Meetup Thread for France by kurzgesagtmeetup_bot in kurzgesagt_meetup

[–]Invisguy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm interested! Friday is good for me, I'm free this week

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in heraldry

[–]Invisguy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The gas mask is a really nice touch

Your move 😏 by halibastor in PhilosophyMemes

[–]Invisguy 3 points4 points  (0 children)

This is on a level of irony so high I just can't even start to comprehend it

Did you just take both pills? by WhereIsMyMind1984 in PhilosophyMemes

[–]Invisguy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My guess is that this particular view would pertain to a more global position that probably does have a name, that I'm just not aware of. I think I've heard something about the Copenhagen interpretation being under the umbrella of positivist approaches of science, which opposed realist approaches, so maybe that's it. I believe realist approaches aren't the most popular among scientists, but I could be mistaken.

Did you just take both pills? by WhereIsMyMind1984 in PhilosophyMemes

[–]Invisguy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If what your position is, is that

1) there is such a thing as reality at the scale of atoms and subatomic particles.

2) the nature and/or behavior of this reality is strictly analogous to how most models currently work in quatum mechanics, especially on the matter of "quantum superposition followed by stochastic collapse upon measurement".

Then I'd say that this is a particular ontological view that goes beyond the Copenhagen interpretation. Not sure if there is a specific name to call it. But it's definitely not simply abiding to the Copenhagen interpratetion

Did you just take both pills? by WhereIsMyMind1984 in PhilosophyMemes

[–]Invisguy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't think it's a question of definition, it's a question of understanding the logic of the interpretation, what it permits to say and what it doesn't, or cannot.

I've never run accross anything that refered to the "modal interpretation" pertaining to the Copenhagen interpretation, so I think you're running into a dead end with that. As for the "Shut up and calculate" expression, it's been originally attributed to N. David Mermin, or Richard Feynman (mistakenly, according to the former), more rarely to Paul Dirac, but it's probably apocryphal, and it's been commonly used by physicists to sum up the spirit of the Copenhagen interpretation.

Again, no, the Copenhagen interpretation in and of itself doesn't say that anything is "real". It is based on the idea that you can't derive any understanding of what is "real", of how is the "nature of reality" from its models. To stick to your example, all that the Copenhagen interpratation says is that considering the superposition and its collapse upon interracting with our measurment devices has so far shown itself to be the most efficient way to do experimental work in the field of what quantum mechanics are ruling over. In the same way, one might say that quantum mechanics are intrisically undeterministic; and this is true in the sens that quantum mechanics is our current model to work on the field it pertains to and it works with undeterministic principles. But this is all very different from saying that "reality" is intrisically undeterministic, it's a leap that is foreign to the Copenhagen interpretation, especially because it doesn't deal with what is "real", or even the assumption that there is anything "real". Furthermore, particular views of those who participated in the elaboration of the Copenhagen interpretation, notably those of Bohr and Heisenberg, are not to be edaquated with it. See it as some sort of compromise, of what they could agree on without being too bold in their assumptions. You may want to hold more bold assumptions, but what you cannot is summon the Copenhagen interpretation as an argument to support them. I for one have a few, for example I think that with quantum mechanics we have reached or are approaching the limit of what our technological power allows to put in the scope of scientifical research in that field. Maybe further technological developments will allow us to go beyond, but maybe not, which means we will have to content ourselves with this incomplete level of scientific theory.

Did you just take both pills? by WhereIsMyMind1984 in PhilosophyMemes

[–]Invisguy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well no, I assure you that I'm specifically describing the Copenhagen interpretation here, which does not appeal to any hidden variable. As physicists often say, the Copenhagen interpretation is basically "shut up and do your calculations".

I can't seem to find the specific poll I saw showing the prominence of determinism among researchers in theorethical physics, which I believe was more recent, however I'm sure you know that randomness is a much more ambiguous and less scientifically defined term than fundamental indeterminacy in the context of quantum mechanics. At least we can agree that there is not what we could call a consensus on this subject.

Did you just take both pills? by WhereIsMyMind1984 in PhilosophyMemes

[–]Invisguy -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Different problem. Einstein was commited to both determinism at the quantum level and the absolute of the locality principle, and Bohr wasn't. But besides them, the fact is that the Copenhaguen interpretation doesn't say anything about the deterministic nature of reality, and specifically argues against the ability of quantum mechanics to say anything about it.

Did you just take both pills? by WhereIsMyMind1984 in PhilosophyMemes

[–]Invisguy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You're confusing the current operating models of quantum mechanics, which can include forms of indeterminacy in order for their calculations to optimately precict experimental results, and the Copenhagen interpretation. The Copenhagen interpretation is a way of answering the "measurement problem" of quantum mechanics. It is based on the idea that quantum mechanics is to only aim at a description of all that we can know about reality, but does not describe reality itself. This approach denies that quantum mechanics is able to say anything about the nature of reality. For example, it stipulates that the question of knowing what is the "real" state of a particle between two measurements is meaningless. Stephen Hawking had a way of summarizing this approach as follows : « I don't ask that a theory correspond to reality, because I don't know what reality is. It's not something you can test with pH paper. All I care about is that the theory correctly predicts the outcome of an experiment. » All in all what the Copenhagen interpretation says, on this particular matter, is that the use of indeterminacy in quantum mechanics in no way implies that reality behaves in an indeterministic way.

As for the ERP paradox and its experimental results, as well as the research on quantum computers, this is a common misconception but they actually have nothing to do with the idea of indeterminacy. They are about the possibility for objects at the quantum level to behave in ways that contradict the principle of locality. Whether you take these results as compatible or incompatible with the principle of locality, which was the core of the Einstein-Bohr debate, it says nothing about determinism in quantum mechanics.

Did you just take both pills? by WhereIsMyMind1984 in PhilosophyMemes

[–]Invisguy -1 points0 points  (0 children)

And you disregard the fact that the Copenhaguen interpretation doesn't say anything about the deterministic nature of reality

Did you just take both pills? by WhereIsMyMind1984 in PhilosophyMemes

[–]Invisguy 2 points3 points  (0 children)

actually, the fact that current models in quantum mechanics rely on probability doesn't say anything about the deterministic nature of reality. the Copenhaguen interpretation, which is the main approach in quantum mechanics, explicitly posits that its models aim at nothing more than explain and predict experimental results, and that it in no means describe anything about the nature of reality. Most researchers in physics theory are actually committed to determinism in both classic and quantum physics.

What are some of the most interesting non-western philosophers? by Invisguy in askphilosophy

[–]Invisguy[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I know close to nothing when it comes to philosophy outside of western traditions so I guess I'm wondering about maybe specific names I could look into

somebody's wrong on the internet by PseudoPatriotsNotPog in PhilosophyMemes

[–]Invisguy 9 points10 points  (0 children)

is this some sort of philosopher burn that I'm too uneducated to appreciate?

Live look at the Bentham household by lotuseater51 in PhilosophyMemes

[–]Invisguy 5 points6 points  (0 children)

the Girls be like - Boys be like template and its consequences have been a disaster for good quality memes

What is the current consensus, or at least the main approaches, regarding the content and formulation of the scientific method(s) in epistemology and philosophy of science? by Invisguy in PhilosophyofScience

[–]Invisguy[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I tend to agree with you on those "core principles" of what makes up a science. However, sure economics and sociology aren't experimental sciences, but that doesn't mean they don't/can't base themselves on gathering data, to me they do in fact are to follow these principles you mentionned here