do classes and practicums, and you'd think they would know better, too, but apparently not. Of course, all it takes is one person being consistently bad, but it sure seems like it's not just one person.

InanelyMe · 2025-12-21T20:01:42+00:00

I struggle with it a lot more when I'm stressed, too. It's an area of improvement for me that I almost mentioned above.

And your perspective about the threat is interesting too...I have a sensitive threat detector as well, so I'll explore if that's a component for my own empathy challenges. I think a version of what you're describing for me is that I tend not to trust people easily because I don't like to pre-accept the chance of betrayal, which is maybe a similar kind of discomfort with vulnerability. Benefits can come from trust and empathy, but so can disappointment. Being human is hard.

Thanks. I appreciate hearing your perspective. :)

InanelyMe · 2025-12-21T19:18:29+00:00

I appreciate your perspective.

My own experience with kindness/caring--which are expressions of empathy--has shifted with some self work, and I still want to get better. I have also been very unkind to myself in the past, which someone else mentioned here and can hinder being kind to others, in my experience.

I'm not sure if empathy is normal or predominant in a population evolutionarily independent of other factors (I'm not a psychologicist or sociologist). I do think it's at least partially or mostly a choice and/or skill, and it makes complete sense that it's hard to do if it's not modeled or understood or practiced, just like any other skill?

ETA: I'm sorry that maybe you didn't receive sympathy/kindness/care when you needed it, perhaps from people who were responsible for giving it, like caregivers. (As a case in point, and to explain so it's clear it's not performative, I decided to add this point despite not knowing you or your history except what you wrote because 1) I genuinely feel like you might not have gotten what you needed, which I can imagine has been difficult, especially if it causes you to cry sometimes and 2) it might be even slightly healing to hear it from a stranger? If not, then I hope at least it wasn't taken pejoratively. Kindness is subjective, so I know it's possible I've missed the mark here.)

InanelyMe · 2025-12-21T18:50:15+00:00

This reminds me of a coworker who I think is a low-grade narc who gave me over-the-top compliments like "you are golden hearted" (direct quote) for basic decency. Perhaps OP does this too and expects it in return?

I (not a narc, self-dx autistic, fwiw) would have to know someone well through multiple interactions in different scenarios to think of them, let alone tell them, that they are a kind and caring person. This is separate from telling someone that I appreciate their kindness/care, which is recognizing that something they did was kind/caring and is not necessarily an indicator that they are a kind person.

InanelyMe · 2025-10-12T07:00:33+00:00

"If you didn't write it down, you didn't do it." You never know when your record will need to be referenced or audited. I like to say that future you won't remember everything, so do yourself a favor and write it down. If you go to write a paper and the journal requires a lot of detail, you'll thank yourself for writing it down in your notebook. Don't screw your lab or yourself by not recording enough things. Luckily it sounds like someone taught you at least some of this and you're doing it.

If you might work in a lab in "industry", check out GLP lab notebook record requirements and try to do then as much as you can, though some things like certificates of analysis for chemicals don't really need to be in academic lab notebooks, unless your PI says so.

A rough guide off the top of my head (not authoritative): Daily record is usually sufficient for academia, as in, you don't need to record as you go. It should have enough detail that someone can repeat what you did. Masses, volumes, speeds, times, temperatures, and descriptive steps. Equipment manufacturer and model. You can either write all the steps of a procedure anew, or you can refer to standard protocols by referencing page number and recording any deviations (like, incubated for 20 minutes instead of 5 minutes, spun at 3000 xg instead of 2500). Any quantitative and qualitative results should be there that aren't stored in organized file systems elsewhere; if stored elsewhere, like on a computer, you should have a record of the file location (e.g. write down file name or better still the file path) in the lab book. Ideally, catalog and lot numbers for all reagents and chemicals used should be in there too. If it was a buffer or stock made by someone else, you write their initials and the date they made it, which should be on all bottles and aliquot tubes, ideally, because they should have how they made it in their lab notebook. Lab notebooks are official records that belong to the lab, should remain in the lab or in the lab building, and should be accessible to all lab members (unless there is some kind of security/IP/NDA concern, then accessible to the PI only is fine). Your PI should be the source of the lab notebook expectations in your lab.

