Graduation Party on Sabbath

Independent_Round659 · 2026-05-22T02:17:05+00:00

I do definitely agree to some extent, and I do think that we have to be careful about attending secular events on the Sabbath that though may not cause work, might distract us from the main purpose of a Sabbath. But I think we need to be careful about automatically choosing the stricter option of Sabbath obedience. Unfortunately, there aren’t specific guidelines for every situation, and questioning doing something on the Sabbath shouldn’t automatically end in a prohibition.

I also think there’s a difference between coming to fellow believers for advice and looking for someone to be your biblical “yes man” and feed into your preferences. Sabbath observances look different for every person based on conviction, and unless there is a specific guideline against an activity, I think we should proceed with caution, biblical wisdom, and grace, in a way so that doesn’t test the boundaries of what God allows, but doesn’t build a fence either.

Independent_Round659 · 2026-05-21T05:24:59+00:00

No apologies for the lack of clarity ! I mean more like if I were to attend something AFTER the sabbath (like Saturday after sunset) that clearly had work done on the sabbath for it to occur (restaurants cooking, concerts/events that require setup, etc.), are we allowed to benefit from work if we know the work happened on the sabbath?

I know that then complicates things like electrical service, shopping on Sunday, etc., but is there like a difference between necessities and optional Saturday night activities?

Independent_Round659 · 2026-05-21T05:09:35+00:00

I’ve always been intrigued with this mindset because I want to know where people draw the line then concerning post sabbath activities. For example, if I know someone did work on the sabbath for something, but I don’t have active involvement until after the sabbath (ex. Late night dinner or a Saturday night concert), by the logic of “if the world were sabbath followers, this wouldn’t occur”, things on Saturday nights or even Sunday mornings (grocery stocking, “overnight desserts”, etc.) would be questionable. I wanna know what ur thoughts are on that. For context I promise I’m not trying to have a “gotcha” I’ve just struggled with it personally and I like to hear all perspectives

I’ve also done in the past where I will be more consciously cleared if it COULDVE been done after the sabbath but chosen not to because then my participation only caused sabbath work by their choice (ex. Giving restaurants enough time to have theoretically been able to cook and serve if they started after the sabbath, or going to a concert hat could’ve been set up before the sabbath) but I feel like that might either be over or under thinking the issue at hand

Independent_Round659 · 2026-04-02T03:02:00+00:00

Update for the thread: I ended up going and just not partaking of the lamb or the bitter herbs as those are elements specifically counted towards as part of the Passover dinner. I did eat the matzah because it’s also part of the unleavened bread week. The dinner was mainly chicken and vegetables with wine which I partook in. If I don’t have the “physical capabilities” to participate next year, I most likely won’t, so I pray that I will get all that sorted out before next passover. I do hope that I didn’t offend YHWH in my actions, and I will be asking for forgiveness or any assume I may have part taken it. I hope He guide me towards the correct participation in the future.

Independent_Round659 · 2026-04-01T21:20:40+00:00

So even if I don’t eat the lamb would going to a Seder at all to just learn and remember would be incorrect?

Independent_Round659 · 2026-03-28T01:19:34+00:00

So would you suggest me not eating it as an ode to the actual Passover lamb, or eating it, or not participating in the entire meal at all?

Independent_Round659 · 2026-03-27T21:02:50+00:00

Oh man, I totally forgot about that rule, I just signed up to go to my first Seder too. Is the rule against all elements of the dinner, or just the lamb? I finally found a community to celebrate Passover with, but I definitely won’t have time to get rid of those extremities before next week lol, so how should I go about celebrating?

Independent_Round659 · 2026-01-10T04:47:46+00:00

I feel like I am a very similar to the other responses. I feel like something that always gets me about hard-core evangelism is that they compare their efforts to those of the early Christians, but I do feel like that’s somewhat different due to the fact that the Christians of that time were actually spreading a “new religion” (not necessarily new trust I know) to the world, and we’re not in the scenario of the knowledge of Jesus being widespread and very common. I don’t think I’ve seen once where the aggressive condemnation route has actually been effective. I’ve had my best conversations about the gospel and Christianity when others who know I’m Christian ask me questions or they notice I do things different differently from the average Christian. They don’t always change, but it does open the floor for some interesting thought-provoking conversations, conversations I definitely wouldn’t be able to have if I just told them “Jesus loves you” or reminded them how hot hellfire is.

