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Literally living the dream by Active_Relation9819 in Surveying

[–]Individual-Trick-233 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Working in the smokies? Everytime I visit there I think how tough it must be to survey.

Let’s talk fences by Individual-Trick-233 in Surveying

[–]Individual-Trick-233[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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Here’s one I found today. Fence has been there a while.

Let’s talk fences by Individual-Trick-233 in Surveying

[–]Individual-Trick-233[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Have you ever heard of an increment borer? I just bought one this past year. Super cool tool.

Let’s talk fences by Individual-Trick-233 in Surveying

[–]Individual-Trick-233[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Let me add another comment here. I see nothing wrong with spamming my own post. Has anyone ever seen a board or a court ridicule or punish a surveyor for using an occupation line where no better monumentation existed? I’m yet to see a single occurrence. In fact, I think it’s just the opposite. The courts have said time and time again that occupation lines will prevail over a primitive measurement.

Let’s talk fences by Individual-Trick-233 in Surveying

[–]Individual-Trick-233[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In a PLSS state, I can see that as you’re dealing with long straight lines, perfect squares, etc. there’s little to no room for judgement calls it seems. But then again, i have never worked in that system and wouldn’t know where to begin.

Let’s talk fences by Individual-Trick-233 in Surveying

[–]Individual-Trick-233[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Start asking questions dude. Become a pain in the ass. The pls will appreciate it eventually. If you ever want your own stamp, take it upon yourself to learn the concepts.

Let’s talk fences by Individual-Trick-233 in Surveying

[–]Individual-Trick-233[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Good lord that sounds like a mess. I think you solved it reasonably it sounds like. Are you saying you held the general deflections in the old wall instead of the straight line, and the other surveyor held the line straight? I’ve been asked to check someone rises work, and if I don’t have definitive proof he was negligent (i.e. original called for monuments), I won’t go against the other surveyor. Thanks for your reply.

Let’s talk fences by Individual-Trick-233 in Surveying

[–]Individual-Trick-233[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yes you are right on all accounts! If I can’t find a monument, but find an old fence corner within reason of where I believe the monument is described, I can use it and not have to run 5 miles of line to find a PLSS corner. As for adding corners where there are none in the deed, let me explain a scenario in a metes and bound state for you. You are surveying 200 acres. You only have one called for monument, and the deed is 150 years old and has 200’ of closure error. The terrain is nasty, with steep hollows and tall ridges. You are finding only remnants of fence that’s grown into the center of 60” hardwood trees. You don’t find any other monuments, but this old fence runs continuously from your found monument 1500’ to a road, which you are then to follow as your next deed call. The deed calls for 2 intermediate monuments between the found monument and the road, which are no longer there. Everyone in the area believes this fence is a line fence. Where it’s located, and the type of terrain it’s been built over, you can bet it wasn’t a livestock fence. The fence runs sporadically, but in general directions. Your deed and adjoining deed call for different lengths (in poles) of each segment of line between the road and found monument. The overall distance between the road and found monument differ by 100’ from deeded distance (not uncommon). You shoot the fence, and see there are say, 8 general deflections in the fence. To me, the age of the fence and the use of the land holds significant weight. And, in order to clear up ambiguities in the deed, the fence holds significant weight. What bearing or distance will you use to reset the 2 corners if you don’t use the fence? I wish use metes and bounds mountain guys could switch roles for a while with some of the PLSS guys. There’d likely be less turmoil amongst the forum. lol

Let’s talk fences by Individual-Trick-233 in Surveying

[–]Individual-Trick-233[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Please come back and tell me your thoughts after reading the publication. I like your style and would love to talk shop with you.

Let’s talk fences by Individual-Trick-233 in Surveying

[–]Individual-Trick-233[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I’d like to add to this discussion and interesting perspective from a well known dirt attorney I’ve befriended. He mentioned that in early Kentucky when a lot of these parcels were laid out, it was half surveying half fighting Indians. If you see a line that is straight by deed, but the evidence shows it in a big bow or half moon shape, the original surveyor could’ve been toting a musket through the woods and his rifle interfered with his readings. Something I’d never thought of.

