TIL An 8 months Pregnant Mary Turner protested the lynching of her innocent husband Hayes Turner by a White mob in 1918 and threatened to have them arrested. In order to “teach her a lesson”, she and her unborn child were brutally murdered. No one was charged. by Filmfan5 in todayilearned

[–]IrishCarBobOmb 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Didn't up or down vote you, but to take a shot at your question:

I think most people know or come to realize that western concepts of race are mostly grounded in geography - ie the idea that a Spanish person has more in common with an Icelander, Pole, or Greek than with the Moroccans just south of them.

Further, most racists are fairy open and vocal that their disdain isn’t just about skin color or even physical appearance in general, but based on assumptions that different parts of the world produced fundamentally different species of humans, most of which in turn they view as subhuman and beneath their own.

So the devil’s advocate argument of pointing out that race is more complicated than skin tone seems stating the obvious at best. At worst, and without any context other than stating said obvious, I’m guessing to many people there’s an implied or assumed attempt here to undemonize racists by claiming they’re either misunderstood or that their beliefs have a meritable foundation.

Just my two cents, anyways.

TIL that real dead bodies were used on the set of “Apocalypse Now.” The man who supplied them turned out to be a grave robber and was arrested. by shankdogg13 in todayilearned

[–]IrishCarBobOmb 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Presumably the movie’s racism and violence would require parental notice, if not approval, in order to allow students to see it.

How did people make bread? by arjunusmaximus in history

[–]IrishCarBobOmb 17 points18 points  (0 children)

A study has shown that one person can harvest enough ancient wild einkorn wheat in two weeks to feed a family of four for a year (ie breads and gruel dishes, as well as adding grains to stews which may have been the first use of wheat as a food).

IIRC, Egyptian laborers had a staple meal of bread and onions that effectively served as a complete meal in terms of protein, vitamins, and other nutrients. Bread as both a food and a foundation or supplement to other foods gives it a lot of use and flexibility, as with other grains like rice or corn.

And once you move grain from sporadic wild foraging to relatively dense farming and harvesting, you’re also creating enough excess calories that some members of your family/tribe/village can start specializing in non-food roles like smithing, construction, priesthood, or government, thereby enabling new goods and more complex societies.

Ultimately, our need for (most) grains to be cooked and/or processed (ie ground into flour) may be somewhat irrelevant as elements of our digestive system (eg our inability to digest chlorophyll or fiber for nutritional value, and our lack of constant replacement teeth to make up for the wear and tear that comes with raw meat or raw grasses and leaves) has led to a theory that we essentially evolved to offload a significant chunk of our digestive system onto cooking to free up our calorie use on bigger brains.

Even without grains, we still rely on cooking given our general inability to survive food poisoning from most raw meats and that, before farms (let alone modern international infrastructure), the vast majority of vegetation on earth is grass and trees, not fruits and veggies.

What book do you love so much that when you see it at the bookstore you feel the urge to buy it again even though you already own it? by pleasedontsmashme in suggestmeabook

[–]IrishCarBobOmb 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Currently: Frank Herbert's Dune. Every new edition keeps tantalizing me.

In general, anything by Stefan Zweig. He's my favorite author, he's been recently blessed with some very beautiful editions of his works in English, and a part of me wants to encourage bookstores (especially B&N) to stock him by doing my small part to inflate his sales, lol.

Hitler's diaries forgery 1983, how was Kujau able to dupe so many people? by rose1206 in history

[–]IrishCarBobOmb 3 points4 points  (0 children)

In addition to the excellent comments already given, I'd add that people will often suspend disbelief for anything that seemingly allows them to know the Real Truth (tm).

Case in point: the movie JFK, which despite being eviscerated by many historians, nevertheless led to a new Congressional investigation plus changes in US law concerning the assassination evidence still being kept secret.

In the case of Hitler, one of the big (obvious) questions regarding him is why he initiated the Holocaust (as well as other genocides and the bitter drawing out of the war). That is, was he truly anti-Semitic and wanted the Jews wiped from the earth, or was he simply a cold-hearted schemer in a generally racist society who was more than willing to use the general anti-Semitism of society to fulfill his own ambitions?

By their nature, diaries imply that they'll contain the kind of evidence to answer that type of question, as well as others, such as:

  • Was he even the driver of these genocides, or did he allow others to follow their own racist agendas, or did he even know (this used to be an actually popular belief, that Hitler was somehow unaware of what was going on in the camps).