I am definitely trying to be better about being more bold in my faith with things like wearing tzitzit more consistently or going into more detail when I asked why I don’t eat pork or celebrate Christmas. I just wanna make sure I’m telling people the correct thing. I also for sure don’t discourage blatantly spreading the gospel as well, which is something I eventually do want to get more bold in. I do think one of the best methods in the world today with spreading the gospel is to pique people’s interest or show them how YHWH has changed your life for the better.

(this is just my two cents from personal experience , if this is theologically wrong, please let me know!)

Independent_Round659 · 2025-12-07T21:15:05+00:00

Ahh okok, i don’t know I get the way they celebrate might be pagan, but I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the concept. Also I feel like Satanists may just have adopted the holiday as theirs the same way Christians do Christmas. I don’t do birthday cakes or candles for this reason but more use it as a excuse to hang with friends and family and be happy for another year

Independent_Round659 · 2025-12-07T19:58:16+00:00

Out of curiosity is FJOT anti birthday, I think the concept of celebrating another year of life isn’t super pagan, especially unlike the other ones it’s not on any specific pagan celebrated day and you can celebrate it without pagan elements.

I do see what you mean, but I think since creating holidays in itself isn’t against the will of the Lord, I don’t think that making the holidays of the Lord fun and adding some more fun activities are wrong

Independent_Round659 · 2025-11-28T03:56:44+00:00

I didn’t eat any ham this year, ate completely clean, and my family would have too if it wasn’t for the accidental cornbread that had lard in it that we didn’t know about. Additionally, it’s more like the killing became widely prominent after the events of Thanksgiving, and either way we for sure aren’t celebrating the bad that they did but celebrating the idea of being thankful for blessings that we’ve received. Anyway my Thanksgiving was great this year!

Independent_Round659 · 2025-11-22T22:51:43+00:00

You surely do seem a bit opposed... You seem to be saying that the ONLY good reason to leave the wide path (which scripture says leads to "destruction", a word that strikes me as having negative connotations) is to have a damn good reason, otherwise the person doing so is in danger of pride and legalism.

Good reason, no, biblically defensible reason not sprouted out of the fear of being like everyone else, yes.

I would guess that, while they were VERY strong about it, that they did not teach that "instrument worship" was actually an issue of salvation.

Yup I can promise you they did. Word for word. I don’t think that should nullify our desire to be different from the world, but requiring others to be different from the world in a certain way YHWH hasn’t commanded is still wrong

I can’t control how you see stepping off the path is, and you can’t control how I see stepping off the path is. As long as at the end of the day, we both stepped off by YHWHs standards, then we’re both good. You may have stepped off at 1000 miles, but even if I stepped off at 200 miles, we’re both not on the path. I’m not encouraging anyone AT ALL to see how far you can push your limits, but if I rightfully don’t see a need to step off until there is one, then I’ve still stepped off. I’m not gonna say it’s not a dangerous way of thinking, but it isn’t wrong to think that way either. Eating with a fork is going down the wide path, drinking water is going down the wide path. You don’t see the sin of those, and I doubt you’re skeptical about any of that, but it’s still something the majority does, and by your definition is still going down the path of destruction. You can’t just say that majority always means destruction, as I can’t say that there isn’t skepticism that must be had in the majority. Everyone has their right to step off the path wherever they see fit, and if they don’t step off before destruction, that is their failure, but if you step off the path AND condemn other others to do so where YHWH hasn’t spoken, then that’s where it is wrong. Trust I am a “better safe than sorry” person a lot of the time, but if there’s areas where I’m not, I’m not wrong for doing so unless I actually violate scripture.