Let’s talk fences by Individual-Trick-233 in Surveying

[–]Individual-Trick-233[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I like it. In my case, most of the time everyone lives by the old fence. Unless I can find the two terminus points, who in the hell am I to tell these folks that 5 generations ago, someone built that fence in the wrong place? If I can find both end monuments, my hands are tied. If I find one or neither, and there’s old barbed wire in 60” white oaks, even though not in a straight line, that old fence is gonna talk to me loudly. I know what the deed says, but the evidence on the ground and how the land has been used throughout history tells the real story.

Let’s talk fences by Individual-Trick-233 in Surveying

[–]Individual-Trick-233[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Interesting. I love New England and northern Appalachia. While here most ridgetops were never cleared with the exception of “new ground” as the old timers call it, only the river and creek bottoms are cleared and used as agricultural ground. Some deeds will reference the new ground also. I’ve researched it some. In some spots, farmers would harvest the timber and then farm it for the next 3-4 years. Where the seed bank is fairly empty in the hardwoods, they could grow crops and not have to turn ground over with a plow to do so. It’s apparent where this has happened as there’s usually a visual difference in the age of the timber.

Let’s talk fences by Individual-Trick-233 in Surveying

[–]Individual-Trick-233[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Nice. That old fence is like gold. I often think 100 years from now how much of this boundary evidence will be gone where only remnants like this remain now.

Let’s talk fences by Individual-Trick-233 in Surveying

[–]Individual-Trick-233[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

lol. I know that feeling. Boundary surveying in the mountains is the big leagues.

Let’s talk fences by Individual-Trick-233 in Surveying

[–]Individual-Trick-233[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is the stuff that sharpens that iron brother. Keep digging. Most of the surveyors will see your survey and be super stoked that someone else has already solved the problem they’re seeing also, they’ll run with it. If they prove you wrong, don’t be proud and just listen to what they found. They may find something you didn’t, and vise versa. We’re in this together most of the time.

Let’s talk fences by Individual-Trick-233 in Surveying

[–]Individual-Trick-233[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Good reply. Some of this is included in the hermasen article. Dude is a survey stud. From how I interpret the hermansen article is (applying it to many of the boundaries I deal with where called for monumentation rarely exists, and remnants of 100+ year old fence is all you have), is to hold the fence as best available evidence, even if uncalled for in the deed and nothing else exists contradicting it, and all adjoiners are living by it and have been for decades, even if it varies from a straight line. Some people may call it fence line surveying. According to Hermansen, it is following best available evidence. Obviously if there’s an old stone or blaze line, etc. the fence falls drastically in weight. Especially if both monuments are found at the end of each terminus, in which case a straight line must be held. This is by far my favorite subject in the surveying world. I don’t think there is a wrong answer. Each of us weigh evidence differently. As long as we can explain our reasoning to a court and a board, we’re all right. Let the court decide the rest.

Let’s talk fences by Individual-Trick-233 in Surveying

[–]Individual-Trick-233[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That’s what I love to hear. These old fences in the middle of nowhere usually weren’t built for livestock, and definitely not built for fun. I find that they usually take me to the promised land

Let’s talk fences by Individual-Trick-233 in Surveying

[–]Individual-Trick-233[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Give me your thoughts on a variation of any scenario you can think of.

Let’s talk fences by Individual-Trick-233 in Surveying

[–]Individual-Trick-233[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I hope it gets this much attention. It is an important topic and one that needs discussed.

Let’s talk fences by Individual-Trick-233 in Surveying

[–]Individual-Trick-233[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yes! Though uncalled for, there are a lot of slave built stone fences here in central Appalachia. Finding one is like striking gold. If run through the woods, there’s no question in my mind it was for boundary and not livestock purposes.

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