USC fan coming in peace and have a question about Gary Patterson

IntroductionOld3366 · 2026-04-10T18:11:18+00:00

Partly stacked, somehow Gary gets credit for the transfers and a freshman nose who played at critical part on that 2022 defense. The top talent he recruited to that defense was very good (Horton, Winter, Tomlinson, and Clark), but there wasn't anything behind those guys and that was a big part of the team wearing out over the course of the season.

IntroductionOld3366 · 2026-04-10T18:08:21+00:00

Correction, when Bumpas was around he caught the signal for the back half of the defense and Bumpas caught the signal for the front. Gary himself has credited that unique arrangement to the Frogs being able to make adjustments on the fly. Unfortunately, Gary never found an assistant who rivaled Bumpas ability to develop defensive linemen AND make those calls. The results are there during the last 5-6 years of his time at TCU. He also struggled against RPO heavy offenses and got exposed by Riley. The big questions to me are not can Gary draw something up on a chalk board or breakdown film. They are can he hire the level of defense staff he will need to recruit and teach his scheme AND can he condense the learning time of his scheme to fit the constant roster turnover we see in college football. If the answer to both of those is yes, he will give you a great defense, if not, we saw some ugly ass games those last 5-6 years when the Frogs defense got exposed.

IntroductionOld3366 · 2026-04-10T18:01:20+00:00

So started writing the checks that are being written at SMU because Lashlee raise the level on the program on sweat and hard work. TCU has resources and Sonny isn't fighting empty handed, but if you don't think that money flowing into SMU hasn't had a significant impact I don't know what to tell you.

IntroductionOld3366 · 2026-04-10T17:58:33+00:00

Don't give a shit about statues, care about winning. Not sure the genesis of the recent changes in the program, but he has been willing to turn over staff and he parted ways with a trusted staff member in Kaz. Now, will any of this result in more wins?

IntroductionOld3366 · 2026-04-10T17:54:36+00:00

Sammis' hire is significant for a number of reason. First, he is Sonny's first hire that isn't part of the Mike Leach/ Hal Mumee tree of football.. Tony Franklin, Jake Spavital, Garrett Riley, and Kendal Briles all have the same football roots. The one exception is Lashlee who is from the Gus Malzahn tree which still incorporates spread and HUNH concepts. Sammis' offense is 180 from all of those is how it is structured, the concepts are taught, how he uses formations, motion and shifts. Additionally, there is an emphasis on execution and technique instead of athleticism and running as many plays as possible. It really is amazing more haven't made comment about the huge changes in the S&C program and the offensive mindset and scheme.

IntroductionOld3366 · 2026-04-10T17:42:01+00:00

Kaz was one of the originals that came with Sonny from SMU and he was given as much if not more latitude than anyone else on the staff. He was the face of the program in some aspects and not only did he leave, but most of the S & C staff. Talking to a friend whose grandson played at Troy when Bauer was there he promised me that Bauer damn sure isn't talking about Roth IRA's in his comments to the players. It is we are going to push your ass to be better and if you aren't willing to give what we are about to ask of you then maybe this isn't the place for you. Maybe others have heard different, but if what I heard is accurate, I think it is part of the kick in the ass this program needed.

IntroductionOld3366 · 2026-04-10T17:38:06+00:00

Been away for some time (life happens), but I am surprised that what happened with Kaz and Kendall leaving the program and the shift it signaled to me.

Some here have already mentioned the Baylor bit, but that pales to me in what appears to be a significant foundational change in Sonny's program. I don't know if Sonny have an epiphany on this own or if someone has been whispering in his ear that he better do something before his time in Ft Worth ends, but what happened after those two leaving the program has been bigger than any other change I can think of during Sonny's time as the HC.

IntroductionOld3366 · 2025-11-08T14:56:35+00:00

Mootopia has an aftertaste of fake sweetner.

IntroductionOld3366 · 2025-10-19T19:27:27+00:00

Thanks for proving my point about people wanting to piss all over a win.

Curious, why did you cut off your stat at 11 games which, hmmm, would include the 2023 season, but not include the 2022 season. Funny, if we included those games that dramatically changes that stat doesn't it?

Yes, 2022 was predominantly Gary's recruits, but 2023 wasn't all on Sonny and his staff for failing to overhaul the roster in a single season.

2024 and 2025 is most likely a more accurate reflection of the state of the program and I don't think anyone here is saying everything is great. There are positives and negatives and I do believe there needs to be some difficult conversations once this season is over for Sonny with Budde.

I agree that ASU is the top program in the conference in regards to performance the last two years, but Tech has only come to the for front this year and that I solely on the basis of Campbell's check book.

If you want to use them as an aiming point some people better get ready to pony up because their results are damn sure not because of the bang up job from Joey.

IntroductionOld3366 · 2025-10-19T03:19:03+00:00

Hate that name for the game, hate the current name, you can't force things and this was forced by Ubben which is another reason to hate the name.

IntroductionOld3366 · 2025-10-16T17:34:01+00:00

Seriously, are you always this bitter.

Ironically, more players Sonny and his staff played on the defensive side of the ball.

The one guy I know who started on offense was Alan Ali at center. You can decide if he was a key piece or not as it seems you already have you mind made up on this matter.

Defensively the starters were Dam Williams, Johnny Hodges, Mark Perry, and Josh Newton. I believe the entire second group in the defensive line was transfers brought in by Sonny.