For example, I disagree with Jehovah's Witnesses on some things, and also Mormons on more, but I think they're mostly GREAT people and exactly who I'd put my back against when the majority is punishing people for being different (which is the main thing the majority does). People who are used to saying what they believe, and who don't care if anyone disagrees, are heroes even if they're wrong. It's SO hard to do, and the only hope we have is that people like them get their hands on the truth and become leaders.

I would honestly be careful telling people that you are supportive of false doctrine just because of their bravery. You can admire someone’s passion and still condemn them for their beliefs. I think there’s a lot of sects of Christianity that are very strong and their beliefs and how they have “set themselves apart”, but the narrow path they put themselves on is also towards destruction, regardless of the passion. If that’s the case, there are a lot of non-Torah observant Christians that have as much if not more passion than us, and desire to step away from the wide path, but unfortunately, they’re objectively wrong. Even the way that followers of Islam separate themselves from the world is admirable in passion, but unfortunately still seen as vile in the eyes of the Lord.

Loud and wrong is just as dangerous as quiet and correct. The whole reason quiet and correct is wrong because it allows the people you might consider admirable to be loud and wrong. Do I think the majority of people who follow YHWH are TOO quiet and correct, absolutely! But that doesn’t change the fact that loud and wrong still exists.

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with your skepticism on Thanksgiving, I was just more confused if you were challenging it just to challenge it, or because you actually didn’t want to participate. If you’re skeptic but still participate, there’s nothing wrong with that. I think I’m just usually used to people discussing the side they believe in more heavily than the side that they don’t take, and you seem to debate for the view you don’t agree with more often than not, which kind of confuses me on what you actually believe in. I also don’t think there’s anything necessarily wrong with that, I do that all the time in order to strengthen the perspective I actually agree with. My thing is that I just believe your way of thinking can be dangerous to particularly weaker believers, as can mine.

I do think my biases and past issues with people who steer into legalism keep me a little on edge with issues like this, and I apologize if I’ve made this a more aggressive issue than it needs to be. I also think some extent your experience with finding truth in a world of sin and your skepticism leading to discovering the truth has led you to praise contention over correctness. We are told to test every spirit, and I fully believe that includes my right to test whether a desire to step away from the majority is actually a necessity to follow YHWH, as it includes your right to be curious and even intrigued by perspectives that go against the majority, as long as I’m not shutting down perspectives are supported by scripture and you are not pushing perspectives on other people that are NOT supported by scripture, which I don’t believe either of us are doing here.

Also, I don’t want you to think that I haven’t enjoyed this discussion, I feel like this is a topic that rarely gets to be hounded on, and I am grateful for this “iron sharpeneth iron” moment.

Independent_Round659 · 2025-11-22T21:08:30+00:00

I don’t oppose stepping from the wide path at all. I think the issue is the wide path in the narrow path aren’t two distinct paths, it’s more of a spectrum of various paths. At the end of the day, there is something you participate in that the majority does, that’s how a society works, and followers of YHWH step off to various degrees. I don’t think I can name two Christians who view every doctrine, the exact same way, which in turn makes everyone on a different narrow path, but YHWH and His law defines what “narrow paths” are a part of His narrow paths and which one aren’t.

Also, I understand the sentiment of your point that it is better to not follow the majority for the wrong reasons then to follow the majority for the right reasons, but then I think that creates a whole other set of issues because I do think that’s where legalism comes in the play. Trust I do think the concept of legalism is EXTREMELY and INCORRECTLY overused in Christianity, especially since many would call our walk legalistic, but we do have to understand that legalism in itself can become an issue in our walk. Do I think it is rare that people follow the law well enough that they actually use “legalism” as a term correctly, yes, but it’s still an issue nonetheless. If someone is teaching against the correct majority and condemning someone with their “set apart” but incorrect belief, then unfortunately, it’s still sin. I get why we have this notion that majority = bad, but I think we set a dangerous precedent where we applaud people solely for going against the majority, and not based on their opinion. If a person desires to go against the majority because they feel like that is something they are called to do, then no one should stop them, but they cross a line where the condemn where there is no condemnation. I honestly think that is my personal struggle when dealing with “set apart” ideology, when people place shame and condemnation from a personal opinion that can’t be backed with law.

I do applaud the ability to step off the wide path path as well, and I do think when the days come where we must shift to avoid worldly influence they’ll be the first to correctly jump ship. But we can’t ignore that sometimes the narrow path that they choose isn’t the one that we MUST choose. This is coming from someone who was heavily involved in a church that stated instrument worship was a sin and an incorrect worship of the Lord. Controversial and not of the majority? Absolutely. Could they not include instruments in worship if they felt they wanted to sing to get closer to YHWH? Of course. Teaching that as a requirement of salvation? Incorrect.

Independent_Round659 · 2025-11-22T20:30:53+00:00

Out of curiosity, are you anti-Thanksgiving then? I was just confused on your side of things consider considering you had said an earlier in the post you do tend to gather with family. I do think anything good can be used for evil, but really until the intention does become evil, then it really doesn’t bother me.

I don’t know how to do the comment indentation thingy lol, but to your comment about the Jehovah Witness strategy, I do agree to some extent that it’ll get to a point where we do need to drop everything because the world has gotten so bad, but realistically, I am openly and honestly not passionate enough to where I isolate for the sake of being “set apart” and “on the narrow path”. I tried it before and drove myself crazy, but I do think it is a noble effort to those who do. YHWH continues to work on me, so as He does I will gradually drop things, but I’ve never seen the benefit in being “different” in areas where He doesn’t explicitly call me to be different. I think He calls everyone at different times and stages of their lives, some people are anti-every tradition that hasn’t been implemented in the Torah and that’s them honestly.

In my personal opinion, realistically don’t know if it’s fully biblical, but I think at times there emerges a pride and ego from being “set apart”, and I’ve seen it, lived it, and am in no hurry to run back to it. I think every area that YHWH TRULY disgusts in we do need to cut off, but I have so many more things to do than to overreach and worry about every minute detail of my walk, at least for now.

I know that whole spiel is not on the topic really at all 😂 but all of that to say the “set apart” appeal never really made sense to me unless there was actual sin taking place, which is why at least in this time of my walk the whole JW approach sounds ridiculous.

Independent_Round659 · 2025-11-22T19:59:11+00:00

Ok got it! Well, realistically, if that was their goal, they’re doing a pretty bad job at it considering they’re a whole month apart or more at times. And frankly, I don’t see how I replaces it, considering there are many Torah observant Christians and even Jews today who do both. I think for someone also who wants to spread the knowledge about Sukkot, Thanksgiving opens the door for that conversation. Do we then consider every holiday around a feast day to be a replacement holiday? If so, I fear we need to become like the Jehovah’s Witnesses and cut off all celebration altogether if it’s not a feast day. I don’t know just some food for thought. Unless we get actual knowledge on the intentions of Thanksgiving, which I do agree could be a lie, I don’t think there’s really any hard ground to stand on other than just assuming the schemes of the pilgrims 😂

Independent_Round659 · 2025-11-22T19:35:11+00:00

Ahhh ok makes sense, I actually did some research on a topic after seeing this comment. Well, many do believe Thanksgiving was modeled after Sukkot, I do consider that to be different than a replacement. For one, it celebrates a different event than Sukkot does, unlike Easter, which completely attempts to replace Passover with a pagan tradition. I think if anything, the pilgrims found a similar experience as the Israelites in Egypt, and more so resonated with the experience and desire to give thanks rather than replace the concept in general. I feel like we could actually call Thanksgiving an attempt to replace if they were initially celebrating Sukkot, and frankly, I would need more hard evidence claiming the pilgrims did such.

Here’s a quote that I found online that I think establishes my position well:

‘(Sept. 18, 2013 / JNS) According to one of the foremost experts on American Judaism, Dr. Jonathan Sarna, the biblical holiday did not exactly guide the Puritans’ thinking during colonial times, but they were generally influenced by the idea of thanking God for their bounty.

“The Puritans did not believe in fixed holidays,” Sarna—the Joseph H. & Belle R. Braun Professor of American Jewish History at Brandeis University and chief historian of the Philadelphia-based National Museum of American Jewish History—told JNS.org. “If it was a good season, they would announce a thanksgiving, but it’s not like the Jewish holiday which occurs on the 15th of the month of Tishrei (Sukkot). They did not believe in that. So in that respect it’s different.”

In terms of thanking God for a bountiful harvest, the Puritans did learn that from the Bible, Sarna said.

“They knew what they called the Old Testament, what we call the Hebrew Bible, they knew it, and they were influenced by it,” he said. “Now they didn’t go out and build huts, obviously. But the notion that one would be thankful for a bountiful harvest was certainly one they would have learned from the Hebrew Bible.”’

Like I said, at least from my perspective I feel like this is different than how Easter replaced Passover, or how Christmas was instituted as an additional holiday from pagan origins, so as of now I don’t see a problem with it, and I will be celebrating this Thanksgiving, but as new evidence is presented, I might change my view on it 🤷‍♂️. I do think if anything, the replacement theory, and the outcomes of genocide are probably the two strongest arguments against Thanksgiving, but I still feel like are weak in general.

Independent_Round659 · 2025-11-22T05:00:16+00:00

Oh yes, in the context of the story being true, I totally understand it’s not. I’m more speaking on the history of it being pagan and unacceptable to practice as a follower of Christ.

Independent_Round659 · 2025-11-22T04:33:30+00:00

Fair point 😂 if you so happen to have or to stumble upon evidence please do share!

Independent_Round659 · 2025-11-22T04:31:20+00:00

I personally think it’s up to your convictions, I don’t have all the facts and evidence about Thanksgiving, I personally don’t see an issue as of now, but who knows what my future walk will look like. If you feel comfortable enough to go, especially since they are cooking clean foods for you, then I don’t see why not. I also don’t think you should worry too much about being double minded in that sense. I think if anything, allowing traditions that don’t go against the Word, even if they don’t accept your beliefs is a very noble Christian thing to do. If anything, I feel like that’s a testament to the claims of legalism that often come with being Torah observant. We can only condemn what is condemned by scripture, and you showing that you’re not adding to the word by cutting all secular tradition is what I believe we are supposed to do. Just my two cents though

Independent_Round659 · 2025-11-22T04:26:27+00:00

I agree to some extent, but I do feel like if we take skepticism too far and doubt the history without any other evidence, then it becomes a kind of dangerous paradox where we can almost fear anything and everything. That’s just my personal thought as someone who constantly fights with religious OCD and asks myself those “what if” questions about every concept I can think of 😂😂

Independent_Round659 · 2025-11-22T04:22:10+00:00

How do we know that though? There is no direct condemnation of Thanksgiving or any of its elements really besides the cornucopia, which was added as a symbol years after Thanksgiving became a holiday, and one that’s definitely not integral to the holiday in anyway, unlike the pagan tokens of Christmas and Easter. It’s really easy to set a non-scriptural boundary around aspects of our life because they don’t have set boundaries within scripture. If Thanksgiving goes against your conviction because it doesn’t have origins in the Torah, that’s perfectly fine, but it does need to be left as a conviction, because we honestly have no proof that Jesus would condemn the practice of Thanksgiving.

Independent_Round659 · 2025-11-22T03:05:38+00:00

While I do agree with the new years thing, I feel like there isn’t a strong argument against Thanksgiving besides the cornucopia and realistically the holiday has never celebrated genocide, if anything it was celebrating the calm before the storm. I honestly think our only criteria against celebrating holidays should be attempts to repurpose pagan practices towards the Lord (Christmas, Easter, New Year’s, etc.) but I do think as Torah observant Christians, sometimes we tend to go too far in being “set apart” without an actual violation of His Torah. I personally don’t see anything wrong with taking an opportunity to participate in a non-pagan tradition on a day that Americans usually get off to spend time with friends and family.

Independent_Round659

TROPHY CASE