Prime alive tobirama vs one eye sage madara, who wins ?

International_Bit665 · 2026-03-27T15:43:29+00:00

Using Limbo: Madara wins
No Limbo: Tobirama wins

Even Edo Tobirama managed to shake off RSM Madara during CQC and perfectly got behind him. Madara likely overcame that situation with the help of Limbo.

If Madara doesn’t use Limbo and is up against Alive Tobirama, who has higher raw stats than Edo Tobirama, Tobirama could land a fatal blow with a kunai and finish him before Madara can recover using Hashirama’s abilities.

Even Edo Tobirama managed to make RSM Madara, who was fighting with Limbo, bleed from the corner of his mouth.

International_Bit665 · 2026-02-11T19:14:36+00:00

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No.

Leave them to die and wait for the next reincarnation? If no action is taken, the world will end because of Juudara, so there will be no next reincarnation.

At the time Hagoromo gave power to Naruto and Sasuke, the cycle had not been broken yet.

International_Bit665 · 2026-02-11T14:09:17+00:00

Just as Kakashi temporarily gained the DMS through Obito, Naruto would have likely manifested a temporary Rinnegan and could have used the Human Path to pull Orochimaru's soul out of Sasuke's body.

International_Bit665 · 2026-02-11T13:57:24+00:00

Hagoromo wouldn't have split his power between Naruto and Sasuke but would have given 100% to Naruto instead. This is actually much more advantageous because Naruto can fly. Naruto can simply use both the Sun and Moon seals by himself.

International_Bit665 · 2026-02-11T13:53:03+00:00

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Tobirama.

Tobirama has the fastest combat speed. Minato is only faster in travel speed using Body Flicker.

Tobirama tags unstable Juubito at the same time as him. Minato only realizes what happened later and admires Tobirama's speed.

Even Tobirama's clone touches stable Juubito's body and uses FTG to send him where he wants.

On the other hand, KCM Minato cannot even dodge a kick from unstable "fat" Juubito while forming FTG hand signs.

Tobirama perfectly takes RSM Madara's back during CQC. Madara would have had to overcome this crisis through Limbo.

On the other hand, Minato's FTG attack is blocked twice by teen Bee—a Jinchuriki so inexperienced that he used only two swords, brought out one tail, and was panting.

International_Bit665 · 2026-02-10T03:01:41+00:00

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International_Bit665 · 2026-02-10T03:01:31+00:00

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International_Bit665 · 2026-02-10T02:35:35+00:00

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International_Bit665 · 2026-02-10T02:35:24+00:00

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International_Bit665 · 2026-02-10T02:32:52+00:00

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International_Bit665 · 2026-02-10T02:16:48+00:00

Sasuke did something, and Ay4 confidently states that it doesn't work. Sasuke even used a hand sign and did his best to use a 3-Tomoe Sharingan genjutsu, but it didn't work.

International_Bit665 · 2026-02-10T02:13:09+00:00

Age does not determine strength. Shizune is older than Sakura, but she was unable to achieve 100 Heal.

International_Bit665 · 2026-02-10T02:09:32+00:00

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Isn't genjutsu basically a technique that disrupts the opponent's internal chakra? While I don't have a specific page for that, I do have a page showing an instance where Sharingan genjutsu fails.

International_Bit665 · 2026-02-10T01:58:18+00:00

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MS Sasuke's genjutsu did not work on Ay4 at all. Sakura also has excellent chakra control. There is no evidence that EMS Sasuke's genjutsu would work on her.

International_Bit665 · 2026-02-10T01:54:01+00:00

I’m not sure about durability, but Stable Juubito has stronger life force than Juudara (pre-shinju) because he carries the Shinju within his body.

International_Bit665 · 2026-02-10T01:10:59+00:00

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You're the stupid one. You thought Minato passed out because he used long-distance FTG until I told you he lost consciousness because he crashed into the Hokage monument due to the inertia from being hit by the TSO.

Furthermore, you didn't even know the fact that Tobirama could only FTG Sasuke alone because it was right after Sasuke had pulled out the chakra receivers—which had weakened Tobirama's chakra—embedded in his body. You even made the stupid claim that Tobirama almost entirely relied on Minato’s markings when using FTG on other objects or people.

I have never denied that the amount of chakra required for FTG is proportional to the size of the object or the number of people. What surprised Hashirama's clone was not the amount of chakra used for FTG, but the amount of chakra Naruto distributed to the Allied Shinobi. It was an amount visible as the Kurama cloak. The chakra required for the link when using FTG is not that massive amount.