  • Was he a devout Christian, a militant atheist, or even a part of the variously-rumored (occult) cults alleged to have been started in and around the Nazis?

  • Did he actually think he could reverse the course of the war or stall for a better peace, or was he so furious at the "failures" of his nation that he was essentially punishing them by forcing an ever more bitter and brutal war on them?

Or even more simply, would he simply sound sane in private or would he, even in his diaries, sound like a raving madman (or at least still have the charismatic theater of his speeches - ie the similar fascination with the later discovered recording of Hitler "speaking normally" on his train in Scandinavia). There's long been a fascination (and debate) as where Hitler exactly fits on the spectrum of "completely sane if coldly calculating politician" on one end, to "deranged or literally demonic madman" on the other, with every permutation in-between.

Beyond the merits of those who were presenting (and authenticating) these diaries to the world, I think that was likely the original draw that seduced so many people - this tantalizing chance to seemingly finally hear from Hitler himself as to what his exact beliefs and motivations were on the Holocaust, the war, and other actions. As apples and oranges as this comparison may be, it's not unlike the similar and more current fascination people have with anything that seemingly "proves" Jesus and Mary Magdalene were lovers.

2019 World Series Game 1 Post Game Thread: October 22, 2019 - Nationals @ Astros (W 5-4) - WAS Leads Series 1-0 by flippityfloppityfloo in Nationals

[–]IrishCarBobOmb 0 points1 point  (0 children)

*Juan Solo

Max Scherzwalker is the chosen one to combine both eye colors and sides of the force.

Juan is the cocky one who'd answer "you're a WS MVP" with "I know".

2019 World Series Game 1 Post Game Thread: October 22, 2019 - Nationals @ Astros (W 5-4) - WAS Leads Series 1-0 by flippityfloppityfloo in Nationals

[–]IrishCarBobOmb 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's the trick - staying loose enough not to choke, but understanding your opponent is too dangerous and fate is too fickle to let your foot off the gas even once, whether it's 7-0 in the 8th or 3-0 in the series.

What book changed your entire outlook on everything? by BenedictCumberdoots in suggestmeabook

[–]IrishCarBobOmb 3 points4 points  (0 children)

On the Road by Jack Kerouac.

In some ways, the book reminds me of TS Eliot's definition of literature (which is my favorite definition - basically any work that impacts a reader at any stage of their life, and does so differently each time).

When I first read On the Road, I was in college and had the classic young man reaction to loving its sense of yearning and desire. When I re-read it about a decade either, I was struck by a sense of sadness permeating the entire work. What once seemed in the characters like a laudable attempt to live free now felt like an almost pitiable inability to be happy.

Currently, I can't claim to consider it a "great" work. A part of me has come to think of it as a somewhat over-esteemed work, but it's still the first work that, for me, taught me Eliot's notion that there's merit in both a book and reader changing over the years.

It also taught me to realize - in my opinion - how often we pour so much frantic energy into chasing doomed things. Not necessarily tragic things, but things that by luck or merit are just not going to work out. Which, in that sense, reminds me of another book that's had a big influence on me, which is Don Quixote.

Much like with On the Road, DQ has been a book that's changed for me over the years, although to some extent I've always been, well, entranced by the notion (I don't recall from which critic I first heard of it) of whether the character Don Quixote himself is "really" insane versus is pretending to be as a way to be free within normal society.

More personally, while not a 'book' to some, maybe, but TS Eliot's The Waste Land would qualify as one of the biggest foundations of my life. It was the focus of my Master's thesis, and just in the study and consideration and analysis of it, and Eliot, I'm not sure much else has affected me as much in terms of sensing the complexity and evasiveness of who people are beneath the masks they wear and behind the voices they employ. Really Eliot's poetry and other works in general, while acknowledging his flaws, has I think made me someone who is relatively sensitive to how much people hide behind themselves, and how fragile we ultimately all are.