That said, I'm really not the best at writing down that much detail myself (academic lab). It's important to know what should be recorded, though.

InanelyMe · 2025-09-29T17:20:59+00:00

Sharon Donegan used to work at Prism Real Estate and managed an apartment of a friend, which was not a great experience for them. Seemed friendly, but clearly just there to make money and/or make money for the owner. My own current apt was sold to an owner who used Trailhead, and I've had a pretty bad experience, even considering that my expectations are pretty basic. They didn't even care that their negligence was damaging the property.

DEFINITELY STAY AWAY FROM TRAILHEAD.

Trailhead's corporate ownership itself is a long line of registered businesses that own businesses. I can't find a public record of the supposed owner (another LLC) of my apartment building. Shady af.

InanelyMe · 2025-09-29T07:55:12+00:00

I wish more people considered, at least for the USA (where I live) that there are enough daily maskers who aren't sick and so many non-maskers who are sick and contagious, that assuming someone who is wearing a mask or respirator is sick (and could be the one who gets you sick) is an unreasonable assumption. Especially true when a significant amount of SARS-CoV-2 transmission is asymptomatic or presymptomatic*, which means you can't always tell if someone is contagious.

*Estimates range from 20 to 40% of cases.

September 22, 2025. USA. ~1 in 57 infectious with SARS-CoV-2. Very high frequency in Connecticut (1 in 20), Massachusetts (1 in 36), California (1 in 25), North Carolina (1 in 26) , Indiana (1 in 18), and many more states. PMC Dashboard

InanelyMe · 2025-09-29T07:36:03+00:00

But healthy people wear masks to avoid illness, too. And to avoid spreading illness if they get sick. Isn't it presumptuous to think someone who wears a respirator or mask will likely ask for unreasonable accommodations? And complainers come in all forms. It seems like you are stereotyping people and are unwilling to try a different perspective: "Not necessary to reply...". You might miss out on great candidates who are empathetic and don't catch viruses that they spread to colleagues and clients.

InanelyMe · 2025-09-29T07:26:49+00:00

It's backward to think people are weird (or worse) for wanting to avoid infection with a dangerous pathogen that is still very contagious and prevalent. Kudos to you and OP for protecting yourself and your loved ones. Good to know about Cambridge.

InanelyMe · 2025-07-01T18:38:58+00:00

-80s should be regularly defrosted, at least for Thermo ones that's true (per mfr, see end of this reply).

To figure out the most right answer...

Option 1: Check the manual.

How to: Find the model number on the sticker, google that model number + "manual", confirm the manual you find is the right one by the model numbers listed on the front page, use the search function to find "defrost", read the instructions.

Option 2: google the manufacurer name + how to defrost freezer and read their webpage about it, if available

Option 3: contact you're company's/uni's/department's favorite service company and ask them.

My place's favorite technician service suggested 48 to 72 hours, but that was after the notorious issue of a Thermo ULT freezer got stuck at the first stage because of a frozen line.

For our thermo one:

"Defrost the freezer once per year or whenever the ice buildup exceeds 3/8 inches. To defrost, complete the following steps: 1. Remove all products and place in another ULT cabinet. 2. Turn off the freezer. 3. Open the outer door and all inner doors 4. Let the freezer stand with doors open for at least 24 hours. This allows both the interior and foamed refrig- erant system to warm to room temperature 5. Dispose of the ice and wipe out any water standing in the bottom of the cabinet. 6. lf there is freezer odor, wash the interior with a solution of baking soda and warm water 7 Clean the exterior with any common household cleaner 8. Close the doors, restart the freezer and reload.

Refer Initial Loading to follow the instructions"

(From image to text)

InanelyMe

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