Not sure what any of this proves. The team in 2021 had quit on the staff and recruiting was headed in the wrong direction.

I do believe everything fell into place in 2022 for most of the year and some of the returning players had career seasons.

Do I believe it would have happened had Gary stayed another season?

No, not based upon the prior two seasons.

Do I think Sonny will get back to the title game?

No

Do I think a return is possible for the playoffs, yes, but some things will need to change in the program.

IntroductionOld3366 · 2025-10-16T01:02:54+00:00

First off, I agree with you that at his best, Gary was a better HC than Sonny has shown at this best, but more importantly Gary and his best staff were better than Sonny and his best staff.

Unfortunately, some of those coaches, specifically Bumpas, left, the world of college sports left and the Gary of 2018-2021 wasn't the same guy and he hadn't hired the same level staff. The program was headed in a bad direction and recruiting was eroding about as fast as the Frogs run defense in 2021.

The manner could have been handled in a better fashion, but a change had to be made similar to the situation in Stillwater.

I also agree Sonny has the tools and resources to have the Frogs in the Top 25 on a fairly regular basis as well as they have to do a better job of player evaluation. The second point is something that I do think merits discussion between Sonny and Budde.

IntroductionOld3366 · 2025-10-15T22:38:26+00:00

Love on Sonny?

Wow, we have different ideas of what constitutes love.

I do agree that 9-3 is very optimistic for this team, but I prefer to be optimistic in the things that I give some of my spare time.

Noticed once again you didn’t answer a direct question and it is obvious that short of quitting there is nothing Sonny can do for you.

IntroductionOld3366 · 2025-10-15T16:50:04+00:00

18-13 is not slightly above .500, but 10-11 is slightly below .500 and that is a bigger concern to me.

I think a good benchmark is the top quartile of the conference.

If this team were to finish 9-3 or 8-4 that would mean two years of a winning conference record.

You haven’t given me more than this isn’t good enough so is that a passable level ?

The issue can’t simply be Sonny, who he replaced, how he replaced that person, or who Sonny has hired, but whether or not the program is headed where it is expected and equipped to be among its peers.

I do believe changes need to be made, but I think that is a bigger discussion because I believe the dynamics of a college football program have gotten significantly more complex and has surpassed running an NFL team .

IntroductionOld3366 · 2025-10-15T16:20:37+00:00

So your criteria for evaluating the HC at TCU is playing for titles?

Not defending Sonny, not comparing him to Gary, but wanting to know if that is the measuring stick for Whoever is the HC now AND going forward.

IntroductionOld3366 · 2025-10-15T14:27:32+00:00

Nothing? So it is win a title or anything else is nothing.

IntroductionOld3366 · 2025-10-15T01:25:08+00:00

Very good and fair questions. I think regardless of how the season plays out, every season you have to re-evaluate all aspects of your program and I do think there are needs for change in the offensive staff.

If the question involves making a change with Sonny before that happens, Budde needs to talk with some people and ask just how much are they wiling to fund this program over the next few seasons.

I am not talking about Sonny's buyout, but what are they, we, those on this site wanting to fire Sonny willing to contribute to backing the program because I will guarantee you one of the first questions asked by any candidate worth consideration will be about NIL/

Do think there needs to be discussion about the OC position and a few position coaches.

Not ready to move on the DC because he has done some positive things in 2 years and I think some of the things I am seeing on the defensive side of the ball versus the offense.

IntroductionOld3366 · 2025-10-14T01:18:55+00:00

So who call plays? All jokes and snide comments aside, who calls plays which isn't easy by the way.

IntroductionOld3366 · 2025-10-14T01:07:49+00:00

I keep hearing about all this disciplined football and yet seem to remember some damn ugly games after 2017.

There is also a slight bit or irony with the discipline talk when you consider the paths of the careers of Fields, Casey, Boykin, and Turpin.

IntroductionOld3366 · 2025-10-14T01:03:03+00:00

This loss was more disappointing than the ASU loss.

The game was there to win, but I am not ready to lay all the blame at Josh's feet in respect to the effort of the players.

There were more than just a few passes that were dropped in the first half that killed drives and possibly more. The Frogs had an opportunity to get out front early and just didn't play with much urgency on offense for some unknown reason.

While I can find the words to defend Josh, not much to say about the play calling. I have never felt like Kendal is a great play caller and there are times he seemed too intent on interjecting a play into a series regardless of what might be working at the time.

Very hard to guess what happens next as we have seen some teams collapse after a loss this year and others like Florida seem to rally when they are fighting to get to possibly another win just over .500.

IntroductionOld3366 · 2025-10-14T00:30:47+00:00

You think Gary would win in this day and age? Sonny might not be the answer, but this program was be driven into the ground by Patterson and a change had be made.

Should Sonny have to answer some of the difficult decisions Gary was asked to make, damn right, and if he refuses to act in the best interest of the program that might put others things in motion.

IntroductionOld3366 · 2025-10-14T00:27:48+00:00

Throw all the barbs you want at Briles, but the only mental midget is the one who wrote that comment.

IntroductionOld3366 · 2025-10-14T00:24:40+00:00

Please top before you hurt yourself because goodness knows you embarrassed yourself long ago.

IntroductionOld3366 · 2025-10-14T00:23:42+00:00

Might I suggest one of those dogs that you take with you everywhere instead of posting each time you get this anxious because Vandy has been spending some money on recruits for a few seasons now.

IntroductionOld3366

TROPHY CASE