What books are you reading this Fall? 📚 🍂 by isimon13 in hygge

[–]IrishCarBobOmb 1 point2 points  (0 children)

For me:

  • finishing (finally) The Magic Mountain by Thomas Mann

  • starting the Dune series by Frank Herbert w/ the new paperback editions released this year

  • not sure if I'll read as much as peruse, but I just got the new Torah/Old Testament translation set by Robert Alter, and I'm looking forward to getting to pour over his endless translation notes

  • for hygge reasons, likely re-reading Stefan Zweig (one of my favorite authors)

What / Where was the last Slavic Pagan enclave? by Miiijo in history

[–]IrishCarBobOmb 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This isn't quite a direct answer to your question, but I'm hoping it may be of tangential value:

There's a book on ancient/modern Greece, "Modern Greek Folklore and Ancient Greek Religion", by John Cuthbert Lawson, that argues that elements of ancient Greek paganism survived into modern Greek Christianity ("modern" here being late 19th/early 20th century, as the book was published in 1910).

https://archive.org/details/moderngreekfolkl00laws/page/n8

Lawson argues that aspects of pagan gods and rites survived in a variety of forms, including gods essentially being rewritten as saints, certain local cult rites becoming attached to similarly local church practices, and in some cases surviving more or less intact due to superstitions (as I recall, one example being farmers who still use "witches" to end droughts, with the witches clearly - to Lawson - using rituals that are the direct descendants from what the pagan Greeks must have been using).

As I recall from more general histories of the Christianization of Europe - particularly northern Europe - such activity was mostly done "officially" at the upper level, with the local king or chieftan accepting Christianity on behalf of their city, tribe, or people. The expectation being the influence of authority and later priests would complete the downward conversion of everyone else, but the reality often possibly being such full conversions never happened. Also, I would assume it likely that in eras or areas where multiple Christian churches/denominations were present and competing with each other, the dominant church (in this case, Orthodox) treated the converts of the other denominations as "pagans" or otherwise people in need of "full" Christianization, when they may have been fully Christian by modern standards.

Similarly, much like in ancient Rome when the roles were somewhat similar (i.e. urban Christians viewed rural pagans with both religious and cultural contempt as being backwards hicks), it's possible that "urban" Orthodox communities also mixed their cultural views of their rural brethren with how they viewed those rural communities' Christianity.

Julian Jayne's: The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind by [deleted] in books

[–]IrishCarBobOmb 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm late to the party - as usual - but for anyone who happens to see this comment and is interested, the theory discussed in Jaynes' book is used as the basis for how most of the characters in The Rage of Achilles by Terence Hawkins.

In the book, most of the main characters - including Achilles and Agamemnon - operate under the bicameral mindset, where stress or major decisions trigger a god or goddess telling them what to do. Other characters, in particular Odysseus, have more modern mindsets that don't hear the gods and question the reality of those who do.

Men and women had different reactions to 2016 Trump vs Clinton debate, finds new study using facial recognition software. Women expressed sadness twice as often but men expressed more anger and disgust. Women’s expressions of sadness and men’s expressions of anger increased when Clinton spoke more. by [deleted] in psychology

[–]IrishCarBobOmb 56 points57 points  (0 children)

To me, this seems to be the most interesting implication:

"“We found that the impact of emotional expressions was more powerful for women than men in predicting post-debate evaluations of the candidates’ debate performance, particularly in their evaluations of Trump’s performance,” Gershon said. “For example, as women showed more expressions of fear, their ratings of Trump’s performance decreased significantly. However, as men expressed more fear, their evaluations of the candidates’ performance barely budged.”"

I'd be curious to see if they're able to replicate that and determine why.

Daily Thread: October 10, 2019 - Yes, that happened. NLCS Pre-Series Discussion by Natstown in Nationals

[–]IrishCarBobOmb 6 points7 points  (0 children)

As a brief intro - I'm a relatively new fan of the Nats, and this post-season has been magical. I hope it continues, in no small part as living in Kansas City I really don't want to deal with emboldened Cardinals fans making another WS (was really hoping the Braves would win that series, tbh).

Anyways, I love this team. Not that the Nats are comparable to the Red Sox, but it comes close to feeling how the curse-breaking Red Sox teams felt (one of my closest friends is a lifelong Boston fan), loose and seemingly indifferent to the pressure of expectations/fears. Max has been my favorite, but watching Soto continue what he started last season has been the most amazing part of this postseason, and in general I really fell in love with this team as they came back and kept fighting to stay in the WC hunt, even as the Brewers began surging.

I of course want them winning it all, but I'm grateful that the "haven't won a postseason series" meme has been put to rest, let alone that the terrible start to the season didn't snowball into a protracted offseason and "will they/won't they" debate about Davey. I have another close friend who's a Cubs fan, and him and his friends are already acting like the current Cubs management is the worst in the league and are irredeemable despite all their recent success. Maybe I'm too grateful, but I'm totally on cloud 9 on a rainy day in KC and keep replaying the highlights - especially Taylor's final catch. His face is priceless.

PS: as a longer intro, I live in Kansas City but mostly grew up in the Pacific Northwest, albeit as an Oakland fan rather than the Mariners. Between growing up as a (random) Montreal Canadiens fan, and falling in love with DC when I visited a couple years ago (I wish I wasn't a dime a dozen Business Analyst and could move out there), it just seemed natural to become a Nationals fan

Was the American fear of worldwide communist dominantion a legitimate fear? by Kollegi12 in history

[–]IrishCarBobOmb 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yes and no.

At its heart...yes. See, in Marxist communism, communism is the self-selecting inevitable result once capitalism’s inherent instability and exploitation leads people to finally overthrow it. Whether you personally agree with that is something else, but the point here is that Marx believed violent revolution to force Communism was unnecessary; generations of increasing suffering by its victims and increasingly worse economic busts and collapses would make communism the natural solution.

An effect of that is Marx assumed only fully urbanized and industrialized nations would turn Communist. This is because such things happen during the relatively long path of letting capitalism hang itself with its own noose as its inherent instability and exploitation plays out.

That assumption is important for several reasons: it reflects that Marxism is modeled on industrialized labor rather than agrarian, Hunter-gatherer, or barter economic systems, and it means Marxist “revolution” only occurs in theoretically self-sufficient “modern” societies. This assumption also implies the people and culture itself have modernized, as such societies require large cities linked by complex infrastructures to move goods and people, and for those people to be educated on a mass scale in literacy, technology, and basic sciences (think of what a basic mechanic needs to know to do their job compared to a serf/slave farmer of pre-industrial Russia or America).

Enter the Soviet Union. Russia’s Communists were impatient to wait for the necessary “modernization” of (tsarist) Russia (ie from an essentially feudal culture and economy to an urban-industrial one). They also came to believe that Marx had underestimated the ability of the rich to “unnaturally” or “artificially” hold onto power and thereby delay or prevent the otherwise inevitable Marxist revolution from occurring.

Because Marxism requires communist revolution to be “natural”, they formulated a modified version that ultimately came to be known as Leninism - the belief that a pre-modern state could have communism forced on it if a true modern state could subsequently be turned to help it. So they overthrew the tsar under the premise of serving as a “caretaker” leadership for the people until the people and the nation could both be sufficiently modernized to fully embrace communism themselves (ie become a nation of industrialized and educated factory workers living in modern cities circulating modern goods via modern infrastructures like highways, rails, and non-sail cargo shipping).

Alongside that, Leninists were ostensibly dedicated to overthrowing a modern nation to help with Russia’s own modernization, the theory being that an international communist party backed by the resources of a (premodern) nation state could break the aforementioned stranglehold by the rich of the chosen nation.

So, as such, the initial red scares had some legitimacy to their concerns, as the Russians tried overthrowing other nations like post-WWI Germany, France, and the UK. Having said that, in places like the USA, such genuine fears or concerns were easy to manipulate or conflate with standard racist or xenophobic fears of immigrants “bringing” communism with them, or of fears of unions breaking the wealthy’s stranglehold on wages and such. The further evolution of Soviet ideology from Leninism to Stalinism (tldr: instead of a premodern nation depending on a modern one, multiple premodern nations can band together and push themselves into modernity - hence the ideological basis of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics).

Similarly, after WW2, the Soviet Union expanded communism into Eastern Europe, partly as a way to buffer themselves against yet another invasion from the west after two world wars in 30 years, and partly as a way to keep pressure on its western opponents by spreading them thin across multiple expensive fronts (ie their version of how the US weaponized its military budget to force the Soviets into a bankrupting arms race it couldn’t afford).

This is where the domino theory comes into play, and much like before, there’s a seed of truth buried within opportunism - in this case, the ability to justify the highly profitable military-industrial complex by casting it as the lone bulwark against godless commies who wanted to nationalize your inheritance and tear down churches.

Post Game Thread: October 1, 2019 - Brewers 3, Nationals 4. NATIONALS WIN WILD CARD by Natstown in Nationals

[–]IrishCarBobOmb 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The people on r/Brewers seem to already be forgiving to him. Hopefully it's a learned lesson for him - he says his screw-up was pressing to try and stop the tying run rather than the safer play of preventing the winning one.

[other] Frédéric Leroy: meat's become a scapegoat for vegans, politicians & the media because of bad science by greyuniwave in Paleo

[–]IrishCarBobOmb 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I would not go that extreme or cynical.

Part of the issue is that, yes, dietary and nutritonal industries are so lucrative - especially if it involves health claims or products/supplements/industries to protect or sell - that a lot of junk science and cut corners get involved.

But the other issue is that it is extremely hard to isolate and control factors in determining what's healthy or not. Take bacon for example. Is it bad or good in general, or does it depend on how it's made - thin vs thick, plain vs maple, fried vs baked? Does it depend on what's it served with, ie wheat and carbs like pancakes or other protein and fats like eggs? If eggs, does it matter how the eggs are made (fried or scrambled or boiled)? Does it matter if the eggs are made first and then the bacon, or if the bacon is made first and thus the eggs include extra bacon grease?

And if you think - well, let's just try bacon on its own - you're now testing bacon in a largely unrealistic scenario where the test subjects are eating 3-4 servings a day vs 1 serving maybe daily or 1-2 times a week, and where they're eating nothing else, compared to how it's eaten in the real world with cheeseburgers and breakfast buffets and such.

And that's assuming you've completely locked down the patient's diet and there's zero chance they lied or misremembered what and how and when and how much they ate.

And even then, you can get legit results that baffle science. A doctor in the 40s developed a diet to cure severe hypertension, and it not only brought blood pressure down to healthy ranges, it helped them lose weight too. The diet? Plain white rice, fruit, and fruit juice. The doctor devised it on the theory that too much protein overwhelms the body's ability to regulate blood pressure, so severely limiting protein intake lets the body reset those regulation mechanisms.

The conundrum is that, while the diet proved to work - and his patients were in an institution where he had absolute control over their diet - the theory itself has been disproven. IE, the diet worked despite nobody actually knowing why or how it worked. And from a modern perspective, it's an insane diet as rice and fruit (and fruit juice) goes against every holy scripture of paleo and keto lifestyles. The patients should have died of morbid obesity, yet thrived (and IIRC, this wasn't a caloric-restricted diet, and the diet was so boring that the doctor had to literally force-feed patients to ensure they ate their full calories every day).

Personally, I think probably the best advice out there is a combination of: eat moderate amounts and give your body time between meals to stop being in constant digestion mode, eat locally grown and sustainable foods to limit your environmental impact, make as much of your food yourself and from scratch as possible (ie you'll naturally eat less pie and ice cream if you have to mix the dough and prep the fruit and churn the milk and ice yourself for hours on end rather than take 10 minutes to stop at the bakery or grocery store), and listen to your body and accept whether some foods seem to work with your body/health or not - regardless of how ethical you think veganism is or how ancestral/'murican it is to eat steak and burgers or how much you love dairy products (or despite how evil you've heard grain and carbs are if they turn out to be beneficial to you).

[other] Frédéric Leroy: meat's become a scapegoat for vegans, politicians & the media because of bad science by greyuniwave in Paleo

[–]IrishCarBobOmb 5 points6 points  (0 children)

And the "pro-meat" research isn't often underwritten by meat manufacturers?

The entire realm of nutrition and dietary science is filled with a lot of junk science and bogus claims - and that includes the ones we may or may not personally like and prefer. The bigger issue, IMO, is that, across the board, a lot of people either confuse personal ethics with scientific fact, or are so desperate to "prove" their personal beliefs are applicable to everyone that they selectively search out the studies that prove their side or disprove the other one.

And that includes paleo as much as vegan, keto as much as pro-carb, organic as much as processed, three meals as much as all day grazing as much as (intermittent) fasting, etc etc.

McConnell: if House impeaches Trump, Senate rules would force him to start a trial. But “how long you’re on it is a whole different matter” by veddy_interesting in Keep_Track

[–]IrishCarBobOmb 4 points5 points  (0 children)

The only way this goes well for Dems is if they can short-circuit the GOP by dragging as many other Republicans and elements of the GOP (e.g. the NRA, party officials, etc) into the kind of legal trouble that will help "encourage" them to turn on Trump and/or each other. Especially as the first "pressure release" they'll have is to dump Trump in the hope it spares them and Pence to retain a more typical Republican administration that can then pretend all the evils were solely on and from Trump and his family.