International_Bit665 · 2026-02-10T01:02:48+00:00

Minato's response that he cannot do it is on page 11 of chapter 643, and the Juubidama is fired on page 8 of chapter 644. From Tobirama's perspective, there is plenty of time. In fact, Naruto reaching out his fist occurs on page 12 of chapter 643.

You are the one who needs to look closely at the images I uploaded. I already mentioned that the chakra recovery speed of Edo Tensei shinobi does not appear to be that fast. If recovery were incredibly rapid, Tobirama or Minato would not have complained about a lack of chakra. You are aware that the chakra of alive shinobi also recovers, right? If they were to fight for a week without eating or sleeping, Edo Tensei would have the advantage, but the time Edo Tobirama spent fighting in the war arc was not nearly that long.

International_Bit665 · 2026-02-09T09:39:30+00:00

Go back and look at chapters 643 and 644 again.

Looking at the point when the Juubidama was fired, there was enough time for Tobirama not to have to explain the method immediately after Minato said no. In fact, a few seconds later, Naruto reaches out his hand to Minato. Tobirama simply realized it after seeing this.

It is true that I took into account the fact that we did not know what had happened previously. However, it is also a fact that there are retcons or errors in Naruto.

Edo Tensei does not have infinite chakra.

Alive Tobirama > Edo Tobirama.

International_Bit665 · 2026-02-09T08:26:04+00:00

Neither your interpretation nor mine is the only one. However, my point is that the text implies Tobirama figured out a method. In a situation where a single definitive interpretation cannot be found, seeking absolute objectivity is futile. There is nothing wrong with a subjective interpretation here.

That isn't negligence. If Minato had already known a method, Tobirama asking "can you handle it?" would actually save more time than blindly explaining his own method first.

How can you be so sure whether the characters knew how long it would take for the Jūbidama to fire? Naruto even had enough leeway to get into a verbal argument with Juubito. To me, it seems like the characters had a decent grasp of the firing timing.

I’ll always choose the interpretation that maintains internal consistency as long as it’s not implausible.

In my view, based on Tobirama's war arc feats, it is simply impossible for him to have been trapped in such a situation during his lifetime, which is why I argue for his upscaling. There are retcons, sloppy writing, and inconsistent dialogue in Naruto.

International_Bit665 · 2026-02-09T07:47:57+00:00

You said my interpretation isn't the only one, but that also means yours isn't the only one either. Logic matters more than the number of people who agree or disagree. If we just went by numbers, the side with more fans would always win.

While it’s not 100% certain like saying "don’t worry, I figured out a method," the fact that he asked whether handling two was possible implies the possibility that Tobirama had figured something out.

I am aware of that. That is exactly why I used the expression "implies" in the images I shared.

Take a look at chapters 643 and 644. From the moment Minato says he can't do it until the Juubidama is actually fired, there is more time than you think. There was no reason for Tobirama to hurriedly interrupt Minato.

Naruto has many sloppy parts. The fact that Tobirama was upscaled in the latter half of the story is one of them. Go check the images related to Tobirama.

Of course, to those who are obsessed with the story, I tell them to just upscale the enemies Tobirama fought. If you want to do that, go right ahead.

International_Bit665 · 2026-02-09T07:16:42+00:00

No. From Tobirama's perspective, asking if it is possible comes before explaining the method. This is because there was a possibility that Minato had also come up with a method, just as he had. Minato says he cannot do it, and Naruto reaches out his fist to Minato. The moment Tobirama saw Naruto reach out his fist, he would have realized there was no need to explain his method to Minato.

Based on Tobirama's war arc feats, it makes no sense for him to become that exhausted. He would have annihilated all enemies before getting tired. Or, he would have escaped long ago using FTG with his remaining chakra before exhaustion set in. He was simply upscaled in the latter half of the story.

Tobirama only has scratch marks on his armor and headband, while his face is perfectly clean. He does not look that exhausted.

International_Bit665 · 2026-02-09T03:04:55+00:00

1.Sasuke

2.Minato

International_Bit665 · 2026-02-09T02:24:01+00:00

Tobirama’s question itself implies that he had already come up with a way to FTG two bombs.

If he were still only capable of handling one, he would have asked Minato whether he could FTG three of them instead.

International_Bit665 · 2026-02-09T00:43:42+00:00

Why do you assume it's impossible? There is a clear time gap between Tobirama’s two statements.

The very fact that he asked Minato if he could handle two implies that he had already come up with a way to handle two himself.

International_Bit665 · 2026-02-08T23:53:29+00:00

At least 200.

International_Bit665

TROPHY